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Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

G.K.

Old thread here.

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wheres me jumpa

cloptrop wrote: »

I missed part of the match because my tablets fell diwn behind the rad . I had to take the rad off to get them .

CRT TV 1 - 0 Tablet PC

cloptrop

Owen_S wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

People saying fellaini is the answer to our problems really arnt thinking things through. Hed be a good bit part player for when all else failed and we are deploying the long ball.
We need a defensive midfielder that can play a simple pass. Not a big target man that can knock long ball down. A decent physical defense like stoke for example would have made ****e out of him .
He shines against united because in the last game we had no vidic to pick him up. He shone last night because for some stupid reason vidic was letting carrick look after him all Night.

The stats show that he is an outstanding holding/defensive midfielder too, who is one of the best ball-winners around.
http://www.eplindex.com/11381/analysing-fellaini-rivals-opta-stats.html
http://www.eplindex.com/16366/premier-league-midfield-enforcers-statistical-comparison.html

Stats can be used to argue any point. 438 ground tackles last season . More than anyone i think . Sounds good.
Only won 50 per cent of them . Still sound good.
So 219 times last season he went into a tackle lost out therefore being left behind.
Thats not something you get away with in champions league.
Add this to the fact hes not really a one touch passer or anyway intelligent just batters the ball towards the box you will start getting my point.
If you watch him against any team with a few big lads in it he is redundant .

Roger Sterling

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Have a read of this article by Jonathan Wilson, the guy who wrote "Inverting the Pyramid".

There is so much more to it than where the names are on a piece of paper.

I've read the book.

I still fail to see the difference between what we saw last night and 4-2-3-1 or a fluid version of it. Interesting and al as that book is and the likes of Zonal Marking there's a lot of bullshi*tting on about football tactics being done these days by people who know jack sh*t about the fine detail of such things - and as such should leave well alone in the first place.

keane2097

MagicMarker wrote: »

How's he gonna get match fit if he doesn't play any matches?

Same way everyone else does, training hard and getting minutes at the end of games when everyone is tired and the fact that he's a fat mess isn't going to be quite as detrimental. The idea that you need me to explain how people typically get match fitness is interesting and suggests answering questions of yours might not be something I persist with.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Only in your brain does dropping one of our biggest goal threats make sense.

In favour of an even bigger goal thread. Problem solved.

Your Airbag wrote: »

No preseason left. The games have started. How is he going to get match fit other than playing matches.

See above and attempt to use that brain of yours more exhaustively.

Your Airbag wrote: »

He could easily bag a couple of goals against Fulham and yet you want him dropped.

That doesn't make me wrong. He could have a stroke from dragging his arse around the place either.

Your Airbag wrote: »

I would rather Rooney and RVP than Wellbeck and RVP.

Wellbeck who incidentally was put through twice last night and allowed himself to be caught and tackled by defenders on both occasions. He didn't look up to it either.

Don't particularly think Welbeck should keep his place either.

Your Airbag wrote: »

We lost to a great Everton performance by one goal. RVP is also nowhere near match and didn't get a sniff of goal last night but Fergie is willing to put him into the mix and all the talk today is about dropping Rooney because he didn't look up to it. Only our keeper and Kagawa stood out last night. Any team would have struggled against Everton.

Rooney is fat, RVP has had a few weeks off, it's a little bit the same, but not really.

Quandary

Forget match fitness lads. Rooney needs to be dropped from the first team until he reaches proper physical fitness. We all know his lifestyle isn't exactly ideal when his job is being a £1m per month professional footballer.

Not being match fit can be easily forgiven but at this level, not being in peak or close to peak physical condition is simply not on.

IMO, Rooney has already lost a yard or two of pace since we signed him and he's still only 26!

Roger Sterling

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well, Rooney is fit. He's just not match fit, he's not as sharp as he should be.

If a player is to get match fit then he has to play matches. Sticking him on the bench isn't going to help him.

Yet everyone else that lined upfor United looked miles ahead of him in fitness. How can that be. If its matches he needs theres an under 21 team playing again soon that allows senior players to line up if needs be. He can catch up with everyone else there. We have rakes of strikers now, he needs to realise he's no longer guaranteed a game no matter how big his belly is.

Jame Gumb

Forget about match fitness.

Rooney's basic fitness doesn't appear to be there. He's clearly overweight.

Until he's in the shape that a professional athlete should be, he should be dropped in favour of RVP (with Kagawa playing off him).

We're crying out for a tackling all action defensive midfielder. If we're not gonna sign one, then the only man in the squad capable of playing that role is Phil Jones in my view.

Your Airbag

[QUOTE=keane2097;80352624]In favour of an even bigger goal thread. Problem solved.

See above and attempt to use that brain of yours more exhaustively.

Don't particularly think Welbeck should keep his place either.

Rooney is fat, RVP has had a few weeks off, it's a little bit the same, but not really.[/QUOTE]

Drop Rooney for a bigger goal threat? Are you serious. He has had less preseason than Rooney and scored one more goal last season.

You want Welbeck gone as well.

Thank god its Fergie managing the team. You need to follow your own advice in the bolded part.

Spiderpig92

lads, what did ye make of RVP? from my own opinion, for a man who only touched the ball about 3 or 4 times he did well enough, his couple of corners were decent and the pass that nearly led to Kagawa scoring was brilliant. Everton marked him well and didnt give united much chance to give him the ball so credit has to go to them for that. At the end of the day if RVP is given the sevice he will score goals

Roger Sterling

Quandary wrote: »

Forget match fitness lads. Rooney needs to be dropped from the first team until he reaches proper physical fitness. We all know his lifestyle isn't exactly ideal when his job is being a £1m per month professional footballer.

Not being match fit can be easily forgiven but at this level, not being in peak or close to peak physical condition is simply not on.

IMO, Rooney has already lost a yard or two of pace since we signed him and he's still only 26!

Yup.

RVP = not match fit due to lack of preseason games, but looks trim and in shape.

Solution: More minutes on the field to get him sharp.

Rooney = not fit fullstop, looks overweight and is sucking in air way too soon in a game for a professional of his calibre.

Solution: Drop him down to the reserves till he gets his cardio in shape, now that we have signed world class alternatives.

SlickRic

Your Airbag wrote: »

Drop Rooney for a bigger goal threat? Are you serious. He has had less preseason than Rooney and scored one more goal last season.

You want Welbeck gone as well.

Thank god its Fergie managing the team. You need to follow your own advice in the bolded part.

out of interest...do you think Rooney is droppable?

considering you now have the likes of Kagawa and RVP to fill in...

Will I Amnt

It's unforgivable for him to be so unfit.
Preseason was the time to get back in shape and matchfit.

Technophobe

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Yup.

RVP = not match fit due to lack of preseason games, but looks trim and in shape.

Solution: More minutes on the field to get him sharp.

Rooney = not fit fullstop, looks overweight and is sucking in air way too soon in a game for a professional of his calibre.

Solution: Drop him down to the reserves till he gets his cardio in shape, now that we have signed world class alternatives.

Bang on...!!

You have to ask too though, wtf were the United backroom/conditioning guys etc at with Rooney?? If he came back (probably at least a month ago) in that shape, then he should have had his training/eating routine altered radically to do something about his shape....

cloptrop

If we dropped rooney hed make a pretty good splash. Hes a big lad like.
Hes not far off needing a gastric band .

titan18

These last few pages have been great. Easy to pick out people who've never seen Fellaini play before against anyone other than United.

Will I Amnt

Spiderpig92 wrote: »

lads, what did ye make of RVP? from my own opinion, for a man who only touched the ball about 3 or 4 times he did well enough, his couple of corners were decent and the pass that nearly led to Kagawa scoring was brilliant. Everton marked him well and didnt give united much chance to give him the ball so credit has to go to them for that. At the end of the day if RVP is given the sevice he will score goals

Last night won't tell you much about he will settle in,I don't see any issues that will prevent him playing a similar role to what he had at Arsenal.
If it means we never have to see Nani take another corner then it can only be a good thing

Jame Gumb

cloptrop wrote: »

If we dropped rooney hed make a pretty good splash. Hes a big lad like.
Hes not far off needing a gastric band .

I was genuinely shocked at the state of him.

He was sweating and panting like a rapist.

Surprised nobody's tried the old "but tv adds 10 pounds" defence!

It's right to question his professionalism.

Roger Sterling

Jame Gumb wrote: »

I was genuinely shocked at the state of him.

He was sweating and panting like a rapist.

Surprised nobody's tried the old "but tv adds 10 pounds" defence!

It's right to question his professionalism.

Its strange,I remember noting he looked equally out of shape during Euro 2012. Whenever I see him getting all pink around the gills and angry looking I worry he'll lose the head and get the line.

Al Capwned

Just on the people saying Vidic should have been picking up Fellaini for free kicks / corners etc.

For the Osman shot that hit the bar, it was Vidic that Fellaini out muscled and out jumped to knock the ball down for Osman.

I don't think it's as simple as just saying "Let Vidic pick up Fellaini."

onemorechance

Rooney has been dropped! :eek:

Wayne Rooney axed ...

http://www.metro.co.uk

MagicMarker

onemorechance wrote: »

Rooney has been dropped! :eek:

http://www.metro.co.uk

What?

Danye

Your Airbag wrote: »

Only in your brain does dropping one of our biggest goal threats make sense.

No preseason left. The games have started. How is he going to get match fit other than playing matches. He could easily bag a couple of goals against Fulham and yet you want him dropped. I would rather Rooney and RVP than Wellbeck and RVP.

Wellbeck who incidentally was put through twice last night and allowed himself to be caught and tackled by defenders on both occasions. He didn't look up to it either.

We lost to a great Everton performance by one goal. RVP is also nowhere near match and didn't get a sniff of goal last night but Fergie is willing to put him into the mix and all the talk today is about dropping Rooney because he didn't look up to it. Only our keeper and Kagawa stood out last night. Any team would have struggled against Everton.

At the minute he doesn't look anything like a goal threat. As has been mentioned earlier let him come on for the last 30 minutes in the next game and gradually increase it if he performs well. He needs to know that he is no longer undropable and at the very least he should be putting a shift in for the team if things aren't going right for him with the ball.

I would have fancied Chelsea or City to turn over Everton last night tbh. If they had the same type of possesion as we had I would imagine they both would have created a lot more.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Well, Rooney is fit. He's just not match fit, he's not as sharp as he should be.

If a player is to get match fit then he has to play matches. Sticking him on the bench isn't going to help him.

As I have said and somebody else mentioned that he should be brought on with 30 minutes to go or whatever. That way he can improve his match fitness and might also make him realise that he no longer is undropable.

keane2097 wrote: »

Same way everyone else does, training hard and getting minutes at the end of games when everyone is tired and the fact that he's a fat mess isn't going to be quite as detrimental. The idea that you need me to explain how people typically get match fitness is interesting and suggests answering questions of yours might not be something I persist with.

Agreed.

Quandary wrote: »

IMO, Rooney has already lost a yard or two of pace since we signed him and he's still only 26!

I think he has changed a lot since he came to the club. Workrate and everything seems to have dropped. Granted Fergie might of told him to stop chasing down meanigless balls but I remember watching him and you where expecting something from him. That's gone from IMO.

SlickRic wrote: »

out of interest...do you think Rooney is droppable?

considering you now have the likes of Kagawa and RVP to fill in...

Definately! If he's not doing the business he has to be dropped. Especially with the quality we now have in those positions.

cloptrop wrote: »

If we dropped rooney hed make a pretty good splash. Hes a big lad like.
Hes not far off needing a gastric band .

Slight exageration there mate :rolleyes: For the record I don't think he is that big but he is certainly lacking fitness.

Giggsy11

Dutch defender Alexander Büttner has today completed his medical, agreed personal terms and signed for Manchester United on a five-year contract until 2017.

The 23-year-old, who was part of Holland's preliminary squad for this summer's European Championship, joins the Reds from Vitesse Arnhem, where he made 119 appearances over the past four years.

Sir Alex Ferguson said: "Alexander is one of the best young left backs in Europe and we're delighted to sign him. He's someone we've been watching for a while now. He gives us some really exciting options in that position."

Alexander Büttner said: "Joining Manchester United is one of the best days of my life. It's a team I have admired for many years now and I can't wait to join my teammates and play my part in helping the club be successful."

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2012/Aug/alexander-buttner-signs-for-manchester-united.aspx

MagicMarker

Doesn't sound to me like SAF brought him in as "cover".

Hopefully he can challenge for a starting place.

GSPfan

I wanna add something to the comments about De Gea bulking up and Vidic slimming down.

I don't think either is the case. I just think both have changed their hair cut. ....... Stop laughing, i'm serious.

Vidic didn't have his normal Ivan Drago hair. It was a bit longer which can make your face look slimmer.
De Gea had his hair tight and with no silly sideburns. This made him look less like a homeless and more like a man.
Both may have dropped and added weight but it wasn't that noticable to me, other than the change of hair style.

Seriously!

Jimmy Iovine

Man Utd Facebook ‏@MUFC_Facebook
i dont want buttner ass-****er......I WANT A WIN AGAINST **** TEAMS LIKE EVERTON

Mars Bar

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Man Utd Facebook ‏@MUFC_Facebook
i dont want buttner ass-****er......I WANT A WIN AGAINST **** TEAMS LIKE EVERTON

I like this one myself.

Man Utd Facebook ‏@MUFC_Facebook
suck bull bollocks Alex, shouldnt hav started welbert

Welbert. Such a red neck sounding name!

LiamoSail

^^^ The Glazier son's on twitter?

Pro. F

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Have a read of this article by Jonathan Wilson, the guy who wrote "Inverting the Pyramid".

There is so much more to it than where the names are on a piece of paper.

That article does not describe how we played last night. It talks about the ACM/no.10 dropping deep close to the CM and picking up the ball facing the opposition goal and it describes that as a 4213. That is not how Kagawa played. We played with a 4231/4411 (yes they are both the same). So Roger's question is right, there is no difference from what we played last night and 4231.

Your Airbag

SlickRic wrote: »

out of interest...do you think Rooney is droppable?

considering you now have the likes of Kagawa and RVP to fill in...

Of course Any player is droppable, bar defenders at the moment. Yes we could drop Rooney for not being match fit but where are the calls for Welbeck and RVP to be dropped. RVP is not fully fit, WelbERT was through on goal twice and was caught by Everton defenders, he was the front man, Rooney was outwide hence the lack of chances for him in what was already a tough game. I would have fancied Rooney to make more of both Welbecks chances given his physicallity but Rooney is bearing the brunt of the backlash today.

I have no doubt SAF will train them all accordingly this week and Rooney will start against Fulham, possibly with Welbeck. Calling for him to be dropped after one game is the usual over reactionary stuff.

But on the bright side, Anderson shot wide from distance. He should start against Fulham.