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Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

thecommietommy

After all it's for a foreign army, I don't see anyone wearing an emblem for the French, American, Spanish army. Ok some say it's for charity for injured British soldiers, but surely if they join up it's up to the British govt to properly look after them when they are injured and not pestering people expecting charity ?

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getz

over 120 countries around the world wear the poppy,as well as the usual commonwealth countries,it is also worn in the likes of spain, france, sri lanka, hong kong, and argentina and even if you dont like it many irish citizens will also have one on,

K-9

Fuinseog wrote: »

so what. the muppets died for nothing. irish men also died in the american civil war and the french foreign legion.

Seriously, cop on. Don't post in this thread again.

Ghost Buster

thecommietommy wrote: »

Very insightful input :rolleyes:

More insightful than you think. We have been here a thousand times. i now intend to read on and see how many posts it takes for the term "West Brit" to be used.:rolleyes:

getz

mattjack wrote: »

Its is indeed, especially when you consider that about 35,000 died and 210,000 enlisted ,there being no conscription in Ireland, more interesting too is the fact that 10% of Irelands male pop. fought bearing in my what a previous poster said about those that may have fought just fill their stomachs and earn a wage.

that was a half lie put out by those who could not stand the thought that a irishman would join the british army on his own free will, during the years of WW1 the UK male population was down by over half,the country was screaming for a workforce, many irishmen and some woman worked in britain, there was enough work for those who wanted it,but many preferred the excitement of a war ,that would be over in weeks.

gallag

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Some of my Uncles & Grand-uncles fought in the British Army. That was the done thing in those days. I would happily wear a poppy in remembrance of their actions. I am also a proud Nationalist & feel no conflict whatsoever.

I can't help but feel a special admiration for the 30, 000 Irish men that went to war when their country did not. I know for some it was about the money, but for most I like to think they done it to fight of a scurg against humanity. True hero's and as a brit I truly am thankful for their sacrifices and honestly feel that the poppy is for them as much as anyone,at least when it is pinned to my chest it is.

The thing about the poppy is its a symbol, I can't get my wife to watch a documentary about the war and children have no interest. Remembering the sacrifices is important and for a great many that is the simple action of putting on a poppy and bowing our head in silence and thanks.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if seeing a poppy makes you angry mabey the person wearing it has no agenda other than remembrance and thanks.

Jimoslimos

Lelantos wrote: »

Adolf Hitler ring a bell? No?

No, I checked. Must have been the wind.

Lelantos wrote: »

Darwin award winner here I believe

You do know what a 'Darwin Award' is?

The Poppy isn't a symbol of WWI and II war-dead (Irish or otherwise), it's a RBL trademark. They control who can or cannot sell it. Fair enough if the RBL is your chosen charity (personally I can think of far more worthy causes) but don't try kid yourself or anyone else that your gesture means anything to those who died in the World Wars.

Death and Taxes

Jimoslimos wrote: »

No, I checked. Must have been the wind.

You do know what a 'Darwin Award' is?

The Poppy isn't a symbol of WWI and II war-dead (Irish or otherwise), it's a RBL trademark. They control who can or cannot sell it. Fair enough if the RBL is your chosen charity (personally I can think of far more worthy causes) but don't try kid yourself or anyone else that your gesture means anything to those who died in the World Wars.

The poppy is to many many people a symbol of those who died, especially in ww1. Most people couldn't care who actually gets the money.

munchkin_utd

getz wrote: »

over 120 countries around the world wear the poppy,<snip>

interesting "fact"
Care to back it up with any references or links?
Thats a LOT of countries.

somairle

I'm from England and I've never worn one myself, it was never a big thing when I was growing up (that I remember) I asked my mum and grandma about them too and they don't recall it being mainstream when they were growing up. It seems like its the last few years it has become almost mandatory to wear one in the UK, that your somehow pissing on a grave if you don't.

I don't have any problem with them, I would probably wear one if I lived in England, but I just don't have any personal connection with the wars, my grandparents and great grandparents seemed to miss out on going to war because of their age. Saying that, I don't agree with the current wars and I resent (when I'm in England) being told via media/ public pressure I should wear one.

As for wearing them in Ireland, I think if people want to remember their own families sacrifices then they should be able to without being called unIrish or something, but I am glad there isn't the same peer pressure to wear one. It should be a personal choice

Jimoslimos

WileyCoyote wrote: »

The poppy is to many many people a symbol of those who died, especially in ww1. Most people couldn't care who actually gets the money.

Make your own and wear it then, or sell them for a neutral cause - see how long before RBL lawyers are knocking on your door.

I find it strange that people here can be critical because the Irish government gives millions in aid to an African country, Uganda, that spends billions on arms (including fighter jets) yet not bat an eyelid at fundraising for British soldiers.

Lelantos

Jimoslimos wrote: »

No, I checked. Must have been the wind.

You do know what a 'Darwin Award' is?

The Poppy isn't a symbol of WWI and II war-dead (Irish or otherwise), it's a RBL trademark. They control who can or cannot sell it. Fair enough if the RBL is your chosen charity (personally I can think of far more worthy causes) but don't try kid yourself or anyone else that your gesture means anything to those who died in the World Wars.

People gave their lives for something they believed in. If they hadnt in WWI or WWII the face of Europe would be much much different & don't kid yourself otherwise.
As for Darwin award, yes, I'm just hoping he proves me right in the future

doopa

This thread reminded me to head off to http://www.ppu.org.uk/ and purchase some white poppies. I'm not really a pacifist myself, but I support the sentiment that all victims of war should be remembered. Is the ultimate sacrifice less of a sacrifice if it was in Coventry during the Blitz?

Father Damo

I have met a few ex British soldiers in Australia in my time and some of them are not the sharpest tools in the drawer by a long shot. So why an Irishman would sign up to them is anybodys guess. (and before anyopne starts half my mates are English and I have no time for dissident republicans. But joining the British army, when you combine their history here with their recent adventures, ffs like)

Cant find it on youtube at all but there was a hilarious Ali G clip years ago where he was interviewing some very posh upper class retired British general who was none too impressed when Ali asked if it was true that to be accepted into the army you had to be a bit thick :pac:

partyguinness

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Dara O'Briain didn't wear one on British tv for awhile and then he did, there's obviously a lot of pressure put on tv presenters to wear one. I frankly think it's insane as an Irish person to wear one out of your own free will, it's commemorating British soldiers who have killed Irish people in Ireland, it also commemorates the soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan and all the other horrendous wars the British have fought in the name of imperialism.

I'd rather we commemorated the abuse victims of the church here in Ireland before we go wearing a badge that honors murder.

Well that's the hilarious irony. The soldiers apparently fought for freedon, democracy etc etc. But if you do not wear a poppy...God help you.

The poppy fascists will be out in full force. The same happened to Nadine Coyle..she didnt wear one and the complaints were flying in to BBC.

Wearing a poppy or an easter lilly is an individual choice rather than a national decision which seems to be the tone here.

But the annual "Who's got the biggest Poppy" is a bit tedious. It does reek of over compensating in some circles. Some veterans (I live in the UK) are disgusted by what they see as the hijacking of the symbol and that it has devalued the meaning.

It's no co-incidence that is now more in your face because of the wars in Iraq and Afganistan.

getz

munchkin_utd wrote: »

interesting "fact"
Care to back it up with any references or links?
Thats a LOT of countries.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15637074

Real Life

i wouldnt wear one but not because its british, i wouldnt wear it for the irish army either

jfallon

getz wrote: »

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15637074

The article mentions they are mostly worn in British ex-pat communities and to a lesser extent by some in former British Colonies!

Yamanoto

Father Damo wrote: »

So why an Irishman would sign up to them is anybodys guess. (and before anyopne starts half my mates are English and I have no time for dissident republicans. But joining the British army, when you combine their history here with their recent adventures, ffs like)

Guaranteed employment for 12 years, an Army pension, the probability of seeing 'action' plus a hiring-freeze in our own Defense Forces all go some way toward explaining the recent spike in applications from young Irish folk.

Wacker The Attacker

thecommietommy wrote: »

After all it's for a foreign army, I don't see anyone wearing an emblem for the French, American, Spanish army. Ok some say it's for charity for injured British soldiers, but surely if they join up it's up to the British govt to properly look after them when they are injured and not pestering people expecting charity ?

For whom hundreds and probably thousands of irish citizens have fought and died over the decades.

It's not something I'd do, but if somebody else were to choose to do I cant say I'd have a particular problem with it.

In certain cases injured soldiers are left to fend for themselves in life. If they were properly cared for in the first place by the people who employ them then the public wouldnt be in this position.

Father Damo

Yamanoto wrote: »

Guaranteed employment for 12 years, an Army pension, the probability of seeing 'action' plus a hiring-freeze in our own Defense Forces all go some way toward explaining the recent spike in applications from young Irish folk.

Doesnt the British army pay sh1te? I would frankly dismiss any Irishman joining them as an idiot tbf.

getz

jfallon wrote: »

The article mentions they are mostly worn in British ex-pat communities and to a lesser extent by some in former British Colonies!

let see former british colonies- america =in the united states the poppy has been their flower of rememberance since 1920,with a population well over 257,000,000, its hardly small fry, its not a british symbol [except in some irish eyes] invented in france and taken up all over the world,

partyguinness

Father Damo wrote: »

I have met a few ex British soldiers in Australia in my time and some of them are not the sharpest tools in the drawer by a long shot. So why an Irishman would sign up to them is anybodys guess. (and before anyopne starts half my mates are English and I have no time for dissident republicans. But joining the British army, when you combine their history here with their recent adventures, ffs like)

Cant find it on youtube at all but there was a hilarious Ali G clip years ago where he was interviewing some very posh upper class retired British general who was none too impressed when Ali asked if it was true that to be accepted into the army you had to be a bit thick :pac:

getz wrote: »

let see former british colonies- america =in the united states the poppy has been their flower of rememberance since 1920,with a population well over 257,000,000, its hardly small fry, its not a british symbol [except in some irish eyes] invented in france and taken up all over the world,

While it may not be a British symbol in the strict sense of the word, it is certainly the symbol of the RBL to raise money for ex British Army servicemen i.e. the Poppy Appeal.

With some considerable justification, it is inevitably linked and associated with British war commemorations. Perhaps one can argue that it has been hijacked by the RBL..!!

Correct me if I am wrong but the Poppy Appeal collects only for ex British Army personal?

munchkin_utd

getz wrote: »

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15637074

indeed, "3 million poppies are sent to 120 countries"
It doesnt mean that the folks from those countries are wearing them.
Its british+commonwealth people abroad who are wearing them.

I'm sure theres poppies going to china and japan and brazil and other countries like that far far away but I am also positive that their state emblem for remembering the dead is not a flower that signifies a connection to great losses on a battlefield in central europe.

Tayto crisps are probably sent to a great many countries, but it doesnt make it the national snack in half the world!

partyguinness

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.html

This article by the always lucid Mr Fisk sums my thoughts up.

You compare the solemn and dignified old soldiers remembering their friends slaughtered with the postering on the BBC, the £100k-a-week footballer swearing and spitting and wiping his mouth/nose inches from the Poppy which he probably knows nothing about.

That's the mockery in my eyes.

getz

partyguinness wrote: »

While it may not be a British symbol in the strict sense of the word, it is certainly the symbol of the RBL to raise money for ex British Army servicemen i.e. the Poppy Appeal.

With some considerable justification, it is inevitably linked and associated with British war commemorations. Perhaps one can argue that it has been hijacked by the RBL..!!

Correct me if I am wrong but the Poppy Appeal collects only for ex British Army personal?

no it also collects for those families of british service men and woman in need,all money raised in ireland stays in ireland and helps a lot of people,

Nodin

gallag wrote: »

...........

The thing about the poppy is its a symbol, I can't get my wife to watch a documentary about the war and children have no interest. Remembering the sacrifices is important and for a great many that is the simple action of putting on a poppy and bowing our head in silence and thanks.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if seeing a poppy makes you angry mabey the person wearing it has no agenda other than remembrance and thanks.

The money goes towards ex-members of the British army. The event is used to use sentiment towards earlier wars to back up recent military escapades.

If funding these lads doesn't bother you though, fire ahead...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/07/iraq-death-secret-detention-camp
http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/africa/cyprus-torture-victim-still-seeking-uk-apology

Guy:Incognito

Jimoslimos wrote: »

The OP may have an axe to grieve with the British but the point is a good one, regardless of political affiliation.

I don't agree with the wars British soldiers have been sent to serve in, I don't regard them as 'heroes' or people worth revering in any way.

Yep. they definately should have left Hitler to continue his good work in the continent, then handed over Britain (and Ireland) when he came knocking.

Nodin

getz wrote: »

no it also collects for those families of british service men and woman in need,all money raised in ireland stays in ireland and helps a lot of people,

O - so if they were battering Arabs, maiming Africans, kicking Iraqis, its allright if they're fellow paddys.

Stinicker

Why should any Irish person wear a poppy remembering the British Army and the atrocities they carried out all over this island. I would gladly wear an Easter lilly and remember the brave Irish men who fought the British Army.

partyguinness

getz wrote: »

no it also collects for those families of british service men and woman in need,all money raised in ireland stays in ireland and helps a lot of people,

Ok...it collects for ex British army personal AND their families. Splitting hairs does not make any difference.