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The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

PDN

Certain individuals seem to be somewhat obsessed with the subject of homosexuality. To avoid the Forum being over-run with numerous threads on this subject, I am launching a MegaThread similar to the ones we already have on other subjects.

Please note that the Forum Charter still applies to megathreads - so try to treat each other with respect and courtesy, even if the subject is one that makes you hot and bothered.

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Benny_Cake

Actor wrote: »

doctoremma wrote: »

And what of those who do not wish to live their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

And what of those who do? We must strike a balance that accomodates the majority. If the minority want to live in a secular State, perhaps they should move to Holland where bestiality, prostitution and abortion is rife. That, or lobby for change as they are perfectly entitled to do.

I think you'd find that the majority want to live in a secular state. Theocracy would do Christianity no favours.

Actor

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Surely I am one of God's children whether I believe in Him or not?

Who are you to decide I can't read what is apparently the word of my creator?

The numbers may not be lying but they are also not here. Let's see some numbers and judge their truthfulness shall we?

You can read the bible all you want. If you're not qualified, your opinion is moot. Would you take tax advice on a complex issue from some punter on the internet? If you did, you'd look like a fool when audit time came around and wouldn't get any sympathy from Revenue.

"A systematic review of mental disorder, suicide, and deliberate self harm in lesbian, gay and bisexual people" BMC Psychiatry 2008, 8:70

Amphetamines are also strongly linked to mental disorders. I'd avoid like the plague. Same goes for bum "sex".

Actor

doctoremma wrote: »

And what of those who do not wish to live their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

And what of those who do? We must strike a balance that accomodates the majority. If the minority want to live in a secular State, perhaps they should move to Holland where bestiality, prostitution and abortion is rife. That, or lobby for change as they are perfectly entitled to do.

marienbad

Actor wrote: »

I'd rather live my life in accordance with the teachings of Catholic Church than by pro-abortion politicians such as Mick Wallace and Clare Daly.

Is that the best you can do ! I don't live my life according to Mick Wallace either - there are more choices that than

Bannasidhe

Actor wrote: »

Who are you to interpret scripture?

Also, numbers don't lie.

Surely I am one of God's children whether I believe in Him or not?

Who are you to decide I can't read what is apparently the word of my creator?

The numbers may not be lying but they are also not here. Let's see some numbers and judge their truthfulness shall we?

doctoremma

Actor wrote: »

I'd rather live my life in accordance with the teachings of Catholic Church than by pro-abortion politicians such as Mick Wallace and Clare Daly.

And what of those who do not wish to live their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Actor

marienbad wrote: »

So who is this someone ?

I'd rather live my life in accordance with the teachings of Catholic Church than by pro-abortion politicians such as Mick Wallace and Clare Daly.

Actor

Zombrex wrote: »

It is also a well known fact that homosexuals are prone to being on the receiving end of bigotry hatred and violence, which contributes to mental health problems such as depression and suicide.

Good to see that your concern for the mental well being of homosexuals is combating this ...

Do you have any evidence to suggest that this is the case?

marienbad

Actor wrote: »

I asked you first.

To answer your question, morals are not a matter of opinion. Freedom of belief and non-belief is fine with me. Someone has to make moral decisions though. I'd leave that to experts rather than career politicians whose objective is to stay in power and win votes rather than decipher Truth. The scourge of relativism and individualism on society has done untold damage (e.g. abortion and widespread sexual perversion).

So who is this someone ?

Actor

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I may not believe in the Scriptures but you do and seem to believe that we all should live by them. Yet I can safely say that you too have sinned according to scripture so perhaps you should be more concerned with your own actions and stop judging others.

Galatians 5:19-21 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

As for the mental health comment - 'well known' though you may believe it is, I would prefer to see some evidence. Got any?

Who are you to interpret scripture?

Also, numbers don't lie.

Zombrex

Actor wrote: »

It's a well-known fact that homosexuals are prone to mental health disorders.

It is also a well known fact that homosexuals are prone to being on the receiving end of bigotry hatred and violence, which contributes to mental health problems such as depression and suicide.

Good to see that your concern for the mental well being of homosexuals is combating this ...

Actor wrote: »

Also, there are many passages in the NT that refer to homosexuality as being sinful. Atheists discount the relevance of Scripture, so I haven't brought scripture into the debate. But it's there in black and white for all to see.

There are also passages in the Bible that refer to not picking up grapes that have fallen on the ground because this is unholy and you should be as holy as God is (good luck trying to explain that away as a ceremonial law given where it falls in Lev 19).

And when you get to see God and he punishes you for doing this you can take it up with him. You aren't going to be stopped doing this by the secular government of this country because they don't mind, it does no harm here on Earth even if it condemns your eternal soul by acting in an unholy manner, because it is not the governments responsibility to save your soul.

Sin City

Actor wrote: »

It's a well-known fact that homosexuals are prone to mental health disorders.

Also, there are many passages in the NT that refer to homosexuality as being sinful. Atheists discount the relevance of Scripture, so I haven't brought scripture into the debate. But it's there in black and white for all to see.

can you provide evidence for the homosexual mental health point ?

Actor

Zombrex wrote: »

Do you agree that one of those human rights is the freedom of religion?

I asked you first.

To answer your question, morals are not a matter of opinion. Freedom of belief and non-belief is fine with me. Someone has to make moral decisions though. I'd leave that to experts rather than career politicians whose objective is to stay in power and win votes rather than decipher Truth. The scourge of relativism and individualism on society has done untold damage (e.g. abortion and widespread sexual perversion).

Zombrex

marienbad wrote: »

Indeed there are . So ?

I imagine he is going to say that God's law applies to all humans, not just the ones who believe in it.

I imagine also he will ignore that it is God's responsibility to punish those who break God's law. "Render unto Caesar" and all that jazz.

Bannasidhe

Actor wrote: »

It's a well-known fact that homosexuals are prone to mental health disorders.

Also, there are many passages in the NT that refer to homosexuality as being sinful. Atheists discount the relevance of Scripture, so I haven't brought scripture into the debate. But it's there in black and white for all to see.

I may not believe in the Scriptures but you do and seem to believe that we all should live by them. Yet I can safely say that you too have sinned according to scripture so perhaps you should be more concerned with your own actions and stop judging others.

Galatians 5:19-21 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

As for the mental health comment - 'well known' though you may believe it is, I would prefer to see some evidence. Got any?

doctoremma

Actor wrote: »

Do you agree that there are universal human rights?

No.

marienbad

Actor wrote: »

Do you agree that there are universal human rights?

Indeed there are . So ?

Zombrex

Actor wrote: »

Do you agree that there are universal human rights?

Do you agree that one of those human rights is the freedom of religion?

Actor

doctoremma wrote: »

You are a scary man. Can you see this makes you no better than the Taliban?

Do you agree that there are universal human rights?

Actor

MadsL wrote: »

You also said sodomy leads to psychological problems, have you any objective evidence or examples of that?

It's a well-known fact that homosexuals are prone to mental health disorders.

Also, there are many passages in the NT that refer to homosexuality as being sinful. Atheists discount the relevance of Scripture, so I haven't brought scripture into the debate. But it's there in black and white for all to see.

MadsL

Actor, can I ask are you basing your assertion that sexual gratification is disgusting and sinful on any particular scripture? Or is it perhaps a particular teaching. Where are you getting this from?

You also said sodomy leads to psychological problems, have you any objective evidence or examples of that?

doctoremma

Actor wrote: »

The Truth and morals are universal.

You are a scary man. Can you see this makes you no better than the Taliban?

Actor

ShooterSF wrote: »

So you think society should conform to your religious beliefs even those that don't share them?

The Truth and morals are universal.

Gumbi

He won't answer that.

ShooterSF

Actor wrote: »

More acceptable. But it's a bit like saying that you'd prefer a robber to use a hammer rather than a gun if he's going to rob a bank. Remember Pope Benedict's recent remarks about the use of condoms?

I understand that many normal couples engage in sodomy. Such sexual behaviours are the norm in modern society (indeed glorified) and lead to all kinds of psychological disorders. I blame the culture of contraception - sex has been demoted to an act of pleasure rather than an act of reproduction. Pleasure is a by-product of procreative acts. Nowadays babies are a by-product of sex and are to be aborted at will. Gay "sex", by its very nature, is self-gratuitous (use of the sexual organs contrary to their design) and designed solely for the sexual gratification of the participants. It is not only disgusting, but more importantly; sinful (a word which has been conveniently air-brushed out of liberal society's lexicon). Adoption agencies should not encourage such behaviour in society by affirming unions such as gay couples/triples/etc.

So you think society should conform to your religious beliefs even those that don't share them?

MadsL

PDN, apologies for AH type content - the reason I brought this up was Actor's assertion that

self-gratuitous [sex] (use of the sexual organs contrary to their design) and designed solely for the sexual gratification of the participants. It is not only disgusting, but more importantly; sinful

this reveals that he* believes there is something inherently sinful about sex, regardless of orientation.

Now I confess that I did pantomime that for comic effect, but to be honest, it underlines that Actor's argument is utterly flawed. It is not homosexuality solely that he has a problem with, it is sex.

And 99% of Christians would agree that sex is a gift and wonderful pleasure to be enjoyed by humans.

Actors attitude to sex, in particular his assertion that sodomy leads to psychological problems and that sexual gratification is disgusting, is frankly seriously disturbed. I would urge him to go speak to someone, a priest or counselor, about such negative feelings about normal human sexuality.

*I assume unless he is a UBER master troll

Zombrex

Actor wrote: »

More acceptable. But it's a bit like saying that you'd prefer a robber to use a hammer rather than a gun if he's going to rob a bank. Remember Pope Benedict's recent remarks about the use of condoms?

I understand that many normal couples engage in sodomy. Such sexual behaviours are the norm in modern society (indeed glorified) and lead to all kinds of psychological disorders. I blame the culture of contraception - sex has been demoted to an act of pleasure rather than an act of reproduction. Pleasure is a by-product of procreative acts. Nowadays babies are a by-product of sex and are to be aborted at will. Gay "sex", by its very nature, is self-gratuitous (use of the sexual organs contrary to their design) and designed solely for the sexual gratification of the participants. It is not only disgusting, but more importantly; sinful (a word which has been conveniently air-brushed out of liberal society's lexicon). Adoption agencies should not encourage such behaviour in society by affirming unions such as gay couples/triples/etc.

Can you point out an adoption agency that asks the heterosexual couples if they engage in anal/oral sex when assessing them? The reality is that the private sexual habits of a heterosexual couple are none of the concern for an adoption agency, so why should the private sexual habits of a homosexual couple be any concern to them?

Zombrex

Actor wrote: »

I asked *you* to pick one. The study you find most compelling is fine - some quotes wouldn't go astray either. Let me know so I can read over it.

Ok ...

Patterson, C.J. (2004a). Lesbian and gay parents and their children: Summary of research findings. In Lesbian and gay parenting: A resource for psychologists. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association.

http://familyproject.ch/files/Charlotte%20Patterson.pdf

PDN

jill_valentine wrote: »

Actor's entire objection to homosexuality is based on his weirdly enthusiastic personal distaste for particular sex acts. That plenty of straight couples engage in precisely the same sex acts is relevant.

The opposition by Christian groups generally to homosexuality seems to stem from exactly the same root - personal distaste - rather than anything to do with the Bible itself, and this notion that sexual pleasure is somehow morally or physically corrosive in itself is a fantastically perverse one. I realise that concept is more pronounced in some denominations that others, but we can't talk about Christianity vs. Homosexuality without covering it.

Claptrap. You can cover it without making a string of smutty and peurile smartass comments. All you do is drag yourselves down to Actor's level.

I'm going to upgrade my observation to a Mod Warning (hence the bold-faced type). Posters who behave as if they are on After Hours will earn infractions and, if necessary, bans.

jill_valentine

PDN wrote: »

Anyone want to discuss homosexuality and its relationship with Christianity?

If you want to participate in a thread where you discuss giving head then After Hours is open.

Actor's entire objection to homosexuality is based on his weirdly enthusiastic personal distaste for particular sex acts. That plenty of straight couples engage in precisely the same sex acts is relevant.

The opposition by Christian groups generally to homosexuality seems to stem from exactly the same root - personal distaste - rather than anything to do with the Bible itself, and this notion that sexual pleasure is somehow morally or physically corrosive in itself is a fantastically perverse one. I realise that concept is more pronounced in some denominations that others, but we can't talk about Christianity vs. Homosexuality without covering it.