Cannabis sales legal in Colorado as of tomorrow

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm all for legalising it but arguing for that by comparing it to other substances etc is playing right into the hands of those who oppose changing the law.

There's many arguments and many levels of discourse.

It seems most of the people against it are making incorrect comparisons already so they deserve a response.

Frank Garrett wrote: »

Apart from those who smoke it and die of lung cancer.

Its not tobacco you know?

qaf

MadsL wrote: »

I heard 37 people died the first day from weed overdoses (called whiteys) after smoking 6 whole marijuanas each.

http://dailycurrant.com/2014/01/02/marijuana-overdoses-kill-37-in-colorado-on-first-day-of-legalization/?fb_action_ids=586381321434848&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B565788636838974%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map

Last time I checked around 40 people a year die in the US each year because of alcohol overdoses. Wow, I guess that means alcohol doesn't cause a ****load of problems.

People die from alcohol mainly from car accidents and other types of incidents not the actual alcohol itself (outside of chronic long-term users). I will take a person high on marijuana over a drunk behind the wheel any day but it doesn't mean that people don't die from driving while high.

So the whole talking point about nobody dying from weed is a load of ****. It goes along with the whole alcohol is already legal and causes a **** load of problems so lets legalize another drug talking point.

kumate_champ07

you dont have to buy it from the shops, its legal to grow a couple of plants at home. think its 3-6 plants

InTheTrees wrote: »

Its not tobacco you know?

So smoking cannabis doesn't increase the risk of lung cancer? It's still inhaling burning plant material.

qaf wrote: »

Last time I checked around 40 people a year die in the US each year because of alcohol overdoses. Wow, I guess that means alcohol doesn't cause a ****load of problems.

Seriously? So you're saying the only medical issues that alcohol causes is overdoses? You're saying the only physical damage you could do to yourself by drinking is to overdose?

poundapunnet

InTheTrees wrote: »

Seriously? So you're saying the only medical issues that alcohol causes is overdoses?

That's literally the opposite of what they said

penguin88 wrote: »

So smoking cannabis doesn't increase the risk of lung cancer? It's still inhaling burning plant material.

There's no information saying it does. Not all burning plant material causes cancer. There's also herbal cigarettes that people trying to quit tobacco can buy and they dont cause cancer.

Its not like the voters of Washington and Colorado are all pot smokers, most ordinary people voted for this too, there was extensive debate, they didnt all go collectively insane. There's a lot of reputable science that says this stuff is harmless and there's no solid reasons for continued prohibition.

Benteke

Why do others care what others get up to? At the end of the day it's none of their business, If one wants to drink let them, if one wants to smoke let them, As long as it's not effecting you why would anyone give a s.hit what another person gets up to, If they end up dead then why would it matter to someone who won't be at their funeral. Smoking a few joints is not the most harmful drug in the world, More dangerous drugs get sold over pharmacy counters, The most addictive drugs in Ireland are painkillers and sleeping tablets, I know 2 politicians who smoke it but yet they voted against the bill not long ago just because they wanted to tow the party line, That's the democracy we live in, No point stepping on toes. I just don't understand why others get so worked up about others smoking cannabis when it it does not effect them.

qaf

InTheTrees wrote: »

Seriously? So you're saying the only medical issues that alcohol causes is overdoses? You're saying the only physical damage you could do to yourself by drinking is to overdose?

Here I will re-post my answer to you from before that you didn't respond too. You know perfectly well what I am saying.

qaf wrote: »

You can't die from cannabis * except just like alcohol you can die in a car crash while stoned or a bunch of other activities. You actually have to try pretty hard to die solely from alcohol alone in the Western world. You either need to drink too much and not have anybody come to your aid (you get your stomach pumped and get kicked out of hospital the same day, same as lots of people in the US show up at ER solely because of weed) or drink continuously for decades and die from cancer or liver failure.

If you are going to say that cannabis does not kill people then you also have to accept that short term over usage of alcohol kills few people in the developed world. If you want to include the car accidents and other incidents which are the cause of most alcohol deaths (outside long-term heavy consumption) then it is only appropriate to include the car accidents and other incidents that cannabis usage is a part off. But then you couldn't say that cannabis doesn't kill people because people die in car accidents from cannabis usage, not to the same level as alcohol usage but then again cannabis usage is not as widespread and we will have to wait and see the results of legalization in these states to see what impact it will have on traffic accidents.

Rough Sleeper

InTheTrees wrote: »

There's no information saying it does. Not all burning plant material causes cancer. There's also herbal cigarettes that people trying to quit tobacco can buy and they dont cause cancer.

There's been a good bit of does it/doesn't it in the literature in recent years. I think I saw a meta-analysis recently that implied a link between heavy consumption and cancer, taking into account confounding factors like tobacco intake. Certainly, inhaling burning plant material can cause some respiratory disorders.

I haven't slept for the longest time so I'm not really up for digging around at the minute. You could have look on Google Scholar (try to be objective!) and see what comes up.

I'd say there's slim-to-no research on "herbal cigarettes," which is a very nebulous term, so I wouldn't say for certain what they do or don't cause.

BOHtox wrote: »

Nah you're looking at most at 3.5gms per 50 bag. Usually slightly less than 3. We'll call it 3 for arguments sake. So 9 50 bags is €450 for an ounce. $196 is not a bad price for an ounce. Considering it'll be purer and there'll be far more accountability in that you'll know exactly what you're smoking and where it came from.

Not to mention that the last time I was in Amsterdam about 3 and a half years back (visiting a friend who lived there for the week of the World Cup final) I got 2g of grass after he picked me up from the airport, just something for 'after' a night out as we were mainly drinking.

That 2g bag was about 2.5-3 times the size of a 50 bag over here, and the Dutch weigh it exactly, on an electronic scales before giving it to you so I didn't get a 'generous bit extra' or anything. Makes you wonder how much crap is put in the weed here to help weigh it down - I know plenty of people dip it in sand, and I remember 6-7 years back there were cases of what looked like crushed up glass in it. The main tell tale sign being when your finger feels rally dusty after spreading in. These are the types of things that a lot of people unfamiliar with the drug who just fob off legalisation as automatically bad in every single way never contemplate as they are often completely unaware of it.

MonaPizza

spiralism wrote: »

Cannabis use in Holland is lower than in most countries, with only 5% of Dutch people regular smokers. Compared to 6.3 % here, 6.5 in England, 8.5 in France and Scotland, 10.5 in Spain and 14.5 in Italy. They don't have a lot of interest in it tbh, the prevailing attitude among Dutch people i found to be that it was something for tourists and foreigners.

Lived in Amsterdam for years and no loads of Dutch people. Only one acquaintance smokes weed
The suriname boys smoke regularly, that's about it.

Frank Garrett wrote: »

Apart from those who smoke it and die of lung cancer.

Several longitudinal studies have established that even long-term use of marijuana (via smoking) in humans is not associated with elevated cancer risk, including tobacco-related cancers or with cancer of the following sites: colorectal, lung, melanoma, prostate, breast, cervix. A more recent (2009) population-based case-control study found that moderate marijuana smoking over a 20 year period was associated with reduced risk of head and neck cancer (See Liang et al). And a 5-year-long population-based case control study found even long-term heavy marijuana smoking was not associated with lung cancer or UAT (upper aerodigestive tract) cancers.[5]
http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/10-facts-about-marijuana

ScumLord

Billy86 wrote: »

Makes you wonder how much crap is put in the weed here to help weigh it down - I know plenty of people dip it in sand, and I remember 6-7 years back there were cases of what looked like crushed up glass in it. The main tell tale sign being when your finger feels rally dusty after spreading in.

It's not really necessary to go to such lengths to increase the weight of weed. Just leave it outside on a day like today and the air will fill it full of moisture, easily doubling the weight.

penguin88 wrote: »

So smoking cannabis doesn't increase the risk of lung cancer? It's still inhaling burning plant material.

that's not the only way to ingest it.

in other news, doritos and dominos stocks have gone through the roof. Completely unrelated.

SV wrote: »

that's not the only way to ingest it.

And studies even show that smoking marijuana does not increase chances - if of course the joints are only weed, no tobacco.

Billy86 wrote: »

And studies even show that smoking marijuana does not increase chances - if of course the joints are only weed, no tobacco.

no but inhaling heated plant matter is not healthy, that's just common sense. however there is no links as of yet.

SV wrote: »

no but inhaling heated plant matter is not healthy, that's just common sense. however there is no links as of yet.

Well that is true yes, my point being though that smoking a cigarette is likely much more physically harmful than smoking a full weed joint with the exact same amount of material in it.

Though if it was good grass, you'd definitely wind up drinking and eating a lot of crap in the aftermath.

Billy86 wrote: »

Well that is true yes, my point being though that smoking a cigarette is likely much more physically harmful than smoking a full weed joint with the exact same amount of material in it.

Though if it was good grass, you'd definitely wind up drinking and eating a lot of crap in the aftermath.

tell me about it, my few Amsterdam experiences have been amazing.
i discovered their food selection is pretty amazing at the same time too :P

SV wrote: »

tell me about it, my few Amsterdam experiences have been amazing.
i discovered their food selection is pretty amazing at the same time too :P

First time I went over I was 18, got the munchies and wound up eating about 5 space-cake muffins without copping what they were

. That was just after Christmas, great time of the year to go if it's snowing or close to it there. It's actually a better place though if you don't smoke, or just have do after drinking at night and/or a tiny one to cure the hangover (amazing how good grass is for that). There's just loads to do and if you've got a bike it's no more than 10-15 minutes away at any given time.

Get a bike out, it's great craic... but make sure to not act the eejit on it or you'll get the head eaten off you! Plus, you'll understand just how annoying it is when some stoned teenager wanders onto the road in your way on a reasonably crowded street and there's a long, long line of cyclists right behind you!

SV wrote: »

that's not the only way to ingest it.

Of course, eating or using a vaporiser eliminates any risk associated with smoking, however smoking is the most common way cannabis is used.

It's pretty clear that cannabis is less harmful than smoking tobacco, however it's not harmless, so comments such as

InTheTrees wrote: »

There's a lot of reputable science that says this stuff is harmless

are silly and only give ammunition to those opposing legalisation. Much better to discuss the issue on the basis of the actual facts.

Billy86 wrote: »

Several longitudinal studies have established that even long-term use of marijuana (via smoking) in humans is not associated with elevated cancer risk, including tobacco-related cancers or with cancer of the following sites: colorectal, lung, melanoma, prostate, breast, cervix. A more recent (2009) population-based case-control study found that moderate marijuana smoking over a 20 year period was associated with reduced risk of head and neck cancer (See Liang et al). And a 5-year-long population-based case control study found even long-term heavy marijuana smoking was not associated with lung cancer or UAT (upper aerodigestive tract) cancers.[5]
http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/10-facts-about-marijuana

There have also been studies showing that smoking cannabis is associated with increased risk of cancer. The evidence on the matter is equivocal.

penguin88 wrote: »

It's pretty clear that cannabis is less harmful than smoking tobacco, however it's not harmless, so comments such as
are silly and only give ammunition to those opposing legalisation. Much better to discuss the issue on the basis of the actual facts.
There have also been studies showing that smoking cannabis is associated with increased risk of cancer. The evidence on the matter is equivocal.

"Silly" is not providing a link to these "studies" you mention after saying you were going to discuss the "facts".

You have the wisdom of entire human race available through the Googles, share some of this information with us?

InTheTrees wrote: »

"Silly" is not providing a link to these "studies" you mention after saying you were going to discuss the "facts".

You have the wisdom of entire human race available through the Googles, share some of this information with us?

I did discuss facts. The fact is studies have shown an association with increased cancer risk.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10552-013-0259-0

http://journals.lww.com/jto/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2008&issue=12000&article=00007&type=abstract

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/18/1055-9965.EPI-13-0181.long

You claimed cannabis is harmless. I assume you too have access to Google and can share the information to support this claim?

penguin88 wrote: »

I did discuss facts. The fact is studies have shown an association with increased cancer risk.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10552-013-0259-0

http://journals.lww.com/jto/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2008&issue=12000&article=00007&type=abstract

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/18/1055-9965.EPI-13-0181.long

You claimed cannabis is harmless. I assume you too have access to Google and can share the information to support this claim?

Cannabis is harmless though, burning it and inhaling the burnt plant matter isn't.
but there are plenty of other ways to enjoy it, I know smoking is the most popular though.