Russian Skinheads Using Social Media To Lure, Kidnap And Publicly Torture Gay Teens

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darced wrote: »

It seemingly has changed context again according to drunkmonkey and in that case it is not torture,torture is a strong word.

It wouldn't change it significantly though, it's still torture and your unwillingness to admit this is flummoxing.

Pouring urine over a person and kicking while shouting slurs at them is just some mild mannered bullying according to you. Do you think somebody would get over this?

Torture is not a strong word in this context. Firstly bullying can be an act of torture. Secondly, I struggle to understand how you find this to be not that bad.

Gummy Panda

Corkfeen wrote: »

There's varying degrees of torture. Drunkmonkey, out of interest what do you think of the recent Russian laws? You seem to be rather approving of them.

What's the new Russian laws?

I am not aware

Smiles35

Corkfeen wrote: »

It wouldn't change it significantly though, it's still torture and your unwillingness to admit this is flummoxing.

Pouring urine over a person and kicking them is just some mild mannered bullying according to you. Do you think somebody would get over this?

Seen it happen in school many a time. Your willininess to link resonably 'normal' teenagers with neo-nazi criminals is wrong and shortsighted.

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Gummy Panda, this wiki link basically sums it up. Holding up a gay pride flag for example could result in one being jailed. There have been large scale physical attacks against those at pride rallies. Perpetrators of violence against the lgbt community do not face arrest generally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Bans_on_.22homosexual_propaganda.22

Smell Badda wrote: »

Seen it happen in school many a time. Your willininess to link resonably 'normal' teenagers with neo-nazi criminals is wrong and shortsighted.

How was that reasonably normal behaviour? Secondly if you've seen this happen in school. It is criminal behaviour.

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Other than a dribble of beer or something and a girly kick, what happened???

20 minutes of nothing thats what!!!

AFAIL it's urine.

And you call being stopped in the street and detained by a large group of youths, some of whom wearing masks and being questioned on camera, presumably about a subject which could cause him to be oestracised by family and friends, and expose him to risks of future violence, with the whole thing uploaded on YouTube for the world to see nothing?

Your either an insensitive callous bastard or just plain stupid if you think that's nothing.

drunkmonkey

Gummy Panda wrote: »

What's the new Russian laws?

I am not aware

They've made it illegal to promote homosexuality to minors. Possible fine and or up 2 weeks in jail.
2 Dutch men promoting homosexuality to russian teens have already been arrested when they were caught with teens.

All but 1 Russian minister voted against the law and it's a popular law for Putin as Russia is a conservative society.

darced wrote: »

If this is true then the gang is doing him a favour,hardly torture now is it.

A favour?

How is that now?

They are potentially ruining his life and putting him in danger (even if they don't follow through on their own threat).

According to some of the articles on this there have been reports of suicides after incidents like that.

It's certainly worse than the Tyler Clementi case, where we committed suicide after a video of him having sex was uploaded online without his knowledge.

I just can't believe that anybody could honestly hold an attitude like yours.

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Smiles35

Corkfeen wrote: »

How was that reasonably normal behaviour? Secondly if you've seen this happen in school. It is criminal behaviour.

I'm glad it is. I've had it happen to me and I've been part of it though. Are you saying I'm a strange Hanibal Lector type charater?

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He still won't admit it's torture. Genuinely wish I didn't open the topic, some of the responses are sickening.

For all those people who think it's grand. If it happened to you and was released on the Internet where you were ridiculed by neo nazi scum in front of your family and the public . How would you feel? Would you say they've done me a favour?

The laws that Russia have brought in are Homophobic and endorse homophobia. If a teenager is struggling with their sexuality, no support network exists. And Russia wants gay people to hide away as if there's something wrong with them.

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

take away the fact that the guy is gay and this would just be an intervention about a young kid that about to do something extremely stupid, dangerous and illegal. The kid is not really being called out for being gay, hes being called out for being pimping his ass.

Really?

I haven't attended too many interventions but I don't believe they are usually carried out by strangers who threaten violence, pour urine on the person, threaten violence, post the footage online, promise to expose him to friends and family and leave him open to being at best oestracised and at worst open to violent attack in a notoriously homophobic country - one where homophobia is written into law, and where if homophobic attacks are not sanctioned by the state (which they often unofficiallt are), they are very much condoned.

Also, I would be very much surprised if the thugs weren't the ones who lured him there pretending to be the older man.

Look at the pictures in the article. There is nothing benevolent in what they are doing whatsoever.

How anybody can refuse to condemn it, never mind condone or defend it in anyway completely baffles me and actually makes me fear for my own safety in this country if Irish people today can think these thugs are doing something good.

PopePalpatine

A sane person wouldn't save someone from being raped and then torture them anyway.

biko

Nazi bastards, try picking on someone your own size next time, pussies.

Also releasing the video on the Internet, means it is an ongoing torture. If he ended his life, would you still classify it as saving him? I've yet to see any evidence that he wasn't setup btw. I just can't trust drunkmonkey's word on it for some reason.

Lightbulb Sun

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I always find Russian Neo-nazis weird. Do they not realise that Nazis hated Russians and wanted them exterminated or enslaved.

Is homosexuality still illegal in Russia?

It's not illegal, but they still bring in anti-gay laws like the recent "propaganda" one.

drunkmonkey

darced wrote: »

I dont get it do gay people run around advertising gayness in russia?

Yea they do apparently hence the Dutch guys were locked up for a few days.

Basically the law in Russia is now if you want to promote lbgt issues don't do it in the public and don't do it with anyone under 18.
The Winter Olympics are really going to test the law. You can't be "out" in public.

The World Cup in Qatar will be another test, 6 years in jail if your seen in public being gay.

darced wrote: »

If what the previous poster said is true it seems like they just stopped a child from being raped by a grown man,now its being said its driven by homophobia which is wrong but it is saving the kid in this instance.

If anything, it would be a case of statutory consent. I doubt there was an older man though - I would imagine whatever ad he responded to was posted by the Nazis.

If they were concerned with "saving" him why spray him urine?

Why threaten to kill him?

Why post the video online or send it his family?

More importantly, if their concern is the children, why is it kids they are targeting and abusing?

Why not go after the pedophiles.

To be honest, your attitude here just amazes me.

drunkmonkey

They kid in the video was under the age of consent and never had gay sex before he was doing it for the money to buy a new laptop.
You've made an assumption that there was no predatory older male based on no evidence. If you read the translation of the video, you'll know this kids aren't Nazi's there all around the same age.

This kid was a complete idiot for putting himself out there online for older guys for money.

Ten of Swords

floggg wrote: »

If anything, it would be a case of statutory consent. I doubt there was an older man though - I would imagine whatever ad he responded to was posted by the Nazis.

The gang do not specifically say they created the account he corresponded with but they do claim to have the chat logs. They also ask him if he is here to meet 'Deema' when they grab him right at the start so they know the username of the person he is expected to meet.

They also ask him why he came to Moscow, was he forced to come or was he planning to rob the older man. He says 'neither' and says he came because he was curious.

Whether that's true or not is another matter but that is what was actually said. The suburb he travelled from is only about 20km from the city centre so it's not like getting there was a particularly long journey, more like a dart trip. Maybe he was genuinely curious and just wanted to meet with another gay person away from his home turf, maybe not.

Later in the video he said he needed the money to buy a new laptop.

Links234

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This kid was a complete idiot for putting himself out there online for older guys for money.

yes yes, it was all the kid's fault, totally got what he deserved. :rolleyes:

Vito Corleone

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You've made an assumption that there was no predatory older male based on no evidence.

On video one can see allegedly a 15 year old teen lured by an organized Neo Nazi gang of self-proclaimed "pedophile fighters" who posted a fake personal ad from allegedly an older man (named "Uncle Dima")

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They kid in the video was under the age of consent and never had gay sex before he was doing it for the money to buy a new laptop.
You've made an assumption that there was no predatory older male based on no evidence. If you read the translation of the video, you'll know this kids aren't Nazi's there all around the same age.

This kid was a complete idiot for putting himself out there online for older guys for money.

What the hell? Seriously, are you really telling me that they did nothing wrong? But those who hold up an lgbt flag are propagandists. Your bigotry clouds any sense of judgement that you have. You're victim blaming.

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The King of Moo

darced wrote: »

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Jesus, it's not a one-or-the-other choice! I think most people would prefer he neither had sex with an older man nor was psychologically and physically abused.

WindSock

Lots of mental anti gay stuff happening in Russia, these pictures are scary....there is even a giant pitching in in pic no. 16

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/photos-from-russia-everyone-needs-to-see