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What good is an Arts Degree?

starlit

Why do some employers diss Arts Degrees some and some don't? Why do others look down on it while others take it up as a degree? They can still do a postgrad in something more specific or in another discipline? Either branch out or do something different in the hope of a job.

Some people have no choice but to do further study or go into a different profession after Arts that is understandable. Going abroad for jobs is another option for the lack of jobs for Arts students.

Often or not people aren't sure what they want to do or know they want to engage with their favourite subject or teach. What's wrong with an Arts Degree compared to a more specified Bach of Science, business, engineering etc.

Does an Arts Degree not broaden the mind a bit and do subjects you like and figure out what subjects you like/don't like. You are more likely to decide on subject areas/job areas you can focus on after the degree by having touched on a variety of subjects.

Is variety not the spice of life and beneficial for making the right career choices or is it true what they say in the article from the Irish Times there are too many Arts Grads and not enough from science/computer disciplines leading to skills shortages and not enough qualified applicants? There are employers who would credit someone from Arts courses but why such harshness on those that have Arts not likely to get jobs unless they try something else and not likely to get jobs in traditional jobs any more. Which is a shame that traditional jobs are slowly going.

Then again there are jobs now that didn't exist 10 years ago and jobs that don't exist yet, can the education system prepare those for jobs that don't exist? Would it not be better to stick with traditional jobs for now until the recession lets up when ever that be or is science and technology really our future and traditional jobs be wiped out eventually which couldn't possibly happen surely, we will always need gardai, nurses, doctors and teachers.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2013/0205/1224329650185.html?via=mr

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starlit

Lower costs, profits and long term investment when it comes to hires is a major thing then?

Well some people have general Arts degrees others are just BA's but still Arts courses but wouldn't be specifically arts as part of their title except for BA added with a specific title.

I think knowing or thinking what you know is the right course for you but may or may not be the right choice but knowing what you want as a career is half the battle.

Mardy Bum

dlouth15 wrote: »

Reserve third level for subjects a) where there is a direct national priority and b) if it is for arts, it should be for those with a distinct talent for those subjects, not for those who just think they need some form of degree because everyone else is doing one.

I agree with your whole point until your conclusion. You don't know what an Arts degree actually is it seems. It could be in economics, literature, history, philosophy, music, languages etc rather than Art as in illustrations, painting etc.

There is a massive priority for a highly literate and critical workforce. Those with a good arts degree are needed.

dlouth15

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I agree with your whole point until your conclusion. You don't know what an Arts degree actually is it seems. It could be in economics, literature, history, philosophy, music, languages etc rather than Art as in illustrations, painting etc.

There is a massive priority for a highly literate and critical workforce. Those with a good arts degree are needed.

Of course I know that it is not just art as in painting etc. I used the example of French literature in my post for example.

I agree that there is value to a good arts degree. My point was that we don't need as many places as we currently have. Reserve the course for those with real talent. All you need to do is cut the number of places. The points required and the prestige of the courses themselves will then increase and the quality of those trying to get into the courses will likewise increase.

Mardy Bum

dlouth15 wrote: »

Of course I know that it is not just art as in painting etc. I used the example of French literature in my post for example.

I agree that there is value to a good arts degree. My point was that we don't need as many places as we currently have. Reserve the course for those with real talent. All you need to do is cut the number of places. The points required and the prestige of the courses themselves will then increase and the quality of those trying to get into the courses will likewise increase.

The more places the better. It means a more literate and well educated nation. Obviously with budget issues the figures are hard to balance but as I said those who slag the degree are not to be taken seriously. It does leave it hard to get a job but in all seriousness any job is hard got these days. For the value of education rather than a qualification an arts degree is very valuable.

Fox_In_Socks

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

And we'll be a very bland and uninteresting nation.

Are you assuming otherwise at present?:pac:

dlouth15

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

And we'll be a very bland and uninteresting nation.

Possibly if we dropped arts degrees altogether yes. But what I was arguing for was a re-balancing. When I was in school almost all the academically gifted went for medicine or law, two highly specialized areas. The reason they didn't go for arts was because partly because it was too easy to get into and therefore the value of it in their eyes was not there. Arts was seen as a sort of sink for those who didn't have the points for anything else. Sure, better than no degree, but not as good as medicine, law, or whatever.

What I'd like to see is a system balanced in such a way that those who went into medicine did so because they were actually interested in that subject, not merely because it was high points, well paid and prestigious.

Likewise, for arts, I'd like to see those doing, say, Russian literature, history or whatever being done by those who had a passion for it as opposed to those who couldn't get something "better".

dlouth15

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The more places the better. It means a more literate and well educated nation. Obviously with budget issues the figures are hard to balance but as I said those who slag the degree are not to be taken seriously. It does leave it hard to get a job but in all seriousness any job is hard got these days. For the value of education rather than a qualification an arts degree is very valuable.

I agree with most of your post except the start where you say "the more places the better". I think that by reducing places you will start to see those fewer places valued more highly by those who strive to get into them and a much higher proportion of those will go on to make contributions in the areas they have studied thus contributing to the cultural life of the country.

As for the general education of the population, I think far to much attention is paid to third level. Far more beneficial to put resources into primary and secondary.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

Are you assuming otherwise at present?:pac:

Having been away for a few years, it's difficult to assume anything.

dlouth15 wrote: »

Possibly if we dropped arts degrees altogether yes. But what I was arguing for was a re-balancing. When I was in school almost all the academically gifted went for medicine or law, two highly specialized areas. The reason they didn't go for arts was because partly because it was too easy to get into and therefore the value of it in their eyes was not there. Arts was seen as a sort of sink for those who didn't have the points for anything else. Sure, better than no degree, but not as good as medicine, law, or whatever.

What I'd like to see is a system balanced in such a way that those who went into medicine did so because they were actually interested in that subject, not merely because it was high points, well paid and prestigious.

Likewise, for arts, I'd like to see those doing, say, Russian literature, history or whatever being done by those who had a passion for it as opposed to those who couldn't get something "better".

This is the probelm I have with "education". Education is something you do to improve yourself, not because you want a job.

And before someone jumps on me, no, I am not suggsting we resturcture the entire applications process. Just that people need to differentiate between education and training.

Boombastic

There are no other ways of learning a language, learning about other cultures, learning about history or studying literature, learning the fundamentals of fine art without doing a 3 year degree course

Pilotdude5

If I had my way there would be no degrees. People would just have their relevant science qualification, dentistry, engineering etc. No degree is the same anyway.

A pet peeve of mine is someone telling me they have a degree and I have to ask: "In what?"
That's the important bit!

DylanII

I hate the fact that my degree is technically an arts degree. Im doing a BA in Finance (BA as with most degrees is a bachelor of arts)

Im technically an arts student

- Something I didnt know until I got my student card (which says arts on it) and I went to complain saying Im doing finance. They did change it to 'Arts (Finance)' but wouldnt remove the arts.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Boombastic wrote: »

There are no other ways of learning a language, learning about other cultures, learning about history or studying literature, learning the fundamentals of fine art without doing a 3 year degree course

Could say the exact same thing about training for a career, in all fairness. How much the syllabus in the more "practical" degrees is actuall necessary for the job?

dlouth15

Boombastic wrote: »

There are no other ways of learning a language, learning about other cultures, learning about history or studying literature, learning the fundamentals of fine art without doing a 3 year degree course

Yes, there's nothing to stop people doing night classes in art or simply picking up a book on history and reading it for pleasure.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Could say the exact same thing about training for a career, in all fairness. How much the syllabus in the more "practical" degrees is actuall necessary for the job?

A lot more could be done with apprenticeship schemes with an academic component and exams. In the past people became solicitors this way without any law degree. Whether or not that is practical today, it should certainly be possible to train into the financial services or IT that way.

danslevent

DylanII wrote: »

I hate the fact that my degree is technically an arts degree. Im doing a BA in Finance (BA as with most degrees is a bachelor of arts)

Im technically an arts student - Something I didnt know until I got my student card (which says arts on it) and I went to complain saying Im doing finance. They did change it to 'Arts (Finance)' but wouldnt remove the arts.

Get over yourself.

danslevent

DylanII wrote: »

I hate the fact that my degree is technically an arts degree. Im doing a BA in Finance (BA as with most degrees is a bachelor of arts)

Im technically an arts student - Something I didnt know until I got my student card (which says arts on it) and I went to complain saying Im doing finance. They did change it to 'Arts (Finance)' but wouldnt remove the arts.

It would be funny if your friends nicknamed you "arts"

Madam_X

I could only have done arts. I've often thought about what other undergrad I'd have done, and it always goes back to arts. Certainly wasn't a "just for the sake of going to university but if I had the points I'd do law or whatever" scenario. Got accepted for commerce (don't know why I put that down on the CAO; just another option I suppose) but would never have done it.
Arts is very intensive with a huge workload - it's not a degree for dummies; if anything, it requires far more critical thinking than some more "credible" disciplines.
The reason the points are relatively low is due to the high number of places.

I did a more practical postgrad but it was still fairly artsy. No regrets.

Mardy Bum

DylanII wrote: »

I hate the fact that my degree is technically an arts degree. Im doing a BA in Finance (BA as with most degrees is a bachelor of arts)

Im technically an arts student - Something I didnt know until I got my student card (which says arts on it) and I went to complain saying Im doing finance. They did change it to 'Arts (Finance)' but wouldnt remove the arts.

You have more to worry about if you thing this will affect the perception of your degree. Employers look at the institution and the course modules not the name of the degree. If you want a Master's degree in Economics from UCD you will get an MA as well.

XxMCRxBabyxX

Some of the most senior Partners in the top law firms in Ireland hold Arts degrees. I'm sure they are totally regretting their "useless" degrees right now...

Wompa1

Madam_X wrote: »

Arts is very intensive with a huge workload - it's not a degree for dummies; if anything, it requires far more critical thinking than some more "credible" disciplines.

Like what disciplines? I lived with somebody who did Arts and also went out with a couple of Arts students. The workload wasn't all that intense, in National University of Ireland in Galway at least...

danslevent

Wompa1 wrote: »

Like what disciplines? I lived with somebody who did Arts and also went out with a couple of Arts students. The workload wasn't all that intense, in National University of Ireland in Galway at least...

This annoys me so much. I am doing an Arts degree and I have a massive workload. Since I have been back in college I have had an essay due every week, one which I had to orally present to the class. The week before we left I had three exams and two 2,500 word essays due.

I live in a house where I am the only Arts student and I have the earliest starts, I am always up before everyone else.

This constant superior attitude of people annoys me so much. People think because they are doing their Commerce or whatever they are so much better. Even when I say i have an essay or exam people just think it must be different to all other University level essays because its set in an Arts degree, and must be really easy with no standards.

When people ask what degree I'm doing I always proudly say Arts because I think it is important, worthwhile and just such a stimulating course. I love what I learn every day, and I have a active interest. At least those poeple have their superior attitudes to comfort them as they grind their way through degree they have no interest in because they want a "proper degree".

Corkfeen

Wompa1 wrote: »

Like what disciplines? I lived with somebody who did Arts and also went out with a couple of Arts students. The workload wasn't all that intense, in National University of Ireland in Galway at least...

I would be studying English and History, in my final year and it's rather intense in terms of a workload. This term I have around 20k(may be more you, lose count) in words to write plus research and reading to do. You could pass if you put minimal work into it but getting a first class or a 2.1 is going to require a lot of work.

anncoates

Shocking as it may seem, it's enjoyable to study something you're actually interested in and provides some enlightenment and enjoyment.

You can always think about qualifying in something work-related later on or going on a graduate training scheme.

Does everything we do from cradle to grave have to be part of some horrible corporate requirements checklist?

Rasmus

Most employers won't diss an Arts degree on account that it is an Arts degree - they might question it's value if it is a stand-alone qualification, as most good jobs now require a masters level of expertise, or at least some working knowledge in the field.
I don't understand people or employers who judge an Arts degree as 'artsy' or consider it useless. Leaving college with an honours degree in politics or economics is hardly a FETAC poetry writing course. It is all in a name.

Canard

I don't get how people can dismiss such a broad range of subjects, and honestly those people probably couldn't get an arts degree if they tried because they clearly don't know what it can entail. As said above, they're stimulating and enjoyable. For a few months I had Business and French down in Trinity on my CAO - I had never looked into the material and I was only doing it because I thought business would be useful, I liked French, and it was Trinity.
Now I'm studying (some of you may want to grab your sick buckets) modern languages in UCD. Thats a BA, but a huge amount of people can't do languages for the life of them. Not so easy now eh. :rolleyes:

An arts degree can be in maths, languages, economics, English, any number of useful things. As also said before, I wouldn't be surprised if 99% of arts dissers were people who did a course they hated to get a job they hated. People get too caught up in other people's life choices.

Boombastic

I love this assumption that if you didn't do Arts you are doing a course you hate to get a job you hate :rolleyes:

Phill Ewinn

farts degrees. you could become a comic writer OP and make jokes about farts

Canard

Boombastic wrote: »

I love this assumption that if you didn't do Arts you are doing a course you hate to get a job you hate :rolleyes:

Ah yes, excuse me, I've just met so many people with a burning passion for commerce in life. :rolleyes: I was actually making the assumption based on a couple of girls who were in one of my tutorials studying commerce. One mentioned she had never done business in school so I asked why she did the course, and they both replied "I dunno, thought it'd be a good degree to have", so it's not completely unfounded.

Drakares

Boombastic wrote: »

A philistine :eek:

Can I borrow you arts degree to wipe my tears? I believe they are good for that.......and no, I don't want fries with it

Ridiculous statements. I have an arts degree in IT Management. I'm fairly certain unless you're in a very well paid job that I earn more money than you, and speak more languages than you, and I'm 22.

So yes, I will have fries with that. Umad?

XxMCRxBabyxX

Patchy~ wrote: »

Ah yes, excuse me, I've just met so many people with a burning passion for commerce in life. :rolleyes: I was actually making the assumption based on a couple of girls who were in one of my tutorials studying commerce. One mentioned she had never done business in school so I asked why she did the course, and they both replied "I dunno, thought it'd be a good degree to have", so it's not completely unfounded.

There's a big difference between doing a degree for a "good degree" and ending up with a degree and job that you hate. One does not equal the other.

Boombastic

Drakares wrote: »

Ridiculous statements. I have an arts degree in IT Management. I'm fairly certain unless you're in a very well paid job that I earn more money than you, and speak more languages than you, and I'm 22.

So yes, I will have fries with that. Umad?

Pity your degree didn't teach you about jumping to conclusions, very poor standard