hansfrei wrote: » Totally agree. The answer is to make social wecare inspectors do their fcujing jobs or hire some extra staff temporarily if needs be. I don't get the objections people have. At the same time it's fairly obvious where this is going. We shouldn't co-operate from that POV. I'd expect gards to have an ounce of common sense about this too.
Technoprisoner wrote: » ok then he can stop and ask....but you have every right to tell him to get stuffed. there is no law that requires you to freely give this information to a guard
darkpagandeath wrote: » Show us the direct legislation then SW has nothing to do with garda
Technoprisoner wrote: » show us this magical piece of law that you keep referring to
Cody Pomeray wrote: » That's right, personally I would rather not give my PPSN, and would say so, giving legitimate reasons of privacy, and instead explaining where I am coming from and where I am going, politely. But I suspect a lot of The Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2011 is an example of a piece of legislation under which serious social welfare fraud was prosecuted in the circuit court recently.
ezra_pound wrote: » Because sw fraud is a crime and gardai have right to stop and question in order to detect crime.
Technoprisoner wrote: » so you agree that if you pull up to a check point that if the guard ask for your pps number or if you are employed that you can tell the guard that you dont wish to divulge this information with them
darkpagandeath wrote: » fraud falls under the revenue does it not ? A garda can arrest you for it but not randomly go around stopping people he has no suspicions of
Technoprisoner wrote: » but where does it say in this act that a guard may stop you at a check point and ask for details such as if you are working and what is your pps number
darkpagandeath wrote: » i agree i have no problem with them catching SW fraud just not at my expense or expense of my freedom to move about without harassment
ezra_pound wrote: » Currently(pre sw act 2014) yes. But it would raise suspicions that you were a sw cheat. So you be risking arrest.
ezra_pound wrote: » Why do you think S welfare fraud goes under revenue? Good God! It's legislated for under s welfare acts.
dxhound2005 wrote: » Social Welfare Act 2005 contains the following. (16) A social welfare inspector may, for the purposes of ensuring compliance with this Act, if accompanied by a member of the Garda Síochána in uniform— (a) stop any vehicle which he or she reasonably suspects is used in the course of employment or self-employment, and (b) on production of his or her certificate of appointment, where so requested, question and make enquiries of any person in the vehicle or require that person to give to the social welfare inspector any record relating to his or her employment or self-employment which the person has possession of in the vehicle, and examine it.http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0026/print.html#sec250
ezra_pound wrote: » If the Legal specialists in DSP and the garda siochana are uncertain of powers then you can be sure that sufficient powers will be legislated for shortly. End of. If you have a problem with that legislation you can lodge a JR motion in the central office of the high court. Good luck with that!
dxhound2005 wrote: » Social Welfare Act 2005 contains the following. (16) A social welfare inspector may, for the purposes of ensuring compliance with this Act, if accompanied by a member of the Garda Síochána in uniform— (a) stop any vehicle which he or she reasonably suspects is used in the course of employment or self-employment, and
ezra_pound wrote: » No statutorily they can stop any cars. That is common law powers discussed.
darkpagandeath wrote: » No sorry that nonsense they have to suspect or be given information that that van has SW scammers in it
Technoprisoner wrote: » you are assuming that they will introduce new law to cover this lol
ezra_pound wrote: » Why not? That is what the dail do after all.
dxhound2005 wrote: » How does this work for Customs at Multi Agency Vehicle Checkpoints, looking for green diesel. There is no way they can tell if there is illegal diesel in a domestic car by just looking at it. So how can they dip the tank? Can someone drive around for years by with green diesel by just saying to the Customs and the Gardai "May I be on my way" ?
ezra_pound wrote: » Anyway I for one think that it's great. Hate social welfare cheats.
darkpagandeath wrote: » Have different powers just like boarder control
darkpagandeath wrote: » If we let them yes yes they do we have rights this is not a banana republic.
dxhound2005 wrote: » But I thought it all came down to a suspicion that a crime was being commited? What powers can they use to force someone to let them dip the tank if that person says they are using legal fuel?
