The Anti-Austerity Crowd

mickydoomsux wrote: »

"Money raped"?

Just nonsense.

Ah, what's the point, everything that is said is nonsense to you.

Anyway, best wishes Micky. I'm not the one to argue over trivial things.

Bruthal

Santa Cruz wrote: »

The magic money tree of course.

Well to government ministers, and particularly to their personal finances, they do indeed exist in this country.

They grow money-trees as they go along out of taxpayers pockets, and each individual tree every year grows stronger and higher in effect of more baby money-trees.

jackofalltrades

Grayson wrote: »

If they brought in a third tax bracket of say 50% on everything over 200k I'd be ok with it.

People are already paying roughly that rate when you combine PAYE,PRSI and the USC.
The only difference is that it kicks in at €32,800, instead of €200,000.

Keith16 wrote:

No country has ever taxed its way out of a recession.

I hear this said a lot. We're not trying to tax our way out of a recession. We're trying to tax our way out of a massive current budget deficit.

darkpagandeath wrote:

One of the options to the IMF when they came here was to Burn the unsecured bondholders. They chose Austerity.

The IMF were on our side during the bailout negotiations.
They put forward a proposal to impose a haircut of €30 billion on unsecured bondholders.

Obviously, money does not come from 'money trees', but can those speaking of 'money tree's as if they are making some kind of intelligible point, have a go at explaining where they think money comes-from/is-created?

KyussBishop wrote: »

Obviously, money does not come from 'money trees', but can those speaking of 'money tree's as if they are making some kind of intelligible point, have a go at explaining where they think money comes-from/is-created?

Well it's not backed up by gold anymore one could say it's made up out of thin air and only worth anything if you think it is. :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvRAqR2pAgw

KyussBishop wrote: »

Obviously, money does not come from 'money trees', but can those speaking of 'money tree's as if they are making some kind of intelligible point, have a go at explaining where they think money comes-from/is-created?

The money that banks create isn’t the paper money that bears the logo of the government-owned Bank of England. It’s the electronic deposit money that flashes up on the screen when you check your balance at an ATM. Right now, this money (bank deposits) makes up over 97% of all the money in the economy. Only 3% of money is still in that old-fashioned form of real cash that you can touch.

Banks can create money through the accounting they use when they make loans. The numbers that you see when you check your account balance are just accounting entries in the banks’ computers. These numbers are a ‘liability’ or IOU from your bank to you. But by using your debit card or internet banking, you can spend these IOUs as though they were the same as £10 notes.

By creating these electronic IOUs, banks can effectively create a substitute for money.
The following video from the Bank of England explains how money is created by commercial banks...

mickydoomsux

Bongalongherb wrote: »

The money that banks create isn’t the paper money that bears the logo of the government-owned Bank of England. It’s the electronic deposit money that flashes up on the screen when you check your balance at an ATM. Right now, this money (bank deposits) makes up over 97% of all the money in the economy. Only 3% of money is still in that old-fashioned form of real cash that you can touch.

Banks can create money through the accounting they use when they make loans. The numbers that you see when you check your account balance are just accounting entries in the banks’ computers. These numbers are a ‘liability’ or IOU from your bank to you. But by using your debit card or internet banking, you can spend these IOUs as though they were the same as £10 notes.

By creating these electronic IOUs, banks can effectively create a substitute for money.
The following video from the Bank of England explains how money is created by commercial banks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvRAqR2pAgw

So all money is basically Bitcoins?

mickydoomsux wrote: »

So all money is basically Bitcoins?

Man I need to get my hands on some of that Gold.

I need quantitative easing after seeing all that Gold Bullion.

Bongalongherb wrote: »

The money that banks create isn’t the paper money that bears the logo of the government-owned Bank of England. It’s the electronic deposit money that flashes up on the screen when you check your balance at an ATM. Right now, this money (bank deposits) makes up over 97% of all the money in the economy. Only 3% of money is still in that old-fashioned form of real cash that you can touch.

Banks can create money through the accounting they use when they make loans. The numbers that you see when you check your account balance are just accounting entries in the banks’ computers. These numbers are a ‘liability’ or IOU from your bank to you. But by using your debit card or internet banking, you can spend these IOUs as though they were the same as £10 notes.

By creating these electronic IOUs, banks can effectively create a substitute for money.
The following video from the Bank of England explains how money is created by commercial banks...

Exactly - money is created out of nothing (I even did a thread on that there

). Now, if the central bank loaned money to government at 0% interest (we're already at 0% interest already), so long as inflation isn't too high, isn't this a bit like the fabled 'magic money tree'?

People use the term, like it's some impossible idea, yet it seems the only thing stopping it is politics. Martin Wolf, leading editor of the Financial Times, explicitly advocates it.

KyussBishop wrote: »

Exactly - money is created out of nothing (I even did a thread on that there ). Now, if the central bank loaned money to government at 0% interest (we're already at 0% interest already), so long as inflation isn't too high, isn't this a bit like the fabled 'magic money tree'?

People use the term, like it's some impossible idea, yet it seems the only thing stopping it is politics. Martin Wolf, leading editor of the Financial Times, explicitly advocates it.

Careful now they would not be able to shout down anyone that does not agree with austerity if they actually knew money in it's current form is a magic money tree.

Cuttlefish

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

And good for them.

We are all trying to get richer.

And how much richer are you?

Or are we looking at this wrong, our wealth should not be measured in financial terms!!

:P

comongethappy

I haven't read the whole thread.

Has the infinite money tree been found yet?

Cuttlefish

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Because the country costs more to run than we are taking in.

That's why we need austerity.

We need austerity!?

You must enjoy looking at your payslip every week while Anglo Officials do community service and laugh at Joe Public!

comongethappy wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread.

Has the infinite money tree been found yet?

Yes they use it in the banks to make money, They wont share it though :pac:

Wacker The Attacker

My political philosophy is now to say the exact opposite of anything that Richard Boyd Barrett says

Cuttlefish

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

My political philosophy is now to say the exact opposite of anything that Richard Boyd Barrett says

So let the rich get rich and a two tier recovery continue?

I was just checking the sunspot activity of the sun just incase a solar flare hits the main computer banking system network. We don't want radiationally wiped HDD's do we. I had 4 million in my account and all of a sudden a solar flare wiped the computer holding my digits, now I have nothing, no compuher digits.

A scenario of time forwarded to 2016, Puff...my computer numerical's have vanished,

Watch out for that solar-flare folks, the one that can wipe out satt's and computers.

The solar storm of 1859, also known as the Carrington Event was a powerful geomagnetic solar storm in 1859 during solar cycle 10. A solar flare or coronal mass ejection hit Earth's magnetosphere and induced the largest known solar storm, which was observed and recorded by Richard C. Carrington.

comongethappy wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread.

Has the infinite money tree been found yet?

I'll know at 19:57 lotto time.

comongethappy

Cuttlefish wrote: »

We need austerity!?

You must enjoy looking at your payslip every week while Anglo Officials do community service and laugh at Joe Public!

Meh.... That's for courts to decide.
The budget deficit is not the responsibility of the high court.

In lieu of the infinite money tree being found though, spending must come down, revenue must increase.

There was no alternative.

comongethappy wrote: »

Meh.... That's for courts to decide.
The budget deficit is not the responsibility of the high court.

In lieu of the infinite money tree being found though, spending must come down, revenue must increase.

There was no alternative.

Are we missing the part The EU has in this setting the debt level of member states to prop up the Euro ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5UOZP78O-Q

KyussBishop wrote: »

Exactly - money is created out of nothing (I even did a thread on that there ). Now, if the central bank loaned money to government at 0% interest (we're already at 0% interest already), so long as inflation isn't too high, isn't this a bit like the fabled 'magic money tree'?

People use the term, like it's some impossible idea, yet it seems the only thing stopping it is politics. Martin Wolf, leading editor of the Financial Times, explicitly advocates it.

What is your opinion on this ?... I'm still trying to figure out some stuff...

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What is your opinion on this ?... I'm still trying to figure out some stuff...

I read up on it instead of watching it, and the 'thrive' stuff seems to basically be conspiracy theory stuff - be careful trying to read about the monetary system, because it's one of the most conspiracy-theory laden topics on the Internet.

hatrickpatrick

KyussBishop wrote: »

"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled" ~ John Kenneth Galbraith.

You can even show the Bank of England talking about this, yet the topic generates so much cognitive dissonance, that people will say the Bank of England is wrong rather than change their beliefs.

Any time I've brought this up, I've had a sizable number of people respond with "Man you're having a laugh, that's not ACTUALLY where money comes from....... right?"

I honestly reckon we'd solve a huge number of ridiculous problems if we managed to throw this system away, but the fact that so many don't know how it works makes people reluctant to mess with it I think.

Cazzoenorme

oceanman wrote: »

that would be fine except the rich just seem to get richer!

Does any have any stats showing that the "rich get richer and the poor get poorer"?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Any time I've brought this up, I've had a sizable number of people respond with "Man you're having a laugh, that's not ACTUALLY where money comes from....... right?"

I honestly reckon we'd solve a huge number of ridiculous problems if we managed to throw this system away, but the fact that so many don't know how it works makes people reluctant to mess with it I think.

Yea it's really odd, heh - I've not seen any other topic (outside of religion and woo), generate quite the same level of cognitive dissonance in people.

Show people the Bank of England stuff first, before anything else (well...describe it briefly, with that as backing), because they are an authority that can't be dismissed/ignored - you may still go up against a wall, but I'm finding it's turning people now, and gaining a lot of ground - in a year or two it might start to become quite a Big Deal, as more people learn.

Cazzoenorme wrote: »

Does any have any stats showing that the "rich get richer and the poor get poorer"?

Yup since the crash the top 1% have gotten richer buy 20% and the people at the bottom hit with all the taxes and so on have gotten poor.

Cazzoenorme

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Any time I've brought this up, I've had a sizable number of people respond with "Man you're having a laugh, that's not ACTUALLY where money comes from....... right?"

I honestly reckon we'd solve a huge number of ridiculous problems if we managed to throw this system away, but the fact that so many don't know how it works makes people reluctant to mess with it I think.

Banks don't actually creat money, they create promises to pay back money.

Cazzoenorme wrote: »

Banks don't actually creat money, they create promises to pay back money.

You're in disagreement with the Bank of England.