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BER : How is it measured

househero

Got a crap BER, D1 (232KW)

The advice is poor, really general, like they looked at the house on google street view and copy and pasted the recommendations from a standard set.

I want to Maximise my spend to improve the energy efficiency (who doesnt)

Is there a copy of the math used to calculate the buildings energy rating so I can see where to concentrate my money?

For example, what direct energy impact would changing the 16 ceiling downlights for LEDs have? (most simple to calculate, i think)

(I can post some of the bad bits from the report if you would like to read it/advise me)

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sydthebeat

First thing to understand is that, unless you asked for an specific energy upgrade report, the 'advisory report' that comes with the BER certification is automatically generated where the assessor has no input into (other than actually choosing which bits to leave out). So you are correct, its crap, its uninformative and confusing and not worth the paper its written on IMHO.

its easy to find the information you are requesting, however its in the hands of the assessor.

if you are looking to reach a specific rating, or have a specific amount of money you want to spend, a good construction-based assessor should be able to provide you with an upgrade specification and a cost / benefit analysis.

househero

sydthebeat wrote: »

a good construction-based assessor should be able to provide you with an upgrade specification and a cost / benefit analysis.

How much is that typically? The house is 3 storey 3000 sq ft

I was expecting a more specific report, saying stuff like, we recommend changing X to a more efficient model.

It wasnt a number we were aiming for, just making the most benefit from the least money.

The house doesnt have a central heating system in it at the moment, so they marked it down as 'Electric' 100% efficiency. We are going to put in an oil burning central heating system. Will this make the BER rating higher or lower??? (The bills would be a LOT cheaper than electric!)

brianki

You should have a look at the link below, the bottom download link is to the Excel spreadsheet that is the basis/backup of the full software package.

seai.ie/Your_Building/EPBD/DEAP/

The data entry is quite involved, not very complex but a lot of data none the less, but everything you would need to BER assess your own home is there and freely downloadable.

You just cant print out a new cert

househero

brianki wrote: »

You should have a look at the link below, the bottom download link is to the Excel spreadsheet that is the basis/backup of the full software package.

seai.ie/Your_Building/EPBD/DEAP/

The data entry is quite involved, not very complex but a lot of data none the less, but everything you would need to BER assess your own home is there and freely downloadable.

You just cant print out a new cert

^
LEGEND>

For anyone in the future... I got redirected to http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/EPBD/DEAP/Download/

sydthebeat

househero wrote: »

How much is that typically? The house is 3 storey 3000 sq ft

I was expecting a more specific report, saying stuff like, we recommend changing X to a more efficient model.

It wasnt a number we were aiming for, just making the most benefit from the least money.

The house doesnt have a central heating system in it at the moment, so they marked it down as 'Electric' 100% efficiency. We are going to put in an oil burning central heating system. Will this make the BER rating higher or lower??? (The bills would be a LOT cheaper than electric!)

firstly a new condensing boiler with a full 7 day time and temperature zoned system will increase your BER significantly from a D1.
the assessor had no choice but to input an electrical space heating system, there are many, many conventions in the process that may seem illogical and counter intuitive.. but thems the rules.

is this a new build or an existing?
if existing, what age house?

also, i assume you simply request a "BER cert" from the assessor??

sydthebeat

househero wrote: »

^
LEGEND>

For anyone in the future... I got redirected to http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/EPBD/DEAP/Download/

just a word of warning....
heres the 140 page users manual to go along with the software.

you need to know and understand it intimately to get the correct result.

househero

sydthebeat wrote: »

just a word of warning....
heres the 140 page users manual to go along with the software.

you need to know and understand it intimately to get the correct result.

Thanks Syd...
Haha expect a few new threads from me after a weekend of reading.

Its written very straight forward. This thing is brilliant, why dont they direct you to this directly on the BER. Much more clear now.

househero

sydthebeat wrote: »

firstly a new condensing boiler with a full 7 day time and temperature zoned system will increase your BER significantly from a D1.
the assessor had no choice but to input an electrical space heating system, there are many, many conventions in the process that may seem illogical and counter intuitive.. but thems the rules.

is this a new build or an existing?
if existing, what age house?

also, i assume you simply request a "BER cert" from the assessor??

5 years old, 300mm cavity wall, insulation plus cavity, nap plaster finish on plans but BER assessment refers to 'Timber and block construction' . Ground floor power floated Concrete on Floor Insulation on min 225mm sand binded hardcore. 1st floor 25mm Tounge and groove, joists at 400mm centres with solid bridging at 1350mm.

The BER was provided by the Estate Agent, the house has no internal doors, and the Boiler, Cylinder, (open fire) back boiler pump and radiators were stolen. (not in during assessment)

Wanted to put in a condensing boiler plus 3 zones. (most used living space > Not Used much space and finally Hot water) <is that right?

Change the (nearly 20) Halogen spotlights for LED. Put in additional loft insulation in the cavity (between 3rd floor room and 40 degree pitched roof, as some is 'missing')

The windows are expensive double glazed sash type (plastic) I was surprised to see the BER assessor recommend changing them... Could I post a few things up I was surprised to see, to get your Pro opinion?

sydthebeat

househero wrote: »

Could I post a few things up I was surprised to see, to get your Pro opinion?

Like i say..... that report would have been automatically generated by the software and the assessor would have had NO input into it.
The automatically generated report can read as illogical unless you have a prior understanding of the conventions.
for example, if there is a stove in the living room.... the report will say that the house has no chimney. Now, everyone looking at the house will clearly see that it HAS a chimney. This issue arises because the assessment procedure considers flues over 200mm in diameter as a "chimney", and under 200mm diameter as an "open flue".... and thats just one simple example.

im not at all surprised at the BER you've gotten (so no need to be disappointed

), the estate agent needed it to put the house on the market... and the assessor simply did as required.
as there is basically no space or hot water heating systems, the default fuel is electricity which must be included...thus the crap rating.

if you do work and uses accrediated products, to current regulations, you could reach the B band.

househero

sydthebeat wrote: »

Like i say..... that report would have been automatically generated by the software and the assessor would have had NO input into it.
The automatically generated report can read as illogical unless you have a prior understanding of the conventions.
for example, if there is a stove in the living room.... the report will say that the house has no chimney. Now, everyone looking at the house will clearly see that it HAS a chimney. This issue arises because the assessment procedure considers flues over 200mm in diameter as a "chimney", and under 200mm diameter as an "open flue".... and thats just one simple example.

im not at all surprised at the BER you've gotten (so no need to be disappointed ), the estate agent needed it to put the house on the market... and the assessor simply did as required.
as there is basically no space or hot water heating systems, the default fuel is electricity which must be included...thus the crap rating.

if you do work and uses accrediated products, to current regulations, you could reach the B band.

The bit that I was concerned about is the wall insulation spec'd on the plans... only 65mm with a cavity. Doesnt sound a lot to me.

Part of the floor area in this dwelling has a U-Value of less than 0.6 and greater
than 0.25. Is that right for an insulated concrete floor? It was wooden floors and marbel in the hall/kitchen, could put carpet in the living room, office and dining room I guess

Part of the roof insulation in this dwelling has a U-Value of less than 0.4 and greater
than 0.16. Some one stole the easy to get to insulation immediately next to the expansion tank (that they also stole) in the roof cavity. The rest is still there. Prob need to replace around 20 sq m of insulation.

Part of the wall area in this dwelling has a U-Value of less than 0.6 and greater
than 0.27. I think I read in the plans that 65mm insulation was used in the walls.

sydthebeat

househero wrote: »

The bit that I was concerned about is the wall insulation spec'd on the plans... only 65mm with a cavity. Doesnt sound a lot to me.

Part of the floor area in this dwelling has a U-Value of less than 0.6 and greater
than 0.25. Is that right for an insulated concrete floor? It was wooden floors and marbel in the hall/kitchen, could put carpet in the living room, office and dining room I guess

Part of the roof insulation in this dwelling has a U-Value of less than 0.4 and greater
than 0.16. Some one stole the easy to get to insulation immediately next to the expansion tank (that they also stole) in the roof cavity. The rest is still there. Prob need to replace around 20 sq m of insulation.

Part of the wall area in this dwelling has a U-Value of less than 0.6 and greater
than 0.27. I think I read in the plans that 65mm insulation was used in the walls.

as far as the assessment goes, whats written on plans means nothing for an existing house......

househero

sydthebeat wrote: »

as far as the assessment goes, whats written on plans means nothing for an existing house......

Sorry I dont understand?

Do you mean they dont go by the plans?

If thats the case how do the know how much insulation is in the wall? Can I check???

sydthebeat

househero wrote: »

Sorry I dont understand?

Do you mean they dont go by the plans?

If thats the case how do the know how much insulation is in the wall? Can I check???

no they dont, they have to go by an non intrusive survey of the existing house.

if they cannot see and measure the actual insulation, they have to use default u values offered.

househero

sydthebeat wrote: »

no they dont, they have to go by an non intrusive survey of the existing house.

if they cannot see and measure the actual insulation, they have to use default u values offered.

O ok. Makes sense. You know a hell of a lot about this, props to you sir.

Would you know if a 300mm cavity block wall, 65mm insualtion and 35mm cavity would have a higher or lower U value than the standard used in the BER???

Written on the BER as...
U-Value of less than 0.6 and greater than 0.27 [For the walls]

Or is there too many variables like the type/brand of insulation used. The house is very well spec'd with granite sills, door surround, sash windows. I would be surprised if they skimped on insulation, but maybe they did.

sydthebeat

that would have been standard 5 years ago when the minimum u value for a wall was 0.27

the u value depends on the whole make up of the wall however, including the density of the blocks, the finishes, the wall ties etc.
the assessor most likely used the default.

MOTM

sydthebeat wrote: »

no they dont, they have to go by an non intrusive survey of the existing house.

if they cannot see and measure the actual insulation, they have to use default u values offered.

Not quite. Documentary evidence, receipts, invoices etc also accepted where insulation not accessible on site. See DEAP survey guide for info.