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Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

SharpshooterTom

I'm just beginning to wonder about this because I've recently turned 28 (so I'm not exactly a kid anymore) and I've never been in a relationship, never kissed a girl, and and yes not surprisingly I'm still a virgin LOL. And whats more depressing is that I've never been remotely close in actually having any of those experiences!

If I am being hoenst I've been plagued with all sorts of social problems throughout my teenage years and adult life, social anxiety (putting people off me as if I smell of B.O.) which lead to me socially avoiding people (I felt I was so unappealing to people I felt I had no choice) and so a viscous cycle had then ensured. This continued throughout school and university to the point where I snapped and fell into deep depression and few years back (extremely low self esteem) I attempted suicide.

I got help though with therapy and CBT (I used to post in the depression thread in AH and people there were a great help!), so I'm ok now, I'm improving aspects of my life. But I've still not yet improved aspects of my social life greatly in any real way. Sure I'm not as socially anxious, and certainly not socially avoidant, but I still don't have any real friends. I get the impression I'm just not that appealing as a person and perhaps its the way its meant to be.

I mean in the 40 year old virgin, he at least he had a happy ending, unless I went to an escort, there's every chance I'm probably going to die this way! :eek:

Is it too self defeatist to suggest that some men, whether they like it or not, are destined to be alone for the rest of their lives? Is it too unrealistic for some us to contemplate a relationship?

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Wibbs

pwurple wrote: »

Pay no heed to the garbage about being a virgin being some kind of hindrance. Why people think that women want some sort of slutty guy that has slept with the whole town is beyond me. I have never been attracted to that kind of guy. It's an absolute turn-off.

I would say and again just my humble, that the "town bike" man is going to get more one night/fling type action, but may have difficulty with getting into a long term relationship. Like the opposite where the "town bike" woman gets plenty of attention but fewer will want her as an official girlfriend. Though because of the double standard he will still be ahead of her.

paleoperson

It's important to note that fertility and possibility of genetic defects aren't directly related in males. Male fertility does tend to go down for various reasons surrounding the sperm, but only mutations change the DNA of the sperm and may be passed to the new child.

diveout

Wibbs wrote: »

I would say and again just my humble, that the "town bike" man is going to get more one night/fling type action, but may have difficulty with getting into a long term relationship. Like the opposite where the "town bike" woman gets plenty of attention but fewer will want her as an official girlfriend. Though because of the double standard he will still be ahead of her.

Hmnnnn depends....there is a fine line between experienced and sleazy....

But I think this whole debate is a distraction. Yes some things might be easier for others, dating too, but that doesn't mean you can't do it too. It just means you have to go about it a different way, or you have to be more patient, or try harder, or find other ways. It actually doesn't matter whether or not something is easier for other people if it's something you yourself would like to achieve.

Aidric

Wibbs wrote: »

I didn't. Indeed I agree with the author(with the most boring voice ever) that most of the "self help" industry is a crock. It's one reason I can't stand the pickup artist BS. It gives false hope wrapped up in BS in exchange for money.

I limit my self help input to areas where results are actually realisable. ie I'll buy cooking books as they'll produce a tangible output. Not even sure if cooking books can be classified as self help.
No self help book will change your personality. If you adhere to a few bullet points in a self help book you are merely creating the illusion that you are a person you're not.

Wibbs wrote: »

Though I'd agree with your other points, I'd disagree here P. OK someone doesn't need to be the life and soul, but introverts have a much harder time of it, especially introverted men. A guy could have the most amazing life/soul/whatever, but if he doesn't let people know how can they find out? How can the same guy meet women if he doesn't engage with them?

Word. An introverted person will only serve to negate the environment necessary for fun and friendship to thrive.

Pug160

There are some pearls of wisdom being offered here - which makes for interesting reading. But make no mistake about it, it's a tough road ahead if the problems are mostly psychological. My situation is a lot milder than yours (and seemingly the average guy who's never had a girlfriend) as I've had sporadic sexual success and I'm not even all that awkward - just a bit shy and cynical.

My biggest downfall is that I lack charm. I'd put that at number two behind physical attractiveness in terms of importance - that's how highly rate it. Even a woman who is really into you physically will expect you to charm her a little bit - if you don't there is little chance of anything happening. You can improve though, as I have.

I ended up putting too much emphasis on looks and when it still wasn't having the desired effect it blew a few theories out of the water for me. Make yourself look good anyway though, as it is nice to be healthy and feel good about yourself. I'm in decent shape, eat a decent diet, use moisturisers, bio serums, buy clothes straight from Italy and all that jazz. I attract women initially but I'm still working on the charm. As Wibbs said, some people have lost very important years from their lives and are playing catch up.

paleoperson

The PUA is certainly a crock, there are entire websites and forums full of disgruntled people complaining about them. It is all about manipulation and being dishonest, and they are okay with that. The very essence of ethics seem lost on these people. Instead of being "with" your partner or potential partner, your thoughts are with what you read or heard about what you're "supposed" to do. Even if it "works" you're a cheat and a failure.

Some self-help books blur the lines between education and self-help. For example I bought two books on how to communicate effectively recently. I also bought a book on charisma a while ago, which looks quite good but I couldn't tell you whether it's really any benefit or not.

Sauve

Mod
To quote directly from the charter

"Discussion of Pick-Up-Artists (PUA) methods and techniques are not allowed on this forum."

Daveysil15

paddy1990 wrote: »

I was in town earlier and the amount of in shape guys with chubby girls was amazing.

This may come as a shock, but maybe, just maybe they were drawn to their personalities? I've seen just as many attractive women who are with guys below average in the looks department. I know a few models who are very tall and have boyfriends who are shorter.

Age is a huge factor for men than it is for women. Try picking up a 20 year old girl if you're 35. Meanwhile set up a dating profile with an average 35 year old womans pictures online and see how many 20 year old guys she can get (hint - alot)

Now this I would agree with. Having chatted to a lot of women of POF, some of which are pushing 40, they get a lot of messages from younger men, usually just guys looking to bang a MILF.

The OP wouldn't be in his position if he looked like a male model.

Well that's fairly obvious.

pwurple

Though I'd agree with your other points, I'd disagree here P. OK someone doesn't need to be the life and soul, but introverts have a much harder time of it, especially introverted men. A guy could have the most amazing life/soul/whatever, but if he doesn't let people know how can they find out? How can the same guy meet women if he doesn't engage with them?

I think you are possibly conflating being an introvert with having crippling insecurities.

Introverts usually engage very well with people on a one-on-one basis, but not great in crowds. Get stressed in situations like pubs, clubs, festivals, etc. Do well in coffee shops, university study areas, reading the paper on the bus, etc.

It's when you have insecurities AND are an introvert that you don't even open your mouth.

ancapailldorcha

pwurple wrote: »

I think you are possibly conflating being an introvert with having crippling insecurities.

Introverts usually engage very well with people on a one-on-one basis, but not great in crowds. Get stressed in situations like pubs, clubs, festivals, etc. Do well in coffee shops, university study areas, reading the paper on the bus, etc.

It's when you have insecurities AND are an introvert that you don't even open your mouth.

Nail meet head.

One way I've tried getting around my introversion was to become an organiser for the local Couchsurfing group. Unfortunately, I do struggle a bit in crowds. The only chap I knew down here before I moved is usually accompanied by a dozen complete stranger each time. Someone at work finds it difficult to believe that I see myself as introverted but like you say, fine one-to-one or in small groups but gets lost easily in a crowd.

paleoperson

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Now this I would agree with. Having chatted to a lot of women of POF, some of which are pushing 40, they get a lot of messages from younger men, usually just guys looking to bang a MILF.

Isn't that the way of online dating in general though? One girl to a few guys. And a lot of the girls are just having a laugh... or maybe that's just me.

Daveysil15

paleoperson wrote: »

Isn't that the way of online dating in general though? One girl to a few guys. And a lot of the girls are just having a laugh... or maybe that's just me.

Well yes men do outnumber the women but the point was even older women get a lot of messages, sometimes from younger men, whereas the opposite would rarely happen. And what do you mean the girls are just having a laugh?

paleoperson

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Well yes men do outnumber the women but the point was even older women get a lot of messages, sometimes from younger men, whereas the opposite would rarely happen. And what do you mean the girls are just having a laugh?

Ah come on. The males are generally expected to make the first move in the online world just like in the real world. They do it a lot more often than females. That's why "the opposite would rarely happen".

Daveysil15

paleoperson wrote: »

Ah come on. The males are generally expected to make the first move in the online world just like in the real world. They do it a lot more often than females. That's why "the opposite would rarely happen".

I never said anything to the contrary.

Wibbs

pwurple wrote: »

I think you are possibly conflating being an introvert with having crippling insecurities.

Yea I probably am PW, what with being a thundering gobshíte at the best of times and all.

:D But yep I defo take your point. Even so an extrovert bloke will generally have more options. For a start he'll engage with a "crowd" more, so is more likely to expose himself(missus!) to more people/women.

Actually just thinking more on this earlier... the men I've known with the most "success with the ladies" as a consistent trait had one big thing in common. It wasn't looks, nor money, nor status and all that stuff. Yep individually they might have had one or the other, or not as the case may be, but overall the biggest trait they demonstrated was they engaged with way more people, both men and women. They weren't always obvious extroverts either - one or two I can think of were quite quiet in a group - but they were constantly engaging with new people all the time. Basically their success boiled down to a numbers game. IMH that's the one area the PUA gobshítes may actually have it right. They push the idea of constantly approaching women = success. The numbers game.

The second trait was they didn't seem to "Give a Fúck"(tm). In the sense that social rejection didn't bother them nearly so much when it concerned strangers or folks they just met(but like anyone they would show the pain of rejection with people they were close to). They sometimes started out from a position of insecurity but rejection with the odd success made them more practiced in social interaction and more secure after a while. They focussed on the successes. I have found that shy folks, men and women, tend to feel the sting of rejection from a complete stranger nearly as much as they might if it comes from a close friend. The rejection itself hurts, more than the context kinda thing. More sensitive to rejection in general, if I'm explaining it right?

As far as atraction goes the subject is beyond complex and each one of us can likely point to a relationship(s) we know or have known and go WT everliving F is up with that Ted.

. IMH each one of us has a cone of attraction we transmit out to the world. Someone like a rockstar or supermodel has a feckin ginormous cone projecting out, but we all, men and women, have one. Within that cone the folks we attract can vary quite a bit, even if our individual range is apparently small as far as outsiders opinions may go. This comes back to the numbers game. The more people you engage with the more people you're likely to encounter that will fit into that cone of attraction for you. Context comes into it too, it can increase access. IE an average enough looking bloke will have way more chances with fashion models who may be considered "out of bounds" to many men, if he's a photographer, or a photographers assistant. Access.

TL;DR? I'd put it this way, IME the man who gets rejected a lot, but keeps on going and chalking it up to "shíte happens", is usually the man who has more success overall. He's more likely to meet the woman that blows his mind, because he's preselecting for them by getting rejected by the ones who have no interest and concentrating on those who do and he's simply learning the social thang along the way.

Now in fairness I am basing this on the manwhores I've known and it's not a lifestyle I would recommend nor condone, but they do get "results", so looking at the why they get results(minus the BS) might help the genuine chap to approach things in a slightly different way and get a far healthier insight into things and increase his options with genuine women in a genuine way. Kinda like if you're a bit heavy and want to lose a few pounds, if you copied a skinny persons diet and activity levels to the letter you'd likely lose weight. OK odd comparison but it is me FFS. Give me some leeway here.

Oh as an aside none, not one of the manwhore types I know and have known ever considered internet dating as a viable option. If the subject came up they saw it as too restrictive and I would tend to agree, unless you're like paddy1990 who is apparently "very good looking" and under 30... Otherwise it's too skewed towards the visual for both men and women, but because there are more men involved the bias is agin them and they guys are more likely to encounter women who need attention/validation they get from loads of messages because they're bottle blonde. It isn't a great environment for many women either if they're not obviously photogenic*.

Jayzuz another long one from me. The actress is now getting tired of the bishop's shít.

I type fast what can I tell ya.

*I saw this in a real world example. Many moons ago a friend brought a mate of hers along to a night out. This mate was a model. When she showed up a few of the men were "ehhh... really?". She was attractive enough but not much above background and quite bland in the face. My friend said wait until the pics of the night come back(this will tell you how long ago it was

). And she was right. This "bland" looking lass shone out like a light in the group photos.

paddy1990

paleoperson wrote: »

Ah come on. The males are generally expected to make the first move in the online world just like in the real world. They do it a lot more often than females. That's why "the opposite would rarely happen".

Women send the first message quite often in fact.

If you were to ask any woman on an online dating site, she will definitely say she has sent a first message quite a few times.

The caveat is that you have to be very good looking. Otherwise, you are the one who has to make the first move.

If you actually have to approach women at all, you're playing the numbers/rejection game which is a dismal game to play.

paddy1990

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh as an aside none, not one of the manwhore types I know and have known ever considered internet dating as a viable option. If the subject came up they saw it as too restrictive and I would tend to agree, unless you're like paddy1990 who is apparently "very good looking" and under 30...

You need to accept the logical outlook which is that women sign up to the likes of Tinder and POF because they are looking for a guy and the top guys on these sites are the ones who get tons of offers.

These social media sites are literally a godsend for the good looking guys.

Meanwhile the average/below average guys have to go out and "go through rejection" and so on. Feck that rejection sh*te! I'll just check my Tinder/POF messages and organize dates from there!

Bafucin

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't know why but I fail to see the attraction behind people like Georgia Salpa, Cheryl Cole, etc.. I just prefer the idea of dating someone for a while who has interests, hobbies and aspirations as opposed to some model just for bragging rights.

Here here, if she has nothing going on upstairs or is a bitch I can't see why anyone goes near them. Not unless they are desperate. There ARE beautiful women with more going on for them. They usually see past the guys looking for a trophy types too.

Georgia Salpa has zero personality. Yes she is hot but after seeing her on big brother I couldn't imagine she has many friends. She has zero going on upstairs, seems quite boring and not very warm.

I don't go for the dark sultry look but I can imagine many men do go for her just for that, and the notoriety she has.

Looks in a girl are important to me, I have my own type but she has to be kind intelligent etc. I like treating people like well rounded individuals who have feelings. In order for that they need to actually have them.

paleoperson

paddy1990, I don't know why you're quoting my message. You're not telling me or (I think) anyone else anything they didn't know already. There is no problem with my message or any reason for you to quote it there.

The only thing new you said was "These social media sites are literally a godsend for the good looking guys.", which is highly speculative and imo false.

edit: oh you also said "If you were to ask any woman on an online dating site, she will definitely say she has sent a first message quite a few times.", which is definitely false. Some of the ten girls will say they have hardly ever or never sent the first message.

Bafucin

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Didn't you just saw above that a 35 year old would have no chance attracting a girl of 20?

I would not feel comfortable dating a girl under 25.

I think a lot of girls under 25 a lot less sexual than many men realize. They don't like to be touched too soon. It is a combination of hormones and inexperience. They are less likely to have had relationship experience and can feel emotionally vulnerable. Older men tend to make them feel more uncomfortable sexually and it seems sleazy to them.

I think they tend to see men around 30 as being a lot more sexually driven than they are.

Generally anything more than a 5 yr age gap is driven by the individual personalities involved and is unique. Otherwise it is not usual.

Obviously when the affection is genuine that is a unique relationship. But in the media you see the situation when it is not. Marrying for money is earning it the hard way. But I suppose Dolly Birds never learn. I don't know how the men with them tolerate them. I understand sleeping with them but not a relationship. Who wants to be used?

Kobe

I can totally feel you OP.

I'm a 3+years old virgin. In fact I was going to have sex with my then new girlfriend a few years ago, she saw my dxxk and said it's tiny, it was very hurtful that she had no idea how bad she hurts me.

I usually have no problem talking to women, in fact 3 of my close friends are females, they always say that I'm a funny guy (funny haha) and wonder why I'm single for that long. but they are either married or have long term boyfriend. I'm an average looking guy, when I start talking to girls, they always being friendly and very talkative, until I start asking for their number or asking them for a coffee sometimes, they'll suddenly change their attitude, the worst one told me that she didn't drink coffee and walk away. The most considerate one was a girl that got a birthday present from me, she told me "I don't need to do that" right after saying thank you.

Maybe I'm not a smooth talker or I act nervous but I didn't realize, but I kinda feel very tired after so many attempts and get nothing back.

I tried online dating too, I understand online dating is a number game for men (especially if for those that are not ridiculously good looking). I read countless articles to get the good ideas on how to create a good profile and more importantly, how to write message to girls online. I mean, I wrote at least 200 messages in one year, and I got fewer than 10 replies, we finally chatting (and they said I'm funny, that I really tried hard to be), they will never reply me in 2 days the longest even though we were still chatting fine (at least I think) the night before.

I don't really go out drinking so I can see my social network is smaller. I'm not usually that negative but man, I feel tired of being trying all the time.

Bafucin

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually just thinking more on this earlier... the men I've known with the most "success with the ladies" as a consistent trait had one big thing in common. It wasn't looks, nor money, nor status and all that stuff. Yep individually they might have had one or the other, or not as the case may be, but overall the biggest trait they demonstrated was they engaged with way more people, both men and women. The rejection itself hurts, more than the context kinda thing. More sensitive to rejection in general, if I'm explaining it right?......

*I saw this in a real world example. Many moons ago a friend brought a mate of hers along to a night out. This mate was a model. When she showed up a few of the men were "ehhh... really?". She was attractive enough but not much above background and quite bland in the face. My friend said wait until the pics of the night come back(this will tell you how long ago it was ). And she was right. This "bland" looking lass shone out like a light in the group photos.

The last girl I dated earlier this year was a stunner. I am decent looking but not amazing. I got quite offended in the end with people's reaction. 'Eh she is with you ...why exactly??..you must work hard for that mate etc'...'or she must be crazy'. She might have been crazy but she wasn't nasty crazy.

Being around her I noticed men tended to 'lose it' around her and turn into awkward messes. It was harder for her to interact with them even if she was trying when they fell apart. And some compensated by acting the ****.

I think I had a pretty unsheltered upbringing probably to an unhealthy extent but whilst it has left me with other issues it made it easier for me to get on with people regardless of who they are. School of hard knocks etc.

I talked about it to her and she said one guy she had dated years ago couldn't get past it even after a few weeks. He would admit to her that her looks made him incredibly nervous even after dating her a while. They couldn't develop intimately, she never saw HER. She was a nice person with her own thoughts and eccentricities. She had her own strengths and insecurities He never saw who she was which was the best part to be honest. I think that's the key. Can you see who someone really is. Everyone who is decent wants someone to REALLY see them. Its the bitches who hide behind layers of make-up. A nice girl wants her personality to shine out after a while and for a guy to see that as much as her hair etc.

Cold hearted bitches will push themselves to the front of the line for the Donald Trumps of this world. In the end they will end up with people like themselves. I'm not missing out because they over look me I have had a lucky escape.

Bitterness over those types of women is stupid.

diveout

Wibbs is right, in that extroverts get over more in life in general. And sensitive types will feel it more... the rejection.

Well, having grown up in an industry full of sensitive people who have to endure a lot of rejection, the best thing to do is use the rejection as a motivator. Every rejection note you get, hang it on the wall.

Fail 7 times, get up 8. It's the only way to get around it. There really is no other way.

pwurple

Well, for a start you can't change being an introvert. It's who you are. So saying it's no good is not much use to OP.

I guess it's also how you define 'success with the ladies'. For an introvert, success is most likely finding one partner who you are happy with, rather than barrelling through dozens of women.

Wibbs

paleoperson wrote: »

The only thing new you said was "These social media sites are literally a godsend for the good looking guys.", which is highly speculative and imo false.

Nail on the head PP, it is indeed speculative. I wonder why...

Kobe wrote: »

I can totally feel you OP.

I'm a 3+years old virgin. In fact I was going to have sex with my then new girlfriend a few years ago, she saw my dxxk and said it's tiny, it was very hurtful that she had no idea how bad she hurts me.

Jesus, she said that? What an absolute failure as a human being. Some people are just wastes of air K.

Bafucin wrote: »

I talked about it to her and she said one guy she had dated years ago couldn't get past it even after a few weeks. He would admit to her that her looks made him incredibly nervous even after dating her a while.

Not that unusual to hear that kinda thing B, which is kinda mad. Though clearly a major self confidence issue in blokes who think like that. I mean if someone is with you, they're with you. End of. her looks are pretty immaterial. The world is full of stunners. If she's a pain in the arse her looks as a selling point will only compensate for so long and you will get tired of looking at her.

pwurple wrote: »

Well, for a start you can't change being an introvert. It's who you are. So saying it's no good is not much use to OP.

I disagree P. IMHO you can change it. I've seen it happen. Again IMH there's a confusion between the introvert/extrovert and those with social fear issues. I know extroverts by nature that have social fear, but it's well hidden behind being the life and soul vibe and/or alcohol, so goes unnoticed. Equally I know people who are introverted by nature who have social confidence. You can learn more social confidence to feel more comfortable in social interaction. Humans after all are social animals. It's what we do and it's how we came to be where we are.

Today we're seeing more individuals, particularly men it seems, who lack social confidence and all the issues that may stem from that. Why? Today with the massive shift in communications it is easier for an individual to withdraw and yet at the same time appear to be engaging with the wider world. 50, hell 30 years ago this was much more difficult. The individual would be more likely to be noticed as "missing from life". Growing up I knew a few lads who went through an adolescent "phase" of painting their bedroom black and listening to Smiths records.

The moody teenager vibe. They grew out of it. They were kinda forced to. They had no other outlets that would allow them to continue on that path for very long. Today the same kid can go online in the same room and find thousands of others like him which supports that phase for much longer.

Put it another way, if the OP hadn't had the uprooting in his early teens, chances are he'd be a different person today. He might still be an introvert, but he might have more social confidence

I guess it's also how you define 'success with the ladies'. For an introvert, success is most likely finding one partner who you are happy with, rather than barrelling through dozens of women.

Oh I agree P. My point was that if someone is having difficulty with something, look at those who don't and see what they may do differently. I was defo not suggesting anyone emulate that kinda lifestyle, god no, merely take the bits that might be useful from it so that they may find what they are looking for.

Plus the more people you meet and engage with the more you learn what you actually want and is good for you(and them) and the more likely the chance of meeting the right person, rather than the first person that happens to come along who says yes. Sure you might get lucky with that first person, but...

diveout

^ I think we are using the word introvert with different understanding??

It has not much to do with self esteem or confidence or anything like that. I am very introverted and what it means is I need an enormous amount of time alone, that I get over stimulated and overwhelmed quite easily, I don't react to stimulants well...like caffeine for example. It takes space for me to process what is going on.

I need contact with others, but if that contact is not fluid and easy that generally it exhausts me to make the efforts with people who I don't have that flow with. Small talk is so enervating I need to excuse myself...it can appear rude.

Extroverts get so much energy out of social groups and other people, whereas for introverts it can be very taxing.

Wibbs

I dunno D, maybe. IMH the introvert/extrovert model is too black and white and tends towards looking at the extremes at either end. Outside those extremes most people I've known were introvert/extrovert depending on context and most people have some sort of a balance.

In the context of confidence you have a balance that suits you. You have social confidence so you can choose when to engage or not. I'm suggesting that in some cases - and I'd reckon it's the case with some of the chaps on this thread - "introversion" is an outside force driven by lack of social confidence. Without this social confidence and experience they don't have the choices you have. Some of the guys may actually be extroverts by nature but are trapped because of life circumstances and lack of social confidence.

Most people on first meeting me assume I'm a full on extrovert and yes I am/can be in social situations, however I really need my me time and lots of it. However I am socially confident so I can choose how I engage socially.

I suppose it boils down to this; Outside of the introvert/extrovert label, if you have social confidence and awareness you have a choice in how you interact socially. If you are lacking social confidence and awareness you don't have that choice and IMHO social confidence and awareness can be learned.

*EDIT* I hated small talk when I was younger. "eee the weathers awful/there's a bug going around y'know" etc Drove me bloody mad TBH. However I realised that the majority use it as a social oil to lubricate social interactions and who the hell was I to dictate to the majority? Who the hell was I to appear rude to people who weren't being rude to me and more were actively trying to engage with me in a friendly manner by observing social conventions, even if the method was banal to me? I thought sod that, there'e enough narcissism in the world I don't need to be adding to the pile. So basically I learned how to do it over time. After a while it became second nature and it does grease the social wheels on a daily basis and I am far less likely to offend someone who is not being offensive to me. Funny enough I never learned and I still can't do it over the phone. I'm all business there.

Kobe

Wibbs wrote:

Jesus, she said that? What an absolute failure as a human being. Some people are just wastes of air K.

Yes, the sex didn't finish too because of this.

Remmy

diveout wrote: »

^ I think we are using the word introvert with different understanding??

It has not much to do with self esteem or confidence or anything like that. I am very introverted and what it means is I need an enormous amount of time alone, that I get over stimulated and overwhelmed quite easily, I don't react to stimulants well...like caffeine for example. It takes space for me to process what is going on.

I need contact with others, but if that contact is not fluid and easy that generally it exhausts me to make the efforts with people who I don't have that flow with. Small talk is so enervating I need to excuse myself...it can appear rude.

Extroverts get so much energy out of social groups and other people, whereas for introverts it can be very taxing.

This describes me very well. I'm am quite sociable and good with groups but I do need time alone to recharge. I noticed some folks are quite content to be around people every minute of the day. My alone time doesn't need to be much, 30-1 hour to listen to music/ go for a run.

ancapailldorcha

Bafucin wrote: »

I would not feel comfortable dating a girl under 25.

Obviously when the affection is genuine that is a unique relationship. But in the media you see the situation when it is not. Marrying for money is earning it the hard way. But I suppose Dolly Birds never learn. I don't know how the men with them tolerate them. I understand sleeping with them but not a relationship. Who wants to be used?

My point was that a lot of women prefer older men. I might have done a better job of articulating it if I'd used a 38 year old guy with a 26 year old woman as an example instead. I completely take your point though.
Regarding the latter half of your post, I can't imagine that people in those situations spend much time together. Sugar Daddy is likely to be in meetings or playing golf or whatever most days while his trophy wife spends his money and meets her friends. I imagine, and this is strictly IMO that there's next to no intimacy beyond the occasional ride here and there.

Bafucin wrote: »

Here here, if she has nothing going on upstairs or is a bitch I can't see why anyone goes near them. Not unless they are desperate. There ARE beautiful women with more going on for them. They usually see past the guys looking for a trophy types too.

Looks in a girl are important to me, I have my own type but she has to be kind intelligent etc. I like treating people like well rounded individuals who have feelings. In order for that they need to actually have them.

Again, imperfect wording on my part. When I mentioned Georgia Salpa and Cheryl Cole, I was referring to the personalities we see on TV, in magazines, etc. Now, young Cheryl may spend her time reading SF Masterworks, playing Scrabble and solving Rubix Cubes. I doubt it but it is possible. I've not watched CBB so I'll take your word on that.
Personally, I wouldn't see a point dating someone if you couldn't hold a conversation. So many women on POF will list nothing about themselves. Since I moved here in January, I've seen three profiles that caught my interest. Plenty of pretty girls to be sure, but what do I use as an icebreaker. One of the three mentioned enjoying Breaking Bad and a trip to Thailand she'd been on alone. I used these as icebreakers, alas to no avail. I could go to the pub, but then I get to deal with crowds.