Technoprisoner wrote: » it has nothing to do with nailing fraudsters....but has everything to do with invasion of privacy. you have a right not to be harassed in your daily travels. what happens if they decide that checkpoints are not enough and that they want the guards on every street corner asking people walking down the road to produce there identification and pps number?
darkpagandeath wrote: » Pps number has nothing to do with road traffic offences
ezra_pound wrote: » I was harassed recently by garda. He made me blow into a balloon and then ascertained that I hadn't been drinking. He knows WAY TOO MUCH about my personal life. He also had the cheek to ask 'have y drink taken?'
Cody Pomeray wrote: » I'd love to hear the conversation between Gardaí at times like this. I'd like to think they don't take that attitude, but yes, offences like breach of the peace provide extremely broad grounds for arrest. Not necessarily. It would depend on the circumstances of the case. If you had, say, work documents with you, and could ground a reasonable objection to producing your PPS number in law, I think that would form a strong basis for refusing to comply. If you were calm and courteous, I think very few Gardaí could ground a reasonable suspicion, honestly held, from that interaction. It's really a case by case issue. If you were nervous and agitated and refused to give your PPSN, I think a reasonable suspicion would arise. This is just wrong. I know the difference. I don't think you do.
ezra_pound wrote: » That's totally beside the point. This has nothing to do with road traffic law.
Technoprisoner wrote: » but there is a specific piece of law for that situation. There is no law where it states a garda can stop you an request your employment status or pps number. The guards can not just assume that everyone is a welfare cheat and use that as ground to legaly gain this information from you
Technoprisoner wrote: » what is wrong with it?
hansfrei wrote: » Think the gards are just standing in for social welfare inspectors like.
darkpagandeath wrote: » So road traffic checkpoints have noting to do with the road traffic act now ? So you will have no problem with garda setting up a random stop search outside your house for no reason then ? as you know that would be illegal
Yawns wrote: » Nutters, you may carry on nutting.
ezra_pound wrote: » If a check point is set up to find kidnappers then that would have nothing to do with road traffic acts. Likewise this would not either
Cody Pomeray wrote: » The idea that a Garda cannot ask you a question unless the law sanctions that question. The law provides that a Garda has a right both at common law and in statute to stop a motorist without any specific suspicion. Are you seriously trying to tell me that once he stops that motorist, the purpose of which is to detect crime, he has no right to speak to that motorist? That there is a positive legal bar on communication? Come on this is just silly stuff now. s.109 and the Supreme Court in Fagan specifically refer to the Garda discharging his duties. Of course he can ask you for your PPSN, when the object is to detect crime; you do not have to reply, but if you do not reply, you should be certain that you are not causing a suspicion to arise.
ezra_pound wrote: » You can be sure that the gardai will be given clear statutory powers under social welfare act 2014 to bust the bad guys.
Technoprisoner wrote: » ok then he can stop and ask....but you have every right to tell him to get stuffed. there is no law that requires you to freely give this information to a guard
darkpagandeath wrote: » Show us the direct legislation then SW has nothing to do with garda
ezra_pound wrote: » Yes but if you failed then to provide nameand address he could arrest you.
ezra_pound wrote: » Social welfare act 2014
Technoprisoner wrote: » he has a right to ask your name and address but not if you are employed or what is your pps number or are you collecting the dole or are you receiving social welfare payments
Technoprisoner wrote: » so you are quoting law that does not exist?
ezra_pound wrote: » I never said Soc welfare has anything to do with garda.
darkpagandeath wrote: » And if people just happily let them were will it end ? You cannot run this country like a dictatorship. We have rights as citizens
darkpagandeath wrote: » Then why are you saying they can stop you and suspect you of social welfare fraud ?
ezra_pound wrote: » Yea I know. God this is going round in circles.
