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Child Item

Sham Marriages/Human Trafficking in Ireland

WayneMolloy

Just watched tv3s documentary on sham marriages in Ireland - Irelands fake brides.

We have a situation where poor young women from former communist bloc countries are marrying mostly Pakistani and Nigerian men for a fee - so the men can reside here and eventually gain citizenship. In 2010, Latvian authorities urged the Irish government to clamp down on this. They have yet to do so - it is still not illegal in Ireland to organise a sham marriage for residency purposes. The Latvians described Ireland as a paradise for sham marriages - as the guards are powerless as to stop them.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/400-a-year-trafficked-for-sham-marriages-221367.html

The latvian government are not complaining for the sake of it - the women are usually promised a new job, a large wedge of cash and a new life in Ireland. But in reality they are locked up in an apartment, with a man they barely know, in a country that they know even less about. Some are subject to rape and abuse.

There was a debate on the subject three years ago in the Dail http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2010-11-02.63.0&s=Immigration%2C+Residence+and+Protection+Bill+2008

Yet here we are three years later and no new legislation has been passed to solve the issue. I guess the Latvians will just have to suck it up.

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WayneMolloy

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

Believe it or not, I actually know the Kin-pin and Main focus of the whole documentary "David".......he was my friend until I saw the show, could only imagine the look on my face as I sat there watching it

Can you expand on this? Did your former friend have anything to say in this defence? Is he still resident here and still at the same craic?

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

WayneMolloy

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

When it was aired the next day he came into class and everybody looked at him with disgust he rarely showed his face again, he actually failed the year and is now repeating, I think the airing of the documentary the other night wouldnt of done him any favours, without going against mod rules or anything like that, his defence was he didnt want to do it, he does still live here and the last time I saw him was Christmas at exam period.

He was actually a good friend of mine and we worked on many assignments and projects together, and I even met his child on a number of occasions, had no idea he was this sort of person. As far as I know there is a legal loophole preventing him from being prosecuted. The authorities in the school I went to where made aware of what he was doing and as there was no level of crime, just moral disgrace, he was allowed to continue to study.

Theres a lot more to the story, as most cases, but I cant go into it on a public forum

But yeah he was utterly outcast when this came to light, and Rightly so.

Any chance of filling me in with an oul pm, feeney?

Its mad to think that legislation has yet to be passed to kerb this crap.

petes

I can't watch anything with Paul Connolly in it.

Gorilla Rising

How many times does the 'promise of a new job' etc thing work before these women stop believing it....

WayneMolloy

fortune wookiee wrote: »

How many times does the 'promise of a new job' etc thing work before these women stop believing it....

Life is pretty bleak in parts of these countries. Easy to sell a desperate person a dream, no matter how far fetched it is.

Iirc, Latvian state tv put on a documentary as to warn the women away from getting involved in sham marriages. One girl who did so - told about how she was raped and abused.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/latvian-woman-in-marriage-scam-claims-she-was-raped-26676056.html

Only a matter of time before a Latvian male relative of one of these girls comes over here and goes postal on one of these lads. Maybe then our government will clamp down on it.

eviltwin

fortune wookiee wrote: »

How many times does the 'promise of a new job' etc thing work before these women stop believing it....

Often the set ups are very slick. I once worked with on behalf of a victim, she was no idiot but the people she ended up working for were very professional, they had a website, she only ever spoke to women so felt it was legit.

There are a lot of genuine companies that recruit women from overseas to work here. I would say a lot of us would struggle to tell the difference.

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Sham marraiges do not equate to human trafficking, but sure don't let the facts get in the way of your extremist xenophobic agenda.

Take it up with the gnib and the Latvian authorities. Only using their terminology.

Do you think the state should clamp down on sham marriages or should we keep turning a blind eye to it?

PyeContinental

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

When it was aired the next day he came into class and everybody looked at him with disgust he rarely showed his face again,

I'm confused here! The next day is today, unless last night's programme was a repeat? It seems there must have been a previous airing or a prior report of this guy before?

I was going to say that this guy looked a lot older than a leaving cert student would look, and he had a child who looked like it was in early primary school. How did this guy from Nigeria become a leaving cert student in Ireland?

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

WayneMolloy

PyeContinental wrote: »

I'm confused here! The next day is today, unless last night's programme was a repeat? It seems there must have been a previous airing or a prior report of this guy before?

I was going to say that this guy looked a lot older than a leaving cert student would look, and he had a child who looked like it was in early primary school. How did this guy from Nigeria become a leaving cert student in Ireland?

Probably claimed asylum and got leave to remain due to having a babog here.

The original programme was aired in 2010 or 2011. Not 100 percent sure as I was out of the country at the time - but it was a definite repeat.

PyeContinental

Ah I see, so even then it was a shambolic situation that needed to be fixed post-haste, and yet even on repeat airing a year or two later, nothing has changed.

IrishFeeney92 wrote: »

Im a college student, im sure if you used your brains you would easily find out where

Maybe I could, but I'm just going to assume that it's where I went when I was younger.

PyeContinental

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Probably claimed asylum and got leave to remain due to having a babog here.

Probably a likely scenario. This seems to be de rigeur these days. (...not that there is anything wrong with that!)

I also wondered while watching the programme, what effect would the legalisation of gay marriage (... not that there is anything wrong with that either!) have on the scope of this scam, were the legal loophole to remain in place?

shoos

It's so sad what these women are subjected to and Ireland couldn't give less of a **** - that goes for our government and society in general.

One of my friends has gone to law school purely to work in the human trafficking area and try to raise awareness and end such horrific abuse of the women here.

However, seeing this thread go up with loads of piss-taking responses and blaming the women for being stupid enough to believe what they're told... well, proves we've a long way to go.

WayneMolloy

PyeContinental wrote: »

Probably a likely scenario. This seems to be de rigeur these days. (...not that there is anything wrong with that!)

In 2011, Burton claimed that she would pass legislation to kerb sham marriages sometime in 2012. No rush, like. Well here we are in 2013 and she has done f*ck all. What a country.

http://www.thejournal.ie/govt-hopes-to-legislate-against-sham-marriages-288209-Nov2011/

Incidentally, she is my local representive and my aunts friend. Il fire her off an email on this and if she gets back to me, il post it up here.

IM0

ah another sensationalist piece of ****e by TV3

well done keep up the good programming lads :rolleyes:

Gatling

IM0 wrote: »

ah another sensationalist piece of ****e by TV3

well done keep up the good programming lads :rolleyes:

So its all a lie then ,

WayneMolloy

IM0 wrote: »

ah another sensationalist piece of ****e by TV3

well done keep up the good programming lads :rolleyes:

They are writing f*cking books about this phenomenon over in Latvia. Aleksandra Jolkina spent 18 months investigating sham marriages in Ireland and is about to release a book about it.

I suppose the Latvians are just being sensationalist?

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

They are writing f*cking books about this phenomenon over in Latvia. Aleksandra Jolkina spent 18 months investigating sham marriages in Ireland and is about to release a book about it.

I suppose the Latvians are just being sensationalist

Yup, glad you got there in the end.

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Yup, glad you got there in the end.

If your sister or young female relative was in a similar predicament and get involved with these shady geezers - would you be as dismissive of the issue?

PyeContinental

biko wrote: »

I brought this up in 2010, thread got locked.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69029041

Girls bought and sold, it's a damn tragedy is what it is.
Not very news worthy apparently.

I bet ya this thread won't get very many responses whereas a Tayto vs Kings crisps thread will get 100s.
People just don't care.

You called it correctly. Not only has this thread so far received comparatively fewer replies, but there seems to be a concerted effort to shut down discussion of the issue.

Some of the negative responses to the thread say it is a non-issue, or claim it's all exaggerated, while the single most thanked post so far is one of deflection from the issue by claiming that the thread-starter is bringing it up because of a perceived anti-immigration bias. Even if that were true, does that mean that the issue should be ignored or dismissed? Is there not a rule on this site that one should refrain from making such ad-hominem arguments - ie: attack the post and not the poster?

atkin

The odd point is that ,Britain,Germany and France have such laws in place .
to prevent.
A Registrar can prevent the Marriage.Legal status of both partners for residency, Marriage Freedom Certificate.
In Ireland there is only divorce papers if you say you were married .You can say you were not married before no check.
The residency of the person is not an issue failed Asylum seekers etc.
The excuse to not have changed the law is a restriction by the European Court.(so the big boys can do what they like the YES government)

Ireland is becoming the marriage capital of Europe. Remember the Irish born child.
There are illegals all over Europe especially the UK with a large Indian,Pakistani etc population just waiting.
Does this take a referendum to sort out.Mecca once again.The holy ground once more .

Whats also curious from the documentary .There is a line in the marriage ceremony ' Do you know of any impediment as to why the marriage should not take place speak now' . Question, does this mean anything or it it just words ??

atkin

PyeContinental wrote: »

You called it correctly. Not only has this thread so far received comparatively fewer replies, but there seems to be a concerted effort to shut down discussion of the issue.

Some of the negative responses to the thread say it is a non-issue, or claim it's all exaggerated, while the single most thanked post so far is one of deflection from the issue by claiming that the thread-starter is bringing it up because of a perceived anti-immigration bias. Even if that were true, does that mean that the issue should be ignored or dismissed? Is there not a rule on this site that one should refrain from making such ad-hominem arguments - ie: attack the post and not the poster?

Just compare this issue on other forums and see the difference. politics.ie
Boards is a rather juvenile forum made up of under 20's or those with a such a mental age

token101

IM0 wrote: »

ah another sensationalist piece of ****e by TV3

well done keep up the good programming lads :rolleyes:

I haven't seen the programme, but if it's acknowledged that sham marriages are happening by the Council of Europe how is it 'sensationalised'?

SeanW

token101 wrote: »

I haven't seen the programme, but if it's acknowledged that sham marriages are happening by the Council of Europe how is it 'sensationalised'?

According to the Left, if you say anything bad about foreigners or suggest that the immigration (or other systems) are too lenient in any way whatsoever, it's because you're a right-wing scaremongering racist promoting stereotypes. Especially if its true, the response from your typical leftist is something like "I've got my head in the sand, I can't see a problem from here."

Unless of course the topic is something near and dear to the hearts of leftists, such as prostiution and the "Swedish model" of law relating to same, in which case the whole of Europe is crawing with evil foreign gangsters trafficking women and children around as slaves ... ergo there is a need for totally unjust and discriminatory law ...

atkin

Another point is that in such cases neither party is an Irish citizen. The habitual residence should apply to such marriages.

An Irish citizen who wants to marry a non EU foreign national living outside Ireland must prove a relationship of 2 years .They must also show photographs of them together ,bank accounts,passports, proof of address etc .
You can of course marry any non EU who is in Ireland regardless of status .The likely hood of course is that they will just use you to as a means to stay here.

ottostreet

atkin wrote: »

Just compare this issue on other forums and see the difference. politics.ie
Boards is a rather juvenile forum made up of under 20's or those with a such a mental age

After Hours is essentially like listening to Spin. Unimportant stuff is classed as 'news'.

Tune to a serious station (ie. forum) for a serious discussion. I agree with you by the way, I just understand the futility of trying to have a proper discussion on AH.

atkin

Tune to a serious station (ie. forum) for a serious discussion. I agree with you by the way, I just understand the futility of trying to have a proper discussion on AH.[/QUOTE]

Interesting how the mod is staying quiet. Can you be more specific on ie forum as it brings up a lot of similar on search.

Death and Taxes

atkin wrote: »

Just compare this issue on other forums and see the difference. politics.ie
Boards is a rather juvenile forum made up of under 20's or those with a such a mental age

Well if you dont like it you know where the door is!

atkin

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Well if you dont like it you know where the door is!

Got anything useful to say ?