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Gay Marriage/Marriage Equality/End of World?

robindch

In the few short years since George W Bush II divisively, but successfully, used fear of gay marriage to help energize his electoral base, the tide in North America has turned comprehensively in its favour, with a clear majority now supporting it in every significant poll that's been carried out since Obama declared in May that "same sex couples should be able to get married".

The attitude of Ireland's political leaders is more equivocal, with Enda Kenny famously saying he "won't be pressured" into supporting it, and Eamon Gilmore saying he most certainly does support it. From the legal perspective, both Cork and Belfast city councils have approved it (though with no legal standing, so far as I'm aware), and it's up for debate in the upcoming Constitutional Convention too, so it may well go to referendum for approval.

Outside of Ireland, the SNP in Scotland announced they'll bring forward legislation later this year to permit it, while New Zealand's legislature will debate the issue shortly too.

Predictably, Archbishop Brady announced he's against it, since it would "remove the family based on marriage from its pre-eminent and unique place in society", though I can't immediately see how allowing more people to take part in a binding social ceremony could conceivably reduce its importance. The UK's Cardinal Keith O’Brien said that introducing gay marriage would amount to a “grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right”, and indicated that the Vatican would mobilize its believer population against the UK government's move to support it. Herr Ratzinger, with no sense of underplaying his hand, declared that gay marriage is a "threat to the future of humanity".

From the scientific perspective of social research, there's a lot of evidence that gay parents are at least as good as heterosexual parents, and in some instances, parenting with greater "commitment and involvement".

What are people's thoughts? Will gay marriage, or full marriage equality -- however you want to call it -- come to Ireland, and if so, when? Will it bring about a new age of generosity and tolerance towards those of different sexual orientations, or will it destroy the future of humanity?

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Sonics2k

Sponge25 wrote: »

Look kids get bullied over a myriad of things. Having two daddies will be the king of excuses for kids to get bullied by other kids!

I had two mothers, close friend of mine had two fathers.
Neither of us were bullied for it, and we were both living in a ****e part of Cork called Knocknaheeny.

I was bullied because I had an English accent, and he was briefly bullied because he was fat and had freckles.

By your own logic, we should stop overweight couples, gingers and so on stop having children because their children are more likely to bullied than others.

old hippy

28064212 wrote: »

Yep. On the 15th of October. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/banlist.php

Awesome!

Sponge25

MagicMarker wrote: »

Wow. I guess you're just blinded by your own prejudices then, if after everything that's been posted, you actually have the gall to say you haven't learned anything.

By the way, out of all the people on this thread, how can you tell who's a homosexual and who's not?

How would I learn anything when all yas did was insult me all evening. How am I supposed to empathise with people like that. I know i'm a good man and I know i'm not a bigot!

5uspect

Sponge25 wrote: »

You said because a guy doesn't agree with homosexual he must be hiding something (IE. He must be gay) in so many words. You said this about another guy in this thread!

I'll quote my post, typos and all, so you can actually read it this time.

5uspect wrote: »

The cheap answer is probably repressed homosexuality. I doubt that's true, however the behaviour of some wacko US pastors recently has been surprising.

I would imagine that for the religous types on this thread that they are the ones who really, really believe the god stuff. That means they don't hold back when it comes to securing their place in the dull party in the sky.

I said that one hypothesis is that extreme homophobes are actually repressed homosexuals. (This would be a common sense reaction) Someone else posted a study that presented evidence in support of this hypothesis, I said that this was surprising.

In relation to the religious posters in this thread, I posited that they are homophobic and anti marriage equality because they're really religious. They really believe in everything the Bible tells them and they really want to spend eternity with God and Elvis. And to their credit, they're being consistent in their folly.

You on the other hand have demonstrated nothing but an inability to read what others have taken the time to write.

MagicMarker

Sponge25 wrote: »

How would I learn anything when all yas did was insult me all evening. How am I supposed to empathise with people like that. I know i'm a good man and I know i'm not a bigot!

By stop acting like a victim and come to the realisation that there's a reason why people are calling you a bigot.

By admitting that your entire argument against gay adoption is based on a false premise.

By realising that gay adoption actually has sweet FA to do with allowing gays to marry.

By admitting that there is simply no logical reason to deny gay people the right to marry.

People, like you, try and rationalise your own prejudices, but it's no use, we can see you for what you really are.

[Deleted User]

Sponge25 wrote: »

How would I learn anything when all yas did was insult me all evening. How am I supposed to empathise with people like that. I know i'm a good man and I know i'm not a bigot!

Again, we've pointed out repeatedly that you have no valid reason to object to gay marriage. We've shown you reasoning and evidence to prove you wrong and asked you many times to explain your position.
You however have refused to address any points, rejected the evidence out of hand and declared that your position is right because you are right.

If you're here to learn, you're not doing a very good job of it.

So again: why do you not object to mixed race couples when your own logic demands that you do?

old hippy

Sponge25 wrote: »

How would I learn anything when all yas did was insult me all evening. How am I supposed to empathise with people like that. I know i'm a good man and I know i'm not a bigot!

"What gay people do behind closed doors is their own buisiness but when it comes to marriage I feel it should be between a man and a woman. Marriage is special! I don't object to civil unions but I just wish homosexual people would be happy with that "

You say you're not a bigot (and I'd like to believe you) but you don't want gays to have the right to marry. You say marriage is special, as if somehow gays would cheapen it by getting hitched. Can you not stand back a moment and see how offensive and upsetting that is?

Sponge25

old hippy wrote: »

"What gay people do behind closed doors is their own buisiness but when it comes to marriage I feel it should be between a man and a woman. Marriage is special! I don't object to civil unions but I just wish homosexual people would be happy with that "

You say you're not a bigot (and I'd like to believe you) but you don't want gays to have the right to marry. You say marriage is special, as if somehow gays would cheapen it by getting hitched. Can you not stand back a moment and see how offensive and upsetting that is?

I was trying to learn, trying to empathise; A bigot doesn't do that. Anyway; i'm going to bed for the night.

You guys are the bigots for not accepting other people have different feelings on things according to the dictionary!

[Deleted User]

Sponge25 wrote: »

You guys are the bigots for not accepting other people have different feelings on things according to the dictionary!

And you're a bigot for not accepting that we don't accept other people's "feelings on things." This is a fun game. An infinite regression of bigots, the lot of us.

28064212

Sponge25 wrote: »

I was trying to learn, trying to empathise; A bigot doesn't do that. Anyway; i'm going to bed for the night.

At what stage exactly did you decide you were trying to learn and empathise? It wasn't with your first couple of posts anyway, you just came in telling other people what was right and wrong, and shouting about "common sense"

Sponge25

gvn wrote: »

And you're a bigot for not accepting that we don't accept other people's "feelings on things." This is a fun game. An infinite regression of bigots, the lot of us.

I'm really starting to think some of yas are more than bigots! TBH i've heard the word bigot enough today to last me 10 years.

Goodnight people.

I hope you all feel good about yourselves.

[Deleted User]

We do, thanks for the passive aggressiveness

old hippy

Sponge25 wrote: »

I'm really starting to think some of yas are more than bigots! TBH i've heard the word bigot enough today to last me 10 years.

Goodnight people.

I hope you all feel good about yourselves.

We do and we'll feel even better when you treat us as equals

Mickeroo

Sponge25 wrote: »

I was trying to learn, trying to empathise; A bigot doesn't do that. Anyway; i'm going to bed for the night.

You guys are the bigots for not accepting other people have different feelings on things according to the dictionary!

This post is a classic example of the nonsense you've been pulling since your first post. Instead of actually responding to what old hippy said you just play the victim. Well boo freakin hoo.

old hippy

It's the accusation that we're all bigots because we don't care for his discrimimating against us... that's what cracks me up

Turtwig

I love Sponge's strategy here and I can't believe so many of you are getting suckered into it. Regardless of how justified it may seem, don't label him and he won't be able to use the smokescreen of the victim card.

Jeez, I really thought you guys would've known how this technique is used by now. He's just made half of this forum of reasonable people look like arseholes calling persons who don't agree with them bigots. Deal with his points and forgets the labels no matter how crappy or shallow his points may be that's the point. Avoid the labels, stick to the shallowness of his points.

Nodin

old hippy wrote: »

Awesome!

That might have to be revised a tad.....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056755963

NuMarvel

Sponge25 wrote: »

Look kids get bullied over a myriad of things. Having two daddies will be the king of excuses for kids to get bullied by other kids!

It will only be the king of excuses if we act or think that gay parents is something peculiar or abnormal. Once we accept gay parents as being just as normal as any other parental situation, then there's no reason for bullies to think it should be something worth picking on.

ShooterSF

Sponge25 wrote: »

I said a couple of times I was willing to change my views if people would be a little more polite to me and tried to explain instead or ramming it down my throat like someone put it a few posts ago!

So you are willing to refuse people the right to be happy because other people were rude to you?

Fortyniner

Satan appears to be winning! Christians in gay shock horror!

You need to read the comments, too. Here's what atheists are up against in the US!

http://exministries.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/parents-paranorman-introduces-children-to-homosexuality/

fitz0

Some choice quotes.

It was a bit much for my kindergartner to properly process, so I didn’t address the issue with my daughter.

I wasn’t going to tell her that “all families are the same”

I wasn’t ready to talk to her about heterosexual romance and definitely wasn’t ready to explain our position on homosexual relationships.

That's some damn fine parenting, putting your discomfort before your child's questions. Why ever would the child be confused about her friend with two mothers?

Corkfeen

Fortyniner wrote: »

Satan appears to be winning! Christians in gay shock horror!

You need to read the comments, too. Here's what atheists are up against in the US!

http://exministries.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/parents-paranorman-introduces-children-to-homosexuality/

The writer is a complete and utter idiot but those that are responding make him look like a genius. Fecking devil films..... :P

old hippy

Nodin wrote: »

That might have to be revised a tad.....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056755963

Oh dear. He's going to hate us even more now

he thinks it's some kind of queer conspiracy :rolleyes:

Gbear

old hippy wrote: »

Oh dear. He's going to hate us even more now he thinks it's some kind of queer conspiracy :rolleyes:

The real question is how the **** did he get to 2k posts?

old hippy

Gbear wrote: »

The real question is how the **** did he get to 2k posts?

Anger? Determination? Boredom?

Remember, this is a guy who doesn't read books, watch films - he has to have his r&r somewhere...

MagicMarker

old hippy wrote: »

28064212 wrote: »

Yep. On the 15th of October. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/banlist.php

Awesome!

Seems you may be disappointed.

Actor

Well I suppose it's in line with boards.ie censorship policy.

Mickeroo

Actor wrote: »

Well I suppose it's in line with boards.ie censorship policy.

And possibly the Prohibition of Inctement to Hatred Act.

Actor

Mickeroo wrote: »

And possibly the Prohibition of Inctement to Hatred Act.

Hatred of Christians is par for the course here.

1ZRed

Actor wrote: »

Hatred of Christians is par for the course here.

I think your posts are very entertaining and I like reading them, but I don't get why you never try to explain why you feel this way about gay marriage or homosexuality in general without vague statements.
I'm actually very interested to know.