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Garda Sergeant can't afford food

Dan133269

All the tales from people suffering from the recession have evoked different reactions from me, but this story really tugged at my heart strings. A working Garda sergeant is unable to feed his family.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1017/1224325341332.html

According to his wife:

The woman describes how a €1,400 monthly mortgage payment on a four-bedroom semi-detached family home bought seven years ago along with the repeated cuts to her husband’s wages have left them “living a nightmare”.

. . There are weeks when I can’t put food on the table. I call them ‘cornflakes days’ when all we eat all day is cornflakes . . .”

The woman wrote that even though her eldest child got enough points to go to a prestigious college they couldn’t afford the fees: “Imagine how upsetting that is?”

Her husband has gross earnings of more than €65,000 – including allowances and unsocial hours coverage. After tax, Universal Social Charge, pension, health insurance, mortgage and utility deductions, a typical weekly payslip shows a net payment of €109.

Where's a secret millionaire when you need them? Obviously I'm being sarcastic. This kind of whingeing really sickens me. There are people who are genuinely struggling, and this family making at least 65k a year gross (no mention on whether she's working or not) are moaning that they can't put food on the table. How in the name of god are they managing their finances?

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angelfire9

MagicSean wrote: »

It's not suitable for calculating a Gardas wage. Here's my own calculations.

Gross pay €47,314.95
Rent allowance €4,113.75
Boot allowance €123.04
Uniform allowance €226.00
Saturday allowance €538.46
Sunday allowance €4,367.53
Evening allowance €554.82
Night allowance €5,392.84
Total Income €62,631.39

Pension levy 5% 15001 -20,000 €250.00
Pension levy 10% up to 60k €4,000.00
Pension levy 10.5% on over 60k €276.30
Total pension levy €4,526.30

Taxable Income €58,105.09

PRSI (4% over 6,604) €2,060.04
USC 2% on €10,036 €200.72
USC 4% up to €16,016 €239.20
USC 7% over €16,016 €2,946.24
PAYE 20% €6,560.00
PAYE 41% €7,075.09
Pension contribution 5% €2,905.25
Basic Deductions €21,986.54

Net pay after basic deductions €36,118.55

Now take that as a weekly figure of €694.58 because gardai get payed weekly
Mortgage €323 a week
Net pay is now down to €371 per week
Medical Aid (which is not optional) 62.38 a week
Net pay now down to €309 or €1236 a month

Lets look at the Utility Bills
Mobile probably 30 quid a month (and thats being cheap) and yes a mobile is required for work
Eircom for broadband and house phone (The kids will want the internet for studying) 40 quid a month
Electricity 50 quid a month seem reasonable??
Gas or Home Heating lets allow another 50 quid a month
insurances (lets allow 400 a year for the car and 400 a year for the house being generous) say €70 a month (rounding up)

So that is bills of €240 a month
Leaving the family with €996 a month or 249 a week
petrol probably costs him 60 quid a week leaving him with 189

Not too far off the figure MABS looked at
And i haven't included a sky subscription
Or Bin Charges
Or the Household tax
And i've underestimated most of the bills

pickarooney

So how come everyone earning less than 30 grand a year isn't dead?

El Weirdo

angelfire9 wrote: »

Now take that as a weekly figure of €694.58 because gardai get payed weekly
Mortgage €323 a week
Net pay is now down to €371 per week
Medical Aid (which is not optional) 62.38 a week
Net pay now down to €309 or €1236 a month

Lets look at the Utility Bills
Mobile probably 30 quid a month (and thats being cheap) and yes a mobile is required for work
Eircom for broadband and house phone (The kids will want the internet for studying) 40 quid a month
Electricity 50 quid a month seem reasonable??
Gas or Home Heating lets allow another 50 quid a month
insurances (lets allow 400 a year for the car and 400 a year for the house being generous) say €70 a month (rounding up)

So that is bills of €240 a month
Leaving the family with €996 a month or 249 a week
petrol probably costs him 60 quid a week leaving him with 189

Not too far off the figure MABS looked at

Add the children's allowance for 3/4 kids (depending if the eldest is still in FTE) onto that.

bamboozle

angelfire9 wrote: »

Now take that as a weekly figure of €694.58 because gardai get payed weekly
Mortgage €323 a week
Net pay is now down to €371 per week
Medical Aid (which is not optional) 62.38 a week
Net pay now down to €309 or €1236 a month

Lets look at the Utility Bills
Mobile probably 30 quid a month (and thats being cheap) and yes a mobile is required for work
Eircom for broadband and house phone (The kids will want the internet for studying) 40 quid a month
Electricity 50 quid a month seem reasonable??
Gas or Home Heating lets allow another 50 quid a month
insurances (lets allow 400 a year for the car and 400 a year for the house being generous) say €70 a month (rounding up)

So that is bills of €240 a month
Leaving the family with €996 a month or 249 a week
petrol probably costs him 60 quid a week leaving him with 189

Not too far off the figure MABS looked at

you conveniently forgot mortgage interest relief 140 a month, children's allowance 422 a month that's an extra 165 to add to your 189 a week, leaving 354 a week to feed a family of 5.

Boohoo.

Forest Demon

The problem with this is the kind of bull**** story that casts doubt on genuine people struggling.

The only way they are struggling based on the figures shown even taking the mortgage into account is that they have a lot of private debt. If it is credit card, personal loans and car loans that are causing the issue then they need to sell some stuff and live within their means. The salary is not the issue. Its not the issue that they cannot live on a Garda salary.

The headline of "Garda borrowed too much and cannot live with debt" does not have the same ring to it.

What do they want? a rise to pay for more extravagance? Without a load of private debt the story does not make sense.

The salary is not the problem.

Heroditas

Also conveniently forgotten is the wife's tax credits which the husband would benefit from.

wendydoll

angelfire9 wrote: »

Eircom for broadband and house phone (The kids will want the internet for studying) 40 quid a month

Sorry now but kids will want the internet for study. Most of us here grew up without the internet and we all turned out ok. Easy come, easy go.

It would be nice to have the internet but I'd rather my kids have proper food in their bellies rather than access to the internet to "study/ facebook"

MagicSean

bamboozle wrote: »

you conveniently forgot mortgage interest relief 140 a month, children's allowance 422 a month that's an extra 165 to add to your 189 a week, leaving 354 a week to feed a family of 5.

Boohoo.

My mortgage is for 270k. I am on a low enough interest rate. Relief is deducted at source, It costs 1100 per month. 1400 is very likely to be the rate after relief is deducted for someone who bought in 2005.

Milk & Honey

hawkelady wrote: »

Afaik .... Guards are paid weekly.

Guards are paid weekly AND monthly. Basic pay is paid weekly and every month the additional allowances are paid.

El Weirdo

bamboozle wrote: »

you conveniently forgot mortgage interest relief 140 a month, children's allowance 422 a month that's an extra 165 to add to your 189 a week, leaving 354 a week to feed a family of 5.

Boohoo.

To be fair, they might not qualify for Mortgage TRS any longer as they did buy the house 7 years ago.

Still. Anyone that can't feed a family of 6 on ~300 quid per week is doing something drastically wrong. Many families survive on less.

Fishooks12

wendydoll wrote: »

Sorry now but kids will want the internet for study. Most of us here grew up without the internet and we all turned out ok. Easy come, easy go.

It would be nice to have the internet but I'd rather my kids have proper food in their bellies rather than access to the internet to "study/ facebook"

The internet is pretty crucial to education these days

Completely pathetic insinuation that the children would just use it for facebook too btw

PaulKK

bamboozle wrote: »

you conveniently forgot mortgage interest relief 140 a month, children's allowance 422 a month that's an extra 165 to add to your 189 a week, leaving 354 a week to feed a family of 5.

Boohoo.

Mortgage interest relief lasts 7 years so that would be finished.

There's also car tax and servicing, tv licence, tv subscription, kids school books, possibly management fees, bin charges etc to pay too.

Not saying its right or anything, but you could easily see how they would have 109 left for food per week.

Gumbo

K-9 wrote: »

I'm getting 43k here, mortgage of 17k still leaves 26k or 500 a week. I suppose if they've high travel and bills €100 a week to live on is very possible.

That incorrectly estimates my pay!
Dont think it works, or i may be doing something completely wrong!

Heroditas

Which "prestigious" university are the parents talking about?
It must be somewhere like Yale or Harvard because we don't have any prestigious universities in this country

Milk & Honey

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

A mortgage isnt essential.

They could rent for less than they are currently paying

Quite likely they are in negative equity (they bought in 2005) so can't sell and move.

the groutch

it's a case of either being hidden debt we're not being told about, or they're still living like it's 2005, and have been effectively burying their heads in the sand for the last 4 years.

Father Damo

The article seems to hint this as recession related.

If anything this Garda was almost certainly on a lower wage seven years ago when he bought the house than he is now

This family is likely taking in more per year than it was in the boom years when they bought the house!

I smell a rat.

K-9

kceire wrote: »

That incorrectly estimates my pay!
Dont think it works, or i may be doing something completely wrong!

Seems to leave out the old pension deduction.

ted1

IT says i get more than i get.

must look into it.

telecaster

pickarooney wrote: »

So how come everyone earning less than 30 grand a year isn't dead?

Its a good question.

Closest to a reasonable answer I can come up with is that someone earning that figure wouldnt have been given a mortgage that required repayments of Eur1,400 per month.

The other bills are uniform though (pun sort of intended)

Tombo2001

One thing that really gets on my goat is the constant reference to the gross salary of €65k. Obviously people in the private sector have no understanding of the scale of deductions from public service salaries, over and above private sector salaries.

But to put in simple terms, the net take home pay for a public servant on that salary is €37,500.

This is identical to the net take home pay that a private sector employee on €54,000 would receive.

Now I know only too well that a large part of the contribution is for the pension. But the pension has nothing to with their cost of living today.

The fact of the matter is that the pension deduction is very large, and unlike the private sector it is not tax deductible, and unlike the private sector it is non-discretionary.

In this case, the family is paying €17,000 a year on mortgage.

That leaves them €20,000 a year to live on. That is not a lot in this country.

It might seem like a lot if you are single and its pure disposable income.

But when you are trying to raise a family, it is not a lot.

And when they try to raise the point that they are struggling, which they are, they get sneered at large scale by people who wont even examine the facts.

Irishcrx

65k a year and moaning?? Give me a break , now where did I put that Violin...

A person on the dole earns at €180 a week earns €8,640 year and may still have to try support a mortgage and family. Seriously f**k off Mr.Sergent.

Real Life

pretty ridiculous, my father makes just over 20,000 a year to provide for a family. luckily i work now too so he doesn't have to worry about me anymore.
I don't know how anyone can complain about 65,000 a year.

Where To

Tombo2001 wrote: »

One thing that really gets on my goat is the constant reference to the gross salary of €65k. Obviously people in the private sector have no understanding of the scale of deductions from public service salaries, over and above private sector salaries.

But to put in simple terms, the net take home pay for a public servant on that salary is €37,500.

This is identical to the net take home pay that a private sector employee on €54,000 would receive.

Now I know only too well that a large part of the contribution is for the pension. But the pension has nothing to with their cost of living today.

The fact of the matter is that the pension deduction is very large, and unlike the private sector it is not tax deductible, and unlike the private sector it is non-discretionary.

In this case, the family is paying €17,000 a year on mortgage.

That leaves them €20,000 a year to live on. That is not a lot in this country.

It might seem like a lot if you are single and its pure disposable income.

But when you are trying to raise a family, it is not a lot.

And when they try to raise the point that they are struggling, which they are, they get sneered at large scale by people who wont even examine the facts.

Why should we have any sympathy for someone just because they are incapable of properly managing their personal finances?

€37000 is a good sum to live on.

strandroad

Tombo2001 wrote: »

That leaves them €20,000 a year to live on. That is not a lot in this country.

Now add 10k overtime and multiple child allowance they say they get.
And still they are -300 a week? There must be either additional debt or living beyond their means - two or three cars, private schooling etc.

I don't understand what the garda's wife wants to achieve here anyway. Does she want her husband's salary to be hiked to cover their badly planned expenses when the figures don't add up? Or perhaps their mortgage to be wiped, while of course keeping the house?
Why won't she look for part-time work? If they finished expanding their family seven years ago, all children are well into their school years now. How can she leave the work option out completely and watch her children eating cornflakes for meals, as she claims?

Something doesn't add up here; the family are probably just a sob story to illustrate how people came to rely on PS allowances, child allowance etc as their income.

Tombo2001

Irishcrx wrote: »

65k a year and moaning?? Give me a break , now where did I put that Violin...

A person on the dole earns at €180 a week earns €8,640 year and may still have to try support a mortgage and family. Seriously f**k off Mr.Sergent.

Exactly the misanalysis I was talking about.

Apples and oranges.

Comparing Gross Pay to Net Pay.

A person on the dole has their rent paid. A person on the dole has childrens allowance. A person on the dole has a medical card.

This persons net disposable income would fall by about €5000 if they quit their job and signed on the dole. And in exchange for that he could sit at home and hang out with the kids, instead of doing what I would imagine is a bloody tough job. if I was in his position, I'd be taking that trade.

Milk & Honey

Irishcrx wrote: »

65k a year and moaning?? Give me a break , now where did I put that Violin...

A person on the dole earns at €180 a week earns €8,640 year and may still have to try support a mortgage and family. Seriously f**k off Mr.Sergent.

A person on the dole does not earn anything? They are given money. There are additional payments for dependants adult or child and additional assistance for housing. If there is a mortgage most of their interest will be paid.

Tombo2001

mhge wrote: »

Now add 10k overtime and multiple child allowance they say they get.
And still they are -300 a week? There must be either additional debt or living beyond their means - two or three cars, private schooling etc.

I don't understand what the garda's wife wants to achieve here anyway. Does she want her husband's salary to be hiked to cover their badly planned expenses when the figures don't add up? Or perhaps their mortgage to be wiped, while of course keeping the house?
Why won't she look for part-time work? If they finished expanding their family seven years ago, all children are well into their school years now. How can she leave the work option out completely and watch her children eating cornflakes for meals, as she claims?

Something doesn't add up here; the family are probably just a sob story to illustrate how people came to rely on PS allowances, child allowance etc as their income.

Where'd you come up with 10k overtime.....why not just make it 100k if you are going to make up figures.

fits

Tombo2001 wrote: »

One thing that really gets on my goat is the constant reference to the gross salary of €65k. Obviously people in the private sector have no understanding of the scale of deductions from public service salaries, over and above private sector salaries.

But to put in simple terms, the net take home pay for a public servant on that salary is €37,500.

This is identical to the net take home pay that a private sector employee on €54,000 would receive.

Now I know only too well that a large part of the contribution is for the pension. But the pension has nothing to with their cost of living today.

The fact of the matter is that the pension deduction is very large, and unlike the private sector it is not tax deductible, and unlike the private sector it is non-discretionary.

In this case, the family is paying €17,000 a year on mortgage.

That leaves them €20,000 a year to live on. That is not a lot in this country.

It might seem like a lot if you are single and its pure disposable income.

But when you are trying to raise a family, it is not a lot.

And when they try to raise the point that they are struggling, which they are, they get sneered at large scale by people who wont even examine the facts.

Hear hear, I am pretty disgusted with some of the attitudes on this thread.

65k in public sector ( not equivalent to private) to run a family and service a mortgage is not a lot.

Rascasse

Tombo2001 wrote: »

One thing that really gets on my goat is the constant reference to the gross salary of €65k. Obviously people in the private sector have no understanding of the scale of deductions from public service salaries, over and above private sector salaries.

But to put in simple terms, the net take home pay for a public servant on that salary is €37,500.

This is identical to the net take home pay that a private sector employee on €54,000 would receive.

Now I know only too well that a large part of the contribution is for the pension. But the pension has nothing to with their cost of living today.

The fact of the matter is that the pension deduction is very large, and unlike the private sector it is not tax deductible, and unlike the private sector it is non-discretionary.

In this case, the family is paying €17,000 a year on mortgage.

That leaves them €20,000 a year to live on. That is not a lot in this country.

It might seem like a lot if you are single and its pure disposable income.

But when you are trying to raise a family, it is not a lot.

And when they try to raise the point that they are struggling, which they are, they get sneered at large scale by people who wont even examine the facts.

Yes the public sector pension deductions may be higher, but his actual salary is €51,084 not the €75k he ends up with. Some nice public sector allowances there.