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Disabled parking spaces. Do you..

Ghost Buster

....park in them if you are not entitled to?
I dont want this to become a shouty fighty thread!

I loath the misuse of disabled parking spaces but what i am interested in here is fathoming the mind set of the people who park in them. In my work last night i had to chase two people, two ordinary and usually quite nice individuals out of disabled spaces in a private car park. I really just done get it.
What is your justification?

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Ghost Buster

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I'm not only speaking in legal terms, that would be clear to you if you read my other posts. I am only speaking in legal terms in relation to the "rules" of the supermarket. I sincerely doubt anyone get their morals from a supermarket.

And I have addressed the other points several times and its going to be a pointless endeavor to go over them again. If you are actually interested in my view on those points read back through my posts I have covered them all.

I'll simply take some joy in the fact that 99% of people watching you park in a disabled space think youre a c8nt.

The 1% being Fred Swanson who has just finished chastising his own Mother for breeding him.

Artful_Badger

bruschi wrote: »

the fact you cant actually see why its wrong, and only speak of legal terms says it all.

There is a thing called morals. its that nagging feeling other people get when they do something against their better judgement. There is also something called common courtesy too. Its being decent and as a phrase goes, not being a dick.

Why do you think that it is ok for you to park in a disabled spot whenever the mood takes you? And why do you think that many more dont do it, and dont block up these spots which leaves you free to park in them?

Does the extra few metres you save walking actually help you?

I'm not only speaking in legal terms, that would be clear to you if you read my other posts. I am only speaking in legal terms in relation to the "rules" of the supermarket. I sincerely doubt anyone get their morals from a supermarket.

And I have addressed the other points several times and its going to be a pointless endeavor to go over them again. If you are actually interested in my view on those points read back through my posts I have covered them all.

At this point I'm afraid I'm gonna have to bow out of this discussion as its just going to go in circles peppered with ignorant digs by people with no interest in anything but insulting others. I've made my views known and defended them in a reasonable manner and I havent read anything anyone has posted that makes me think I am wrong to hold those views. If anyone has read all my posts and wishes to continue the discussion or make a point by all means pm me.

bruschi

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Of course its up to me to decide, a business has no authority over me other than to recommend behavior which is there for the benefit of the business and refuse me service if I am being a problem or call the actual authorities if I'm breaking the law. Its a business and it does what it does to cater for their customers and abide by regulations. They are legally required to have these spaces, to cater for customers with certain needs and do what they can to make sure those spaces are available when people need them.

I see no reason why not strictly adhering to rules of the car park is a problem if my actions are not affecting anyone and I'm not breaking the law as laid down by the actual authorities (as far as I'm aware its not illegal to park without a permit in a disabled spot in a private car park). The business wont be affected and the people who need the spaced wont be affected.

the fact you cant actually see why its wrong, and only speak of legal terms says it all.

There is a thing called morals. its that nagging feeling other people get when they do something against their better judgement. There is also something called common courtesy too. Its being decent and as a phrase goes, not being a dick.

Why do you think that it is ok for you to park in a disabled spot whenever the mood takes you? And why do you think that many more dont do it, and dont block up these spots which leaves you free to park in them?

Does the extra few metres you save walking actually help you?

Senna

There are two customer disabled spaces right in-front of my work (with more at another entrance) and both could be used by genuine disabled people for most of the day.
I used to try and make sure they were free for disabled drivers but now I don't bother, a couple of times I asked drivers if they realised that was a disabled spot (were there was no sticker on the window and they had no obvious disability) but they were actually disabled or were picking up a disabled person, the grief I got from them was ridiculous. If they cant realise that I was only trying to help "them", then **** them. Disabled people can be w*nkers too.

Artful_Badger

malkmoose wrote: »

But it's not for you to decide that. You should abide by the law/rule set out by the business. Its not 'suggested parking', the business has decided to set out disabled and parent child spaces. They sometimes don't allow people in their shops wearing pyjamas or tops off etc. just another rule.

The decision you can make is not go there.

Of course its up to me to decide, a business has no authority over me other than to recommend behavior which is there for the benefit of the business and refuse me service if I am being a problem or call the actual authorities if I'm breaking the law. Its a business and it does what it does to cater for their customers and abide by regulations. They are legally required to have these spaces, to cater for customers with certain needs and do what they can to make sure those spaces are available when people need them.

I see no reason why not strictly adhering to rules of the car park is a problem if my actions are not affecting anyone and I'm not breaking the law as laid down by the actual authorities (as far as I'm aware its not illegal to park without a permit in a disabled spot in a private car park). The business wont be affected and the people who need the spaced wont be affected.

Artful_Badger

Ghost Buster wrote: »

You are simply reiterating the same 'odds' are they wont be needed and sure I'll only be a minute' bunkum over and over without engaging with the actual points of any poster which counters this.

That's just simply a lie. I have addressed every point put to me and explained my reasons for having my opinion. If several people want to bring up the same thing then I'm inevitably going to be repeating my argument.

Posters addressing me and my opinion telling me I'm wrong here not the other way round. So its up to them to make a reasonable argument as to why I'm wrong.

metaoblivia

I have never and would never park in a disabled parking spot without a permit, nor would I park in a designated family spot, although as far as I know you don't actually need any badge to park in one of those.

But I also don't understand the desire to park as close as you can to the store if you're an able-bodied person. The walk isn't going to kill you! It's probably good for you. Whenever I end up in a crowded parking lot, I don't even bother looking for a spot up front. I just park in back and enjoy the walk. If it's raining, then bring an umbrella. If it's hot, deal with it, you'll be inside in a few minutes. Seriously, if you are a healthy, able-bodied human being, walking a few extra steps isn't a big deal. Leave the disabled spaces for those who need them.

Ghost Buster

malkmoose wrote: »

But it's not for you to decide that. You should abide by the law/rule set out by the business. Its not 'suggested parking', the business has decided to set out disabled and parent child spaces. They sometimes don't allow people in their shops wearing pyjamas or tops off etc. just another rule.

The decision you can make is not go there.

But Im beginning to see Swansons point. Just like these bastards who choose to have kids many of these disabled folk have chosen to be disabled. The cardiac patients probably ate too many pies and smoked, the paralysed probably chose to play rugby or drive and crash. Grrrrrrrrrrr:mad:

:rolleyes:

malkmoose

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I dont think the fact something was designed for a specific section of society necessarily makes it wrong for others to use it.

And no I'm not posting this way to get up peoples noses. I'm simply stating my opinion, my reasons for holding it and doing so in what I think is a pretty levelheaded and reasonable manner without relying on petty digs and insults unlike so many others.

But it's not for you to decide that. You should abide by the law/rule set out by the business. Its not 'suggested parking', the business has decided to set out disabled and parent child spaces. They sometimes don't allow people in their shops wearing pyjamas or tops off etc. just another rule.

The decision you can make is not go there.

Ghost Buster

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I dont think the fact something was designed for a specific section of society necessarily makes it wrong for others to use it.

And no I'm not posting this way to get up peoples noses. I'm simply stating my opinion, my reasons for holding it and doing so in what I think is a pretty levelheaded and reasonable manner without relying on petty digs and insults unlike so many others.

You are simply reiterating the same 'odds' are they wont be needed and sure I'll only be a minute' bunkum over and over without engaging with the actual points of any poster which counters this.

Knight who says Meh

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Personally I've never had an issue with 'breeders'. However I am beginning to think that five minutes alone with someones father, a vasectomy surgeon and some chloroform may have resulted in society being a slightly nicer place.
Bloody breeders eh? How else would we have character like you without them:rolleyes:

Artful_Badger

Peanut2011 wrote: »

My point was that neither was designed for you so you should not use it, simple!

I sincerely hope you are posting in this way just to get up peoples noses but the reality is that there are so many people like this out there. I don't blame them for doing it, I blame their parents for not teaching them better!

I dont think the fact something was designed for a specific section of society necessarily makes it wrong for others to use it.

And no I'm not posting this way to get up peoples noses. I'm simply stating my opinion, my reasons for holding it and doing so in what I think is a pretty levelheaded and reasonable manner without relying on petty digs and insults unlike so many others.

Ghost Buster

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Heres the thing. We live in a society not a feudal system. Society is what has enabled us to advance beyond throwing rocks and spears at the neighbouring tribe or at people who are different to us and above needing to kill the next tribe over the hill to steal their food.
I once heard it said that if people walked the way they drive we would soon have running brawls on the streets. Vehicles give people a wonderful anonymity and bravery to be obnoxious.
Can I ask all the 'I park where I want and f8ck everyone else' brigade a few questions.
Do you hold the door open for a young mother struggling with shopping and a buggy? Sure you do.
Do you shoulder people on crutches out of your way?
Do you let (very) elderly people have a seat before you?
I could go on but I think you get my drift.
Respecting parking spaces for people with special circumstances IS THE NICE THING TO DO if nothing else.
And this tripe about 'fu8k young mothers and their brats. Its their choice to have kids' simple make you a mean twat. having kids may be a choice but it is also a pretty important one for our society. None of you would be here to park in a space needed for a cardiac patient without such a 'choice'.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Indeed. there is no legal requirement for people to be considerate, altruistic or even nice. You stand up for your rights hero.

Peanut2011

Artful_Badger wrote: »

That makes no sense. Why would I choose to sit in a child seat as opposed to a regular seat ? Just so we're clear here I wouldnt park in disabled spots just to park in disabled spots. I just dont see it as necessary not to park in them in certain situations.

So if it was a disabled seat in McDonalds that looked just like a normal seat except it was blue or something then I probably wouldnt think twice about sitting in it if there was loads of them and nobody around. It would just be an unused seat that nobody was likely to need while I was using it.

My point was that neither was designed for you so you should not use it, simple!

I sincerely hope you are posting in this way just to get up peoples noses but the reality is that there are so many people like this out there. I don't blame them for doing it, I blame their parents for not teaching them better!

anncoates

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I too am happy to leave them free if there is a chance they will be needed..

I give up.

Artful_Badger

anncoates wrote: »

By the looks of things, others have already said what I'm going to say.

The reason that disabled spaces are often empty is that the overwhelming majority of the non-disabled are happy to just leave the spaces free on the off-chance that they will inconvenience a disabled driver.

The only way that this system has any chance of working is if the majority of the non-disabled drivers obey the rules.

So if you have the neck to disregard those rules, you can usually park in the spots and get away with it but really the fact that you do is essentially granted to you by the majority of people that abide by the rules.

As you're into simple examples: an analogy might be cheating in exams. the overwhelming majoity won't cheat so a handful of people that do turn in strangely near-perfect exams will probably slip under the radar. If, however, 80% of the entrants turned in same, it would be glaringly obvious.

Essentially, you use the goodwill and decency of the road users - on which the system relies - to suit yourself.

Your call but I'm really glad I'm not you.

I too am happy to leave them free if there is a chance they will be needed. I've stated this several times and explained the point. I just might not leave them free 100% of the time just because they are disabled spots and I'm not disabled. I use my own judgement as what a reasonable chance is the same as I do with everything else in life.

There is nothing granted to me by the majority of people as I said I'd make my own judgement when to use them and when not to. If other people used them I wouldnt, as long as people are capable of reasoned thought they will know when using them wont be an issue and when using them will be an issue. Granted a lot of people do cause issues because they just dont care, but its simple ignorance to claim its black and white and someone who does something that's against the rules of a supermarket car park is worthy of contempt despite the fact it affects nobody.

And another failed analogy. Its nothing like cheating, I am not misleading or cheating anybody. I am using something nobody else is using and in all likelihood wont need to use while I'm using it. If it was an exam situation I'd be moving to one of many disabled desks that nobody needed because I preferred it to another. While you insult me from the back of the room because you cant get your head around someone who's not disabled using something that says "for the disabled" on it.

Shenshen

No, I wouldn't.

For exactly the same reason why I wouldn't park across two spaces, or stop on a double yellow line. Simple common courtesy.

People have said they would use them if there were lot of free spaces, which makes me wonder why on earth they'd feel the need to park on them when there's plenty of other spaces to park on?
I would be the kind of person who would make sure to park between the lines and leave enough space either side of my car, even on a less-than-full car park. And I would consider people who don't to be inconsiderate or possibly even rude.

dark crystal

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see what the real issue is here.

Your belligerent use of the p&c spaces isn't so much to do with a sense of unfairness, more so to do with your disdain for families with young children in general. Fuck knows how you expect society to function without people 'breeding', but holding on to such a ridiculous prejudice will only eat you up inside eventually, seeing as children are an inevitable part of life. Have none of your own family bred?

Let it go, Fred....be nice. It feels so much better than being bitter.

anncoates

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I'm explaining this in very simple terms here and have no idea why you refuse to understand it. Lots of spaces, nobody around, park for a brief moment = not much of a chance of putting anyone out.

You seem to think I'm predicting the future here when I'm just using basic cop on.

By the looks of things, others have already said what I'm going to say.

The reason that disabled spaces are often empty is that the overwhelming majority of non-disabled road users are happy to just leave the spaces free on the off-chance that they will might inconvenience a disabled driver.

The only way that this system has any chance of working is if the majority of the non-disabled drivers obey the rules.

So if you have the neck to be in the minority that disregard those rules, you can usually park in the spots and get away with it but really the reason that you can is because essentially the right has been granted to you to do so by the goodwill of people that abide by the rules.

As you're into simple examples: an analogy might be cheating in exams. the overwhelming majority won't cheat so a handful of people that do turn in strangely near-perfect exams will probably slip under the radar. If, however, 80% of the entrants turned in same, it would be glaringly obvious and everybody would get caught.

Essentially, you exploit the goodwill and decency of the honest road users - on which the system relies - to suit yourself.

Your call but I'm really glad I'm not you.

Artful_Badger

Peanut2011 wrote: »

So for example if there are loads of seats when you go to McDonald's do you still pick up the child seat? Sure there are loads of them and it is very late so unlikely a child will need one?

That makes no sense. Why would I choose to sit in a child seat as opposed to a regular seat ? Just so we're clear here I wouldnt park in disabled spots just to park in disabled spots. I just dont see it as necessary not to park in them in certain situations.

So if it was a disabled seat in McDonalds that looked just like a normal seat except it was blue or something then I probably wouldnt think twice about sitting in it if there was loads of them and nobody around. It would just be an unused seat that nobody was likely to need while I was using it.

secondrowgal

For those badge holders among you, it is my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you can report a non-badge holder that's parked in a disabled spot to the Gardai or traffic warden or similar? I know a lady in my home town that does it all the time.

Also, if you are a badge holder and there is someone in the spot, would you consider just parking behind them and blocking them in (feeling particularly evil today!!)? Then let them call the guards and explain why they were blocked into a disabled parking spot that they had no right to park in in the first place...

...maybe not...

Artful_Badger

BoardsMember wrote: »

Apart from on basic decency grounds, this is where your argument really falls down. There are lots of spaces where you shop precisely because 99.9% of the population has the common decency to respect disabled parking spaces as being for disabled people. So, when you are pulling into a disabled space for a few minutes, scores of other cars will have driven past these empty spaces, and scores will continue to do so, because they are decent human beings and know the difference between right and wrong. What you are doing is wrong an indefensible.

I have defended it quite well actually while everyone I have engaged with has resorted to insults, "what ifs" and smart assed comments. Common decency doesnt come into leaving a space open for nobody. Common decency comes into it when you're actions are going to affect someone. When they are unlikely (as I said previously there are no absolutes but a reasonable person can make a reasonable decision based on the likelihood something will happen) to affect someone then its simply absurd to bring decency into it or to insult people for not showing common decency to nonexistent people.

Peanut2011

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I'm explaining this in very simple terms here and have no idea why you refuse to understand it. Lots of spaces, nobody around, park for a brief moment = not much of a chance of putting anyone out.

So for example if there are loads of seats when you go to McDonald's do you still pick up the child seat? Sure there are loads of them and it is very late so unlikely a child will need one?

BoardsMember

Duck's hoop wrote: »

If the majority thought like you there'd soon be no spaces free.

Apart from on basic decency grounds, this is where your argument really falls down. There are lots of spaces where you shop precisely because 99.9% of the population has the common decency to respect disabled parking spaces as being for disabled people. So, when you are pulling into a disabled space for a few minutes, scores of other cars will have driven past these empty spaces, and scores will continue to do so, because they are decent human beings and know the difference between right and wrong. What you are doing is wrong an indefensible.

Peanut2011

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I guess common courtesy is not something you posses? Just cos they have no legal standing does not mean you should block that spot.

There are more than enough other parking spaces around.

For the record, I find it infuriating seeing people parking a a disable spot or parent and a child spot who should not be there.

Goat the dote

I did while I was pregnant and crippled with spd. I had to be in town as had no support and had to drive myself. Probably only 3/4 times in total. Did I feel ****? Yes. If there were no spaces closer then I really had no choice.
Would I do it again since I can walk unaided again? No. And I hate seeing people park in spa es, particularly now since my sister holds a pass for my niece as she has a disability and needs the space for her wheelchair.
I would hope that if the same was to happen on a future pregnancy that I would have more family support to not need to drive myself. I would also rely on Internet shopping for almost everything. Although I needed to be in the vicinity of other humans it ultimately was too upsetting for me from an agony point of view

BoardsMember

Sometimes, to break up the monotony of a thread that has gone off on a tangent, it is fun to play the anagram game with User names. Mind if I start: Artful Badger = Bagful Retard

Artful_Badger

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

Look out there. Trip yourself up enough you may need one of those plentiful spaces.

I'm starting to think I'm wasting my time here. What I said there was also pretty basic stuff. Ya see when you think something is likely you usually think the opposite is unlikely. I wouldn't park there if it was likely to be needed. Therefore if I park there I think its unlikely it will be needed. Does that make sense ?

Artful_Badger

anncoates wrote: »

Do you have next Wednesday's winning lotto numbers?

I'm explaining this in very simple terms here and have no idea why you refuse to understand it. Lots of spaces, nobody around, park for a brief moment = not much of a chance of putting anyone out.

You seem to think I'm predicting the future here when I'm just using basic cop on.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.