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Child Item

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

MadsL

My daughter attends a second-level gaelscoil that insists on calling her by a translation of her actual name that sound similar to her actual name but is in fact a different Irish name. She hates it and has frequently resisted it by saying to her teacher 'that's not my name'. Her teachers continually 'correct' her if she asserts that her name is her name by repeating the translated name back to her.

Should she put up with this? What does AH think?

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username123

Apparently you can do the deed poll thing if she is between 14-17 so long as there is the consent of both parents.

Does she not have other common usage of her name besides school records? Sports club or classes or GP records etc?

osarusan

I'm going to go into my class tomorrow and tell my students they all have new names.

Right, Tomoyuki, you're Thomas....Hiromasa, you're.....Harry...Maki, you're Mary...and so on.

Why? Because I'm the teacher, and I'll do what I want with their names. It's an English class after all, so why would they complain?

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

Why is changing the surname to Irish ok but not the first name?

Surely, if it was your intention for the surname to be in Irish, it would be on the birth cert in Irish?

Are you missing the rather crucial part about being forced to adopt a First name by the school?
I don't think I was ever complaining about a free choice of which name to use

reprazant

Why is changing the surname to Irish ok but not the first name?

Surely, if it was your intention for the surname to be in Irish, it would be on the birth cert in Irish?

Iwasfrozen

LordSutch wrote: »

Why so? its a valid question.

They can't be gaelicised because they have no gaelic meaning, just another example to point out the hypocrisy of these politically motivated teachers.

LordSutch

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope, another example of the latent hypocrisy.

Why so? its a valid question.

Iwasfrozen

username123 wrote: »

She just doesnt like it. Why dont you set her a good example and tell her to appreciate her good education and not be bothering about silly things.

To not question authority is not a good example.

MadsL

Oranage2 wrote: »

Yep sure your beside me.

Did I see right that she likes her second name in Irish but not her first?

Why do I have to repeat everything.

Her first name "in Irish" is NOT her name. Had we intended to call her that we would have.

Her Surname in Irish is grand.

Is there a problem with someone not liking an approximate translation of their actual name?

johnolocher

Your name is your name, I think it's wrong when Irish teachers give people Irish names for Irish class or roll call, fair enough a lot of Irish names have older Gaelic forms and by all means make the kid aware of it but don't call it them when they don't use it outside the class room. The biggest problem for me is when they try to put Irish on names that had no traditional older forms just to look Irish, that is when the practice goes from giving someone a version in their name in another language to trying to Gaelisize them in some sort of idealology.

That said in this case the OPs daughter is in a Gaelscoil and that goes with their ideology, it is to be expected. But it should not be such a harsh rule that if the child doesn't like it they still have to have it. I would talk to the teacher or principle and if they disagree because it's the schools policy you signed up too then they are pretty stubborn bhastards and I wouldn't like my children being taught in a school with such rigid philosophies.

MadsL

ibarelycare wrote: »

Well wouldn't it make sense to nip it in the bud nice and early, in case difficulties arise down the road?

Which is what I'm looking into - no point ringing the school about what they verbally call her if I have to do some politicking about her records.

username123 wrote: »

Is this an accurate summary:

Child named on birthcert FirstnameEnglish MaternalSurnameIrish PaternalSurnameEnglish.
Child drops PaternalSurnameEnglish herself.
Primary school uses FirstnameEnglish MaternalSurnameIrish.
Secondary School uses FirstnameIrish MaternalSurnameIrish.

There was a bit of FirstnameEnglish MaternalSurnameEnglish in there too at one point.

OP is worried about greencards and passports and that his daughter will want to change her name at 18 to something else? (not too clear on that bit).

She will probably use FirstnameEnglish MaternalSurnameIrish once she is 18 to normalise what her common usage is. School records are NOT this format however.

The passport greencard problem has nothing to do with what the secondary school uses for the Firstname - the problem already existed when OPs daughter dropped PaternalSurnameEnglish.

Perhaps.

Whats the issue with what she is called in Secondary School? There is no legal issue. She just doesnt like it.

There is if she wants/need to use School records for her 2 years common usage as they don't match.

Why dont you set her a good example and tell her to appreciate her good education and not be bothering about silly things.

Because it is not silly and is not upsetting her.

On changing her name at 18 - will it be something different to either birthcert or school names?

Yes.

Why not bring her to a solicitor on her 18th birthday and do a name change by deed poll to whatever she wants and then produce that as the legal document.

That is an option I had not considered.

Iwasfrozen

LordSutch wrote: »

Don't know if this has been taclked already, but can they Gaelicise any name from any country? Obviously Irish/Englash/Scottish names can all be given the Gaelscoil treatment by adding an O plus a couple of fadas, but what about Polish, Thai & African names? can they also be gaelicised?

Nope, another example of the latent hypocrisy.

LordSutch

Don't know if this has been taclked already, but can they Gaelicise any name from any country? Obviously Irish/Englash/Scottish names can all be given the Gaelscoil treatment by adding an O plus a couple of fadas, but what about Polish, Thai & African names? can they also be gaelicised?

Oranage2

MadsL wrote: »

What on earth?

You finding it comfy under that bridge?

Yep sure your beside me.

Did I see right that she likes her second name in Irish but not her first?

Defiler Of The Coffin

MadsL wrote: »

OK Ill pick one of Lily, Daisy, Rose and the like and slap it on the poor girl for the rest of her education. That OK?

Dude, I'd really like to discuss this in an adult fashion with you but you're making it very difficult. Chill out.

username123

Is this an accurate summary:

Child named on birthcert FirstnameEnglish MaternalSurnameIrish PaternalSurnameEnglish.
Child drops PaternalSurnameEnglish herself.
Primary school uses FirstnameEnglish MaternalSurnameIrish.
Secondary School uses FirstnameIrish MaternalSurnameIrish.

OP is worried about greencards and passports and that his daughter will want to change her name at 18 to something else? (not too clear on that bit).

The passport greencard problem has nothing to do with what the secondary school uses for the Firstname - the problem already existed when OPs daughter dropped PaternalSurnameEnglish.

Whats the issue with what she is called in Secondary School? There is no legal issue. She just doesnt like it. Why dont you set her a good example and tell her to appreciate her good education and not be bothering about silly things.

On changing her name at 18 - will it be something different to either birthcert or school names?

Why not bring her to a solicitor on her 18th birthday and do a name change by deed poll to whatever she wants and then produce that as the legal document.

MadsL

Oranage2 wrote: »

is your daughter an only child op?

What on earth?

You finding it comfy under that bridge?

MadsL

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Probably not, as Flower wouldn't usually be seen as an 'acceptable' translation for Bláthín when using her name in a different language.

OK Ill pick one of Lily, Daisy, Rose and the like and slap it on the poor girl for the rest of her education. That OK?

Oranage2

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Let me tell you, coming on to boards.ie questioning anything to do with Irish language policy is not the way to go about that.

Thank you for telling me

is your daughter an only child op?

ibarelycare

MadsL wrote: »

Because I haven't yet established what records she will need and she hasn't yet taken exams.

Well wouldn't it make sense to nip it in the bud nice and early, in case difficulties arise down the road?

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

In other words, I can't back up what I said so I am going to deflect. :rolleyes:

You are still trying to derail. Anything you care to share on the topic instead?

MadsL

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

All this however is academic without the OP telling us his daughter's name in English and what the school are calling her in Irish. I understand he doesn't want to tell us but without this context it's hard to keep it all rational. Especially for people who aren't into closely reading threads

It would be very silly of me to do that in a country as small as Ireland. I trust you can think of your own examples.

Dan_Solo

Oranage2 wrote: »

The op just wants to hear similar opinions that he has.

Let me tell you, coming on to boards.ie questioning anything to do with Irish language policy is not the way to go about that.

reprazant

MadsL wrote: »

Not biting.

Go derail some other thread.

In other words, I can't back up what I said so I am going to deflect. :rolleyes:

MadsL

ibarelycare wrote: »

He said he isn't going to do anything unless it starts upsetting his daughter. So why complain about something that might very well be a serious issue down the line, when a simple email/phonecall/meeting can sort it out?

Because I haven't yet established what records she will need and she hasn't yet taken exams.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Seachmall wrote: »

It's fine when the person themselves changes their name but not when someone else just arbitrarily starts calling them a different name.

Answer me this,

Seachmall wrote:

I know a girl called Bláthín, should I address her as "Flower" from now on because I only speak English with her?

Probably not, as Flower wouldn't usually be seen as an 'acceptable' translation for Bláthín when using her name in a different language.

However, change that to 'David' for 'Daithí' and my answer is different. I think that's acceptable. It's all about what the generally accepted translation is and whether it sounds 'correct' or not. It's all about the semantics and the conventions involved with the languages. That might seem nonsensical to you but that's just the way it is.

All this however is academic without the OP telling us his daughter's name in English and what the school are calling her in Irish. I understand he doesn't want to tell us but without this context it's hard to keep it all rational. Especially for people who aren't into closely reading threads

MadsL

Oranage2 wrote: »

The op just wants to hear similar opinions that he has.

hug?

ibarelycare

Dan_Solo wrote: »

It sounds like the OP is doing exactly that by asking for opinions here? From what I gather the kid has to worry about this in 4 years. No panic yet, but why not see if anybody else has anything relevant to add?

He said he isn't going to do anything unless it starts upsetting his daughter. So why complain about something that might very well be a serious issue down the line, when a simple email/phonecall/meeting can sort it out?

MadsL

reprazant wrote: »

It what way have a I sneered, belittled or been condescending to you, Mads?

Or is pointing out that I find your style of posting to defensive, belittling and condescending now a form of sneering, belittled or acting in a condescending fashion?

Not biting.

Go derail some other thread.

Oranage2

Dan_Solo wrote: »

It sounds like the OP is doing exactly that by asking for opinions here? From what I gather the kid has to worry about this in 4 years. No panic yet, but why not see if anybody else has anything relevant to add?

The op just wants to hear similar opinions that he has.

MadsL

ibarelycare wrote: »

Then why on earth aren't you addressing it now if you foresee it being an issue?

I am, I sought the wise and patient understanding of AH

The passport thing has only just come up, but it adds another fecking name to deal with!!

And don't get me started on how you renew a passport of a child who lives in a different country...passport office have me running in 3 directions. I'm filling out two forms just in case.