philologos wrote: » .............. Why? The red poppy is sufficient. It does what I need it to. I'm not so foaming at the mouth against the British army to do anything else. I don't wear it to glorify the British army, but to remember. That's all. I don't wear a lily because I don't see why the Easter Rising was such a great thing. It brought destruction to a city which largely didn't want it. If people think the Easter Rising is great, and so on, good on them. I don't share that view.
Nodin wrote: » But rather than wear a white poppy, you were a red one. You won't celebrate or remember a fight for independence, but will fund the veterans of brutal colonial regimes and condone imperialist nostalgia. Lovely.
golden lane wrote: » it's amazing what one euro can do...... what will happen if he buys two poppys............maybe another d-day landing........????
Aodh Rua wrote: » The irony of all this worldview needs to be commented upon. The above people, and others here, seem to want Irish people to buy a red poppy from the Royal British Legion because it symbolises the "fight against Hitler". What all of them omit to mention is that the Royal British Legion, the most British nationalist of organisations, was a huge supporter of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party, going as far as to organise hundreds of British Nazi sympathisers into a force known as the British Legion Volunteer Police Force to help the Nazis police the Sudetenland after Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938.Royal British Legion collaboration with Nazi Germany, 1938:Royal British Legion leaders meeting Nazi leaders in Germany, 1938Royal British Legion supporters training in London to fight for the Nazis, 1938 This attempt by poppy promoters and the Royal British Legion to cover up this historical reality and rewrite the widespread pro-Nazis sympathies in British society prior to WWII should not be allowed to pass by people who are genuinely concerned with historical truth.
Nodin wrote: » No, maybe some of it would go somebody who was involved in this...http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/cyprus-torture-victim-still-seeking-uk-apology#page1 or thishttp://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/05/world/europe/uk-kenya-colonial-case/index.html or various events up north.
golden lane wrote: » yes, and they would be set up for life.......or, would you prefer to take away someones right to freely chose........just like the empires did..... stop wasting your time posting history.....it is no secret......what both sides did.......
seanhalpin wrote: » Interesting how the only country to be an economic success was South Africa. I'll leave it up to the readers to figure why that was the case as i'd be accused of something if I gave the reason.
Nodin wrote: » ....yep. Some shower thought they could go abroad, slaugher the natives, and essentially rob the place. Yet here we are in the 21st century, and we've people apologising for international muggings.
bobbysands81 wrote: » Stunning ignorance, completely ignoring how Britain colonised these nations and how they maintained power there as well. Millions of people tortured, raped, imprisoned, murdered etc in the name of 'progress' and in taming the animals... but hey, they employed some of the locals as slaves so really they enlightened their colonies.
Aphex Tim wrote: » Go on ... tell us
seanhalpin wrote: » They were just and knew how to run a country.
seanhalpin wrote: » You cannot blame Britain alone. We were part of the UK and were fully involved in any empire building endevours: 12 Irish Regiments founght in the boer wars. Fusiliers arch in Stephens green was built to commemorate Dublin soldiers who were killed in South Africa. The Royal Irish Regiment were also largely responsible for laying waste to 6000 zulus armed with spears and arrows. Also a Tipperary man, Michael O'Dwyer, was a Lietenant Governor of Punjab province in th 1910's. While there he presided over the Jallianwala Bagh massacre where up to a thousand civilians were slaughtered in a punishment reprisal over a recent revolt. So you cannot pin it all on the British, we had our hands in the pie too.
seanhalpin wrote: » I can tell you if were were under France or Spain, we wouldn't have enjoyed such liberties. We'd be begging to join the UK.
karma_ wrote: » As for the infrastructure, today Ireland has a better infrastructure than much of the UK and the US.
bobbysands81 wrote: » Very selective memory. You conveniently forget how many Irish people have been killed by the hands of Brit forces. You seem to have the mindset of the abused wife always making excuses for the abusive husband after he hits her yet again.
golden lane wrote: » i am an irishman living in the uk......was it fair game for irishmen to kill my children.....????
karma_ wrote: » You're holding Ireland to a different standard. 1930's - The Great Depression - deepest depression of the 20th Century. Just about to kick-start WW2. Ireland was depressed before and after this period, and mass emigration. 1950's - Much of Europe destroyed - rebuilding after the War - let's kick off the Korean War - Cold War ramps up. Ireland continues to be depressed, more mass emigration. 1960's - The US still practice racial segregation, also starts fúckíng around in Vietnam, race riots galore. More depression and mass emigration. 1980's - yup you guessed it, another Recession, unbeknownst to yourself a worldwide one again. Depressed again and more mass emigration. 2000-2010 - Recession time again, this time it's a doozy which afflicts just about everyone. Ultimate depression, worse than many others due to it mostly self-inflicted, mass emigration again. As for the infrastructure, today Ireland has a better infrastructure than much of the UK and the US. That's hilarious
Sound of Silence wrote: » This is not the sole reason, but generally the Unionist Community tend to co-opt the commemorations in a manner that that seems to lend itself to a sort of Ulster-Scotch-centric "cultural expression", which in my view blurs the lines of integrity. If it's not the traditional laying of the wreath by members of the Orange Order, it's bizarre displays like this that seems to shake the line of who's service is being celebrated : http://tinyurl.com/ca55uye
Sound of Silence wrote: » The fact that a significant number of poster on this thread have begun to attack the idea of Irish Independence as being something which is entirely suspect and unnatural, will give you an idea of where the more vocal advocates of the commemorative Poppy tend to come from when they hope to pitch the idea to the Irish. That's simply my opinion.
Sound of Silence wrote: » Congratulations, your interest in fair and critical assessment lasted all of three lines before you presented us with the ultimate culprit in a conflict so twisted and convoluted that most Historians are hesitant to touch it.
Sound of Silence wrote: » I'm sure I can discover another way of honoring the dead of both World Wars which doesn't necessitate me wearing a Poppy.
Sound of Silence wrote: » http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81374251&postcount=161 I don't recall questioning your Irishness.
Sound of Silence wrote: » I believe that to be a Nationalist, one must at least be favorably disposed to the idea of a United Ireland. You can support the existence of the Irish Republic to some degree, but ultimately be Partitionist in nature, similar to the likes of Thomas Westropp Bennett and Conor Cruise O'Brien.
Sound of Silence wrote: » And before you say anything, I'm in no way claiming that you're not a Nationalist. I'm simply pointing something out in the interest of full disclosure.
Sound of Silence wrote: » If it's sufficient for you, then that's fine. It does not necessarily mean that I should also consider it to be a fair and acceptable compromise.
Sound of Silence wrote: » Bring the general outline of that argument to it's logical conclusion, then substitute the phrase "Easter Lilly" with "Commemorative Poppy", and the concern for the "Destruction of a City" with "violence and collusion" and you might begin to understand where I'm coming from.
philologos wrote: » It's not the concern. I don't consider the 1916 Rising as being hugely significant in securing Ireland's independence. I don't see it as being something that I would commemorate. Most Dubliners didn't want it at the time. I'm not hugely exercised by it, I just don't pay a whole lot of attention to it. I think there's a lot of propaganda surrounding it. Wearing the poppy does not mean that you support everything the British army did. What it does mean is that you'll remember those who died in the futility of war. At least that's how I understand it.
golden lane wrote: » i am an irishman living in the uk
golden lane wrote: » they want the british out of norther ireland........i am the british, it is my country..
Fratton Fred wrote: » you were doing ok up to this point :-P
philologos wrote: » Wearing the poppy does not mean that you support everything the British army did. What it does mean is that you'll remember those who died in the futility of war. At least that's how I understand it.
Japer wrote: » the vast number of Irish people who served in wars - hundreds of thousands of them - did so by volunteering and by wearing British army / navy / air force uniforms. Relatively few died in Russian uniforms, although a father of a friend was an Irish man who served on the (British) arctic convoys which supplied Russia in her hour of need.
