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The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

PDN

Certain individuals seem to be somewhat obsessed with the subject of homosexuality. To avoid the Forum being over-run with numerous threads on this subject, I am launching a MegaThread similar to the ones we already have on other subjects.

Please note that the Forum Charter still applies to megathreads - so try to treat each other with respect and courtesy, even if the subject is one that makes you hot and bothered.

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MadsL

Actor, can I ask are you basing your assertion that sexual gratification is disgusting and sinful on any particular scripture? Or is it perhaps a particular teaching. Where are you getting this from?

You also said sodomy leads to psychological problems, have you any objective evidence or examples of that?

Actor

MadsL wrote: »

You also said sodomy leads to psychological problems, have you any objective evidence or examples of that?

It's a well-known fact that homosexuals are prone to mental health disorders.

Also, there are many passages in the NT that refer to homosexuality as being sinful. Atheists discount the relevance of Scripture, so I haven't brought scripture into the debate. But it's there in black and white for all to see.

Actor

doctoremma wrote: »

You are a scary man. Can you see this makes you no better than the Taliban?

Do you agree that there are universal human rights?

Zombrex

Actor wrote: »

Do you agree that there are universal human rights?

Do you agree that one of those human rights is the freedom of religion?

marienbad

Actor wrote: »

Do you agree that there are universal human rights?

Indeed there are . So ?

doctoremma

Actor wrote: »

Do you agree that there are universal human rights?

No.

Bannasidhe

Actor wrote: »

It's a well-known fact that homosexuals are prone to mental health disorders.

Also, there are many passages in the NT that refer to homosexuality as being sinful. Atheists discount the relevance of Scripture, so I haven't brought scripture into the debate. But it's there in black and white for all to see.

I may not believe in the Scriptures but you do and seem to believe that we all should live by them. Yet I can safely say that you too have sinned according to scripture so perhaps you should be more concerned with your own actions and stop judging others.

Galatians 5:19-21 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

As for the mental health comment - 'well known' though you may believe it is, I would prefer to see some evidence. Got any?

Zombrex

marienbad wrote: »

Indeed there are . So ?

I imagine he is going to say that God's law applies to all humans, not just the ones who believe in it.

I imagine also he will ignore that it is God's responsibility to punish those who break God's law. "Render unto Caesar" and all that jazz.

Actor

Zombrex wrote: »

Do you agree that one of those human rights is the freedom of religion?

I asked you first.

To answer your question, morals are not a matter of opinion. Freedom of belief and non-belief is fine with me. Someone has to make moral decisions though. I'd leave that to experts rather than career politicians whose objective is to stay in power and win votes rather than decipher Truth. The scourge of relativism and individualism on society has done untold damage (e.g. abortion and widespread sexual perversion).

Sin City

Actor wrote: »

It's a well-known fact that homosexuals are prone to mental health disorders.

Also, there are many passages in the NT that refer to homosexuality as being sinful. Atheists discount the relevance of Scripture, so I haven't brought scripture into the debate. But it's there in black and white for all to see.

can you provide evidence for the homosexual mental health point ?

Zombrex

Actor wrote: »

It's a well-known fact that homosexuals are prone to mental health disorders.

It is also a well known fact that homosexuals are prone to being on the receiving end of bigotry hatred and violence, which contributes to mental health problems such as depression and suicide.

Good to see that your concern for the mental well being of homosexuals is combating this ...

Actor wrote: »

Also, there are many passages in the NT that refer to homosexuality as being sinful. Atheists discount the relevance of Scripture, so I haven't brought scripture into the debate. But it's there in black and white for all to see.

There are also passages in the Bible that refer to not picking up grapes that have fallen on the ground because this is unholy and you should be as holy as God is (good luck trying to explain that away as a ceremonial law given where it falls in Lev 19).

And when you get to see God and he punishes you for doing this you can take it up with him. You aren't going to be stopped doing this by the secular government of this country because they don't mind, it does no harm here on Earth even if it condemns your eternal soul by acting in an unholy manner, because it is not the governments responsibility to save your soul.

Actor

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I may not believe in the Scriptures but you do and seem to believe that we all should live by them. Yet I can safely say that you too have sinned according to scripture so perhaps you should be more concerned with your own actions and stop judging others.

Galatians 5:19-21 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

As for the mental health comment - 'well known' though you may believe it is, I would prefer to see some evidence. Got any?

Who are you to interpret scripture?

Also, numbers don't lie.

marienbad

Actor wrote: »

I asked you first.

To answer your question, morals are not a matter of opinion. Freedom of belief and non-belief is fine with me. Someone has to make moral decisions though. I'd leave that to experts rather than career politicians whose objective is to stay in power and win votes rather than decipher Truth. The scourge of relativism and individualism on society has done untold damage (e.g. abortion and widespread sexual perversion).

So who is this someone ?

Actor

Zombrex wrote: »

It is also a well known fact that homosexuals are prone to being on the receiving end of bigotry hatred and violence, which contributes to mental health problems such as depression and suicide.

Good to see that your concern for the mental well being of homosexuals is combating this ...

Do you have any evidence to suggest that this is the case?

Actor

marienbad wrote: »

So who is this someone ?

I'd rather live my life in accordance with the teachings of Catholic Church than by pro-abortion politicians such as Mick Wallace and Clare Daly.

doctoremma

Actor wrote: »

I'd rather live my life in accordance with the teachings of Catholic Church than by pro-abortion politicians such as Mick Wallace and Clare Daly.

And what of those who do not wish to live their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Bannasidhe

Actor wrote: »

Who are you to interpret scripture?

Also, numbers don't lie.

Surely I am one of God's children whether I believe in Him or not?

Who are you to decide I can't read what is apparently the word of my creator?

The numbers may not be lying but they are also not here. Let's see some numbers and judge their truthfulness shall we?

marienbad

Actor wrote: »

I'd rather live my life in accordance with the teachings of Catholic Church than by pro-abortion politicians such as Mick Wallace and Clare Daly.

Is that the best you can do ! I don't live my life according to Mick Wallace either - there are more choices that than

Actor

doctoremma wrote: »

And what of those who do not wish to live their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

And what of those who do? We must strike a balance that accomodates the majority. If the minority want to live in a secular State, perhaps they should move to Holland where bestiality, prostitution and abortion is rife. That, or lobby for change as they are perfectly entitled to do.

Actor

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Surely I am one of God's children whether I believe in Him or not?

Who are you to decide I can't read what is apparently the word of my creator?

The numbers may not be lying but they are also not here. Let's see some numbers and judge their truthfulness shall we?

You can read the bible all you want. If you're not qualified, your opinion is moot. Would you take tax advice on a complex issue from some punter on the internet? If you did, you'd look like a fool when audit time came around and wouldn't get any sympathy from Revenue.

"A systematic review of mental disorder, suicide, and deliberate self harm in lesbian, gay and bisexual people" BMC Psychiatry 2008, 8:70

Amphetamines are also strongly linked to mental disorders. I'd avoid like the plague. Same goes for bum "sex".

Benny_Cake

Actor wrote: »

doctoremma wrote: »

And what of those who do not wish to live their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

And what of those who do? We must strike a balance that accomodates the majority. If the minority want to live in a secular State, perhaps they should move to Holland where bestiality, prostitution and abortion is rife. That, or lobby for change as they are perfectly entitled to do.

I think you'd find that the majority want to live in a secular state. Theocracy would do Christianity no favours.

NuMarvel

Actor wrote: »

And what of those who do? We must strike a balance that accomodates the majority. If the minority want to live in a secular State, perhaps they should move to Holland where bestiality, prostitution and abortion is rife. That, or lobby for change as they are perfectly entitled to do.

It's a "well known fact" that practising Catholics ARE the minority. Send us a postcard when you get to Amsterdam, won't you?

Actor

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I think you'd find that the majority want to live in a secular state. Theocracy would do Christianity no favours.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that "the majority want to live in a secular state"? The Catholic Church is pro religious freedom FYI. But is against the tyranny of State-sanctioned secular relativism.

Actor

NuMarvel wrote: »

It's a "well known fact" that practising Catholics ARE the minority. Send us a postcard when you get to Amsterdam, won't you?

I've been there and visited the wonderful museums. It's an awful pity that the place has been ruined by drug/sex tourists in their quest for smut. It's become such a problem that the "coffee shops" are now only serving locals.

Also, Catholics are in a minority. 92% of people choose to send their children to Catholic primary schools.

marienbad

Actor wrote: »

I've been there and visited the wonderful museums. It's an awful pity that the place has been ruined by drug/sex tourists in their quest for smut. It's become such a problem that the "coffee shops" are now only serving locals.

Also, Catholics are in a minority. 92% of people choose to send their children to Catholic primary schools.

Do they have a choice ?

NuMarvel

Actor wrote: »

Also, Catholics are in a minority.

Well then, you obviously agree that the State shouldn't accommodate your beliefs. Thanks

Actor

marienbad wrote: »

Do they have a choice ?

I wouldn't send my child to an atheist-run school. I'd sooner home school. If there was such a problem with Catholic education, there'd be people out on the streets protesting. They're not. Therefore one can only assume that the system, as stands, works fine and satisfies the needs of the majority (Catholic; according to the most recent census).

Benny_Cake

Actor wrote: »

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I think you'd find that the majority want to live in a secular state. Theocracy would do Christianity no favours.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that "the majority want to live in a secular state"? The Catholic Church is pro religious freedom FYI. But is against the tyranny of State-sanctioned secular relativism.

I think you're confusing secularism with atheism. Religious freedom doesn't mean the freedom to impose your religious beliefs on those who don't hold them. I'm glad to live in a secular country where people are free to practice any faith they choose or no faith at all if they so wish.

Wiggles88

Actor wrote: »

92% of people were forced to send their children to Catholic primary schools.

Fixed your post

pathtohome

dlofnep wrote: »

Homosexuality is perfectly natural

Brian Cowen is perfectly skinny. Two can play at that game.