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My LS430 - Converted to LPG - Review

daRobot

With all the threads on LPG appearing here recently, I though i'd go into a bit of detail about my experience in getting my 2004 4.3 V8 LS430 converted.

I wasn't the typical high miles user, who would get their car converted, but paying 1.60 at the pump each time stung (130+ refills), and half price fuel was beginning to sound more appealing. I worked out that once I had used the LPG equivalent of 16 tanks of petrol, the conversion would have already paid for itself.

So who to choose was the first question, as there's quite a few installers now, and thankfully for the consumer the prices are really competitive. I was quoted between 950e and 1700e, but knowing that a bad installation would be a total nightmare (as a few guys on the lexus uk forum had highlighted), the most important thing to me was the experience of the fitters and crucially, the components used.

I got stuck into the various Lpg forums for a few days, finding out what was decent, and what wasn't, so i'd know what I was talking about when ringing around.

In the end, I decided to go for LPGAIN in Tallaght(www.lpgain.com), with my reasons being: Their main installer (Marcin) has done hundreds of installations in Poland and came over specifically to work with this business when it was created, so it wasn't just some newly trained guy.

Secondly, one of the most important parts of the installation is the Injectors that are used. LPGAIN use Korean made HANA injectors, which are basically the top brand along with the Japanese made Keihin. This was a big factor in choosing them.

Also the ECU system used, which is a multipoint STAG -300 Premium (Polish brand) is a really well regarded system, and suitable for a lot of fine tuning & adjustments. Again, to probably bore you with the technical details, but STAG also are one of the first companies to make a system for direct petrol injection engines, which is reassuring in relation to their R&D perspective and quality.

I left the car with them about a week before Christmas, and got the car back 3 days later. I've got to say i'm absoltely delighted with the standard of the work. Here's a few pics.

The premises in Tallaght:

Where you fill up (Takes a bit longer than petrol, about 4 mins to fill the tank):

78 Litre tank in the spare wheel well (fills to about 64 litres, as tanks have 20% expansion room for safety):

Installation with engine cover removed (pic lifted from their site):

Engine cover back on:

Filler placed by petrol cap:

Guage placed by steering wheel:

So basically, there's nothing really to do, the system is automated. The car starts on petrol, and the little light on the guage blinks, and in about 2 minutes (when cold) it switches over to LPG. It's seamless, and you wouldn't notice the change. Once the car is warm, it starts on LPG. Once it's run out, it switches back to petrol seamlessly (albeit with a beep from the gauge)

I read that lots of LPG users get about 20% less MPG. I can't say that's been my experience so far. I've probably get about 5% less, going from 17mpg in town, to 16mpg (total stop start driving). Motorway has gone from 29mpg to 28mpg, so it's not a noticable difference. Power feels just the same, and i've certainly not noticed any loss of power.

I've done a few hundred miles since the conversion, and i'm feeling like a proper smug b*llox, getting a petrol equivalent of 55mpg on the motorway and 30+ in town, in a 4.3 liter V8

If you live anwhere near a filling station, it's a no brainer. My conversion cost was 1100 euro with a full tank of fuel, and first years service for free (they had a promotion at the time which I think is still running), and while driving 10-15 minutes out of the way to fill up, isn't ideal, as I said to my mate the other day: If you heard a petrol station 15 minutes away was doing half price fuel, you'd go, wouldn't you?

www.lpgain.com are the company I used, and i'd highly recommend them.

Hope this helps anyone who is on the fence about a conversion.

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Comments

mullingar

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

Well our pals in revenue can't "dip" gas? All smart ars@ comments aside how can the Feds regulate this?

In a nutshell, they cant. Revenue have no method to tell the difference between duty paid and non duty paid LPG.

jca

Does the supplier charge the extra road fuel duty?

Basil Fawlty

Its cheap enough stop trying to find a scam. Give it time and it will be back in petrol stations.

BorneTobyWilde

Could a semi truck run on lpg?
Full lpg instead of diesel?

mullingar

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Could a semi truck run on lpg?
Full lpg instead of diesel?

Not fully as a diesel has no source of ignition ie, a sparkplug. There are kits that make diesels run on a 50/50 mix and the lpg is ignited by the self ignition of diesel.

Edit, here is a better explanation:
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/diesel-caution.html

BorneTobyWilde

mullingar wrote: »

Not fully as a diesel has no source of ignition ie, a sparkplug. There are kits that make diesels run on a 50/50 mix and the lpg is ignited by the self ignition of diesel.

Edit, here is a better explanation:
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/diesel-caution.html

Ok then, Is there a gas engine that can replace the engine in a semi truck,
say a 500 hp swap

BorneTobyWilde

http://www.westport-hd.com/

I guess there is such an engine
That would save a fortune in a semi truck here

Bandara

Basil Fawlty wrote: »

Its cheap enough stop trying to find a scam. Give it time and it will be back in petrol stations.

I don't think it will, not for a very very long time

Basil Fawlty

Keep the faith. I have two cars that run on LPG. Two years ago the nearest place to me in Dun Laoghaire was Newbridge, now there are stations in Bray, Tallaght and Finglas. I know they are not in petrol stations but give it time.

aidanki

whats happens with car insurance if you are running on gas?

does the price go up much, you obviously would have to tick the car is modified box when filling out the form

one last question, is it possible to fill up from a gas cyclinder that I buy from local shop, ie the gas that I use to power a gas cooker?

mullingar

aidanki wrote: »

whats happens with car insurance if you are running on gas?

does the price go up much, you obviously would have to tick the car is modified box when filling out the form

one last question, is it possible to fill up from a gas cyclinder that I buy from local shop, ie the gas that I use to power a gas cooker?

The insurance should not go up as its not a performance midification, its only a secondary fuel.

And yes, you can fill with the big red propane cylinders (NOT the yellow), buy a small lpg transfer pump and place the cylinder upsidedown so liquid comes out rather than the vapour take off. The problem is that it works out to be much dearer per litre than the petrol station.

Edit, assuming that a 47kg propane cylinder is €125 (Example)

47kg propane is 94 litres of LPG, that equates to €1.33 litre.

I just googled the UK price which is £60, or roughly €70, yes, thats HALF the price to here. Calor/Flogas are such robbers! If we had the UK price, thats just 75c/litre!!!

Edit 2. Gas in UK attracts a 5% VAT, its 13.5% here,

UK: Including tax is €70, roughly €67 ex vat.
ROI: Including tax is €125, roughly €110 ex vat.........Thats some feckin mark up, cnuts

aidanki

whats flashlube that I see mentioned with regard to LPG conversions

are there any extra filters or any extra servicing associated with this LPG conversion

Matt Simis

aidanki wrote: »

whats flashlube that I see mentioned with regard to LPG conversions

are there any extra filters or any extra servicing associated with this LPG conversion

In all fairness, can you not read the thread and the others here and maybe google Flashlube? Its all been discussed here, in this thread and forum fairly recently.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Flashlube

Coming in with piles of easily searchable one liner questions is just a waste of everyones time, yours included.

jca

Matt Simis wrote: »

In all fairness, can you not read the thread and the others here and maybe google Flashlube? Its all been discussed here, in this thread and forum fairly recently.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Flashlube

Coming in with piles of easily searchable one liner questions is just a waste of everyones time, yours included.

Thank you, someone with sense.:)

sorel

if somebady wants to see car converted to LPG after crash go to lpgain website www.lpgain.com

[Deleted User]

sorel wrote: »

if somebady wants to see car converted to LPG after crash go to lpgain website www.lpgain.com

Impressed !

I take it she rolled ?

Who's car was that ? Driver o.k ?

sorel

Deleted User wrote: »

Impressed !

I take it she rolled ?

Who's car was that ? Driver o.k ?

This is the description of the photos, so I guess driver OK

"This is a car converted with our partner from Cork. Unfortunately, after a few weeks car had an accident with a powerful blow to the back of the car. In the pictures you can see that the tank was not damaged, and the vehicle's owner decided to remove the STAG autogas system and install it to a new car".

oneD

If somebody has any experience with LPG- no matter whether good or bad, please write on this topic here. It will surely help others
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84140545#post84140545

who_ru

Hi.

I'm driving a Mazda 6 1.8 Petrol 2009.

getting the conversion done next wednesday 24/04 with LPGain in Tallaght.

the cost is 1000 euros with the tank going in the spare wheel well - will just have to get used to driving without a spare i guess.

the flashlube system will cost an extra 50 bucks the lads told me so i will opt for that system.

i probably do approx 10,000 km per year, about 90% urban driving.

the lucky thing for me is that there is now a refill station point on the N4 in Palmerstown, just behind Aldi, you can see it from the road, on the left, heading into town. i'm in chapelizod so very handy, other than that i could go to Finglas to fill up.

my insurance company, FBD require a report from LPGain after the system is installed but nothing more.

will report back after conversion is done.

p.s. - the Irish Govt is not even remotely serious about protecting the environment. If it was then your motor tax should be adjusted accordingly after the conversion to LPG is done, as it is in the UK, where conversion to LPG is encouraged.

Kenny Logins

oneD wrote: »

If somebody has any experience with LPG- no matter whether good or bad, please write on this topic here. It will surely help others
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84140545#post84140545

There's a pretty long thread already, here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84142011

mullingar

I see that LPG crowd in Cork have a short youtube video for a converted Lexus LS460.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDM47xxi7WI

This is very interesting as that engine has the Toyota FSE system, ie a duel injection system per cylinder, one direct and the other the traditional non-direct.

sorel

mullingar wrote: »

I see that LPG crowd in Cork have a short youtube video for a converted Lexus LS460.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDM47xxi7WI

This is very interesting as that engine has the Toyota FSE system, ie a duel injection system per cylinder, one direct and the other the traditional non-direct.

and more interesting thing is that this engine was converted with completely no suitable autogas system for this engine. People like that probably work for petrol company and want to kill LPG in Ireland

dh0011

sorel wrote: »

and more interesting thing is that this engine was converted with completely no suitable autogas system for this engine. People like that probably work for petrol company and want to kill LPG in Ireland

sorel, why cant this engine be converted?

sorel

dh0011 wrote: »

sorel, why cant this engine be converted?

it can be converted with stable KIT, but there is not system for this engine on the market yet.

dh0011

You might be able to answer a question for me sorel. I was thinking about converting my car a 1.6 avensis. Some say it will end up a disaster with me needing to replace the head others say it will be fine. I was talking to some lads who fit lpg kits. They all said that it is perfectly safe if I but their most expensive option. I am not sure if they are being honest or pulling a fast one.
Your advice would be appreciated.

sorel

dh0011 wrote: »

You might be able to answer a question for me sorel. I was thinking about converting my car a 1.6 avensis. Some say it will end up a disaster with me needing to replace the head others say it will be fine. I was talking to some lads who fit lpg kits. They all said that it is perfectly safe if I but their most expensive option. I am not sure if they are being honest or pulling a fast one.
Your advice would be appreciated.

If you want to convert direct injection engine you have to use suitable Kit for this. If there is no direct injection do this with any good conversion center. firstly make sure about experience. many of them will try to convert new engine with first generation autogas system

dh0011

sorel wrote: »

If you want to convert direct injection engine you have to use suitable Kit for this. If there is no direct injection do this with any good conversion center. firstly make sure about experience. many of them will try to convert new engine with first generation autogas system

Thanks sorel

jca

who_ru wrote: »

Hi.

I'm driving a Mazda 6 1.8 Petrol 2009.

getting the conversion done next wednesday 24/04 with LPGain in Tallaght.

the cost is 1000 euros with the tank going in the spare wheel well - will just have to get used to driving without a spare i guess.

the flashlube system will cost an extra 50 bucks the lads told me so i will opt for that system.

i probably do approx 10,000 km per year, about 90% urban driving.

the lucky thing for me is that there is now a refill station point on the N4 in Palmerstown, just behind Aldi, you can see it from the road, on the left, heading into town. i'm in chapelizod so very handy, other than that i could go to Finglas to fill up.

my insurance company, FBD require a report from LPGain after the system is installed but nothing more.

will report back after conversion is done.

p.s. - the Irish Govt is not even remotely serious about protecting the environment. If it was then your motor tax should be adjusted accordingly after the conversion to LPG is done, as it is in the UK, where conversion to LPG is encouraged.

How much is LPG at your local station? There seems to huge variation in price all over the country.

mickman

have you read this

http://www.amrautos.co.uk/index.php/lpg-systems

who_ru

jca wrote: »

How much is LPG at your local station? There seems to huge variation in price all over the country.

0.85 cents per litre.

the more i think about it the more i'm leaning to getting the larger tank installed which has a 130 litre capacity, so a max 80% fill will hold 104 litres. boot space will have to be sacrificed but the spare wheel can stay.

the other tank that goes into the spare wheel well has an 80 litre capacity, so a max 80% fill can hold 64 litres. but boot space isn't affected.

the bigger tank means less trips to the filling station so it has it's advantages.