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FA Cup Semi Final:Tottenham V Chelsea(18:00)

Crann na Beatha

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GavRedKing

I am pie wrote: »

No, he was asking a question which assumes that Liverpool FC and fans have something to apologise for? To answer his question you have to accept that assumption, and i don't. Neither should any self respecting football fan. I say football fan because understanding the Hillsborough disaster should go beyond petty fan rivalry.

I dont understand fully the circumstances to led to the disaster nor do I know enough to comment on it so I dont.

My main point was not defending fans either, my view was it shouldnt have happened but neither should the minutes silence in the modern game as it leaves it open to be abused by small minded people that have an agenda.

I dont think he was trying to flame or troll anyone either with his comment it didnt seem that way, if he genuinely didnt know the circumstances or the subsequent actions after the disaster, then you got to cut him some slack for asking for some answers.

Edit : I agree on the rivalry issue to, but for far to long the Munich and H'Boro disaster has become cannon fodder for fans, same can be said about the Leeds fans killed in Turkey as some of examples of nothing being off limits for some rival fans.

I am pie

gavredking wrote: »

Amiable, good links, I'll educate myself on H'boro when I get a chance.

I think TBF to iregk, he was asking a genuine question on an open forum and wanted to knwo from the memebrs what the stroy was instead of going to a search engine.

No, he was asking a question which assumes that Liverpool FC and fans have something to apologise for? To answer his question you have to accept that assumption, and i don't. Neither should any self respecting football fan. I say football fan because understanding the Hillsborough disaster should go beyond petty fan rivalry.

GavRedKing

I am pie wrote: »

Maybe just have a quick read of the Taylor Report or summary of findings.

"The Taylor Report found that the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control"

What should Liverpool FC and fans be apologising for?

I personally didnt know much about H'boro disaster but will take a look at the links amiable posted.

I still dont condone any chanting during the silence though but theirs a number of factors that contributed too it.

amiable

Sideshow Mark wrote: »

Ignorance is no excuse.

I wanted to say something else

I am pie

gavredking wrote: »

Nobody is answering his question though, I suppose we could all check online and find out for ourselves though.

Maybe just have a quick read of the Taylor Report or summary of findings.

"The Taylor Report found that the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control"

What should Liverpool FC and fans be apologising for?

GavRedKing

Amiable, good links, I'll educate myself on H'boro when I get a chance.

I think TBF to iregk, he was asking a genuine question on an open forum and wanted to knwo from the memebrs what the stroy was instead of going to a search engine.

Sideshow Mark

iregk wrote: »

A hateful post

amiable wrote: »

Such blatant ignorance

Ignorance is no excuse.

amiable

gavredking wrote: »

Nobody is answering his question though, I suppose we could all check online and find out for ourselves though.

Of course you should before making such a ridiculous statement (which he knew would enflame)

Mr Alan

iregk wrote: »

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this but did Liverpool dish out lifetime bans for their fans part in Hillsborough. Not trying to be a dick here but for years we've been hearing about the police this, the stadium that, the government this. I don't think I've ever hear Liverpool fans actually owning up to their own fans responsibility in all of this as well. If someone can post up a link where Liverpool as a club or as a fans base have apologized for their part in it then I will condemn the chanting by any set of fans.

Is this for real?

amiable

iregk wrote: »

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this but did Liverpool dish out lifetime bans for their fans part in Hillsborough. Not trying to be a dick here but for years we've been hearing about the police this, the stadium that, the government this. I don't think I've ever hear Liverpool fans actually owning up to their own fans responsibility in all of this as well. If someone can post up a link where Liverpool as a club or as a fans base have apologized for their part in it then I will condemn the chanting by any set of fans.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/hillsborough-10-key-questions

It's not hard to do research when the internet is in front of you.

GavRedKing

amiable wrote: »

Such blatant ignorance

Nobody is answering his question though, I suppose we could all check online and find out for ourselves though.

amiable

iregk wrote: »

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this but did Liverpool dish out lifetime bans for their fans part in Hillsborough. Not trying to be a dick here but for years we've been hearing about the police this, the stadium that, the government this. I don't think I've ever hear Liverpool fans actually owning up to their own fans responsibility in all of this as well. If someone can post up a link where Liverpool as a club or as a fans base have apologized for their part in it then I will condemn the chanting by any set of fans.

Such blatant ignorance

Kolido

inforfun wrote: »

Terry is off side...

I wouldn't think so, the goal line is the end of the playing field so anything beyond it is irrelavant.
So he is level with at least 3 or 4 Spurs players.

adox

I just found the above two images randomly. The one thing is does possibly show is the players in the other photo do appear to have been photo shopped and moved further in to the goal.

Morzadec

Essien wrote: »

As bad as them? Really? I'd say he's nowhere near as bad as them to be fair

You do think he should condemn the fans though, unconditionally though surely?

Maybe not as bad as, but not condemning something as distasteful and disgusting as that chant is pretty awful imo.

inforfun

iregk wrote: »

Dunno to me that looks pretty in...

Terry is off side...

Essien

adox wrote: »

Essien wrote: »

That's a goal for me anyway, at least from that angle. Certainly nowhere near the farce it was made out to be - its marginal at the very worst

ITV had their computer image thingy of it after the game and it wasnt even on the line, never mind over it. Also The ref apologised to Harry after the game after viewing it again.

That's mad. I don't have the luxury of a slow mo replay so that image and a ****ty stream is all I have to work off. Just looking at that though, if you take the 6 on JT's shorts as a point of reference, that's at least half way over the line, the ball is at least another few inches past that, I can't really understand how it's not in. It's fairly deceptive if I'm wrong

Morzadec

gavredking wrote: »

Your dodging his original question TBF.

I'm not dodging his original question, as his original question is not the part of his post I take issue with. The answer to his question is I don't know, I don't know if they even have anything to apologise for, I'm not exactly sure what went on that day. I'm in no position to answer his question so i didn't. Maybe post it in the Liverpool thread, someone might know more than me.

I took issue with the part of his post that said his condemnation of the scum who chanted is conditional

LuckyLloyd

iregk wrote: »

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this but did Liverpool dish out lifetime bans for their fans part in Hillsborough. Not trying to be a dick here but for years we've been hearing about the police this, the stadium that, the government this. I don't think I've ever hear Liverpool fans actually owning up to their own fans responsibility in all of this as well. If someone can post up a link where Liverpool as a club or as a fans base have apologized for their part in it then I will condemn the chanting by any set of fans.

What exactly do you mean here?

LuckyLloyd

Some photoshopping has occured somewhere imo for that picture. It did not look anything that close with any of the TV replays yesterday (and the computer modelling of where the ball was relative to the goalline).

Essien

Morzadec wrote: »

iregk wrote: »

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this but did Liverpool dish out lifetime bans for their fans part in Hillsborough. Not trying to be a dick here but for years we've been hearing about the police this, the stadium that, the government this. I don't think I've ever hear Liverpool fans actually owning up to their own fans responsibility in all of this as well. If someone can post up a link where Liverpool as a club or as a fans base have apologized for their part in it then I will condemn the chanting by any set of fans.

Your condemnation of the disgusting chants by pure scumbags should not be conditional in any way. Makes you as bad as them imo. Disgusting

As bad as them? Really? I'd say he's nowhere near as bad as them to be fair

adox

Essien wrote: »

That's a goal for me anyway, at least from that angle. Certainly nowhere near the farce it was made out to be - its marginal at the very worst

ITV had their computer image thingy of it after the game and it wasnt even on the line, never mind over it. Also The ref apologised to Harry after the game after viewing it again.

Essien

iregk wrote: »

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

It wasnt a goal...

Dunno to me that looks pretty in...

That's a goal for me anyway, at least from that angle. Certainly nowhere near the farce it was made out to be - its marginal at the very worst

GavRedKing

Morzadec wrote: »

Your condemnation of the disgusting chants by pure scumbags should not be conditional in any way. Makes you as bad as them imo. Disgusting

Your dodging his original question TBF.

GavRedKing

iregk wrote: »

Dunno to me that looks pretty in...

Camera angle can be questioned as its not staright on but the game was much more then a goal that was or was not IMO. I think we deserved to win but the final score flattered us a bit.

Kolido wrote: »

As much as I condemn the disrespect the fans showed, but thats all it was, nothing illegal afaik, and I'm a Liverpool fan.
I stand to be corrected, but can you ban fans for this action?

I dont know about bans but their could be a case for inciting hate maybe? Not sure if theirs a case to be made but as a mark of respect an investiagtion into some fans behavoiur should be alunched by the FA and Chelsea to see if any fans can be caught clearly on camera.

As I said earlier, it will stand to Liverpool and the fans that Chelsea fans we're acting this way, it makes Kenny's team talk a lot easier on Cup Final day.

Morzadec

iregk wrote: »

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this but did Liverpool dish out lifetime bans for their fans part in Hillsborough. Not trying to be a dick here but for years we've been hearing about the police this, the stadium that, the government this. I don't think I've ever hear Liverpool fans actually owning up to their own fans responsibility in all of this as well. If someone can post up a link where Liverpool as a club or as a fans base have apologized for their part in it then I will condemn the chanting by any set of fans.

Your condemnation of the disgusting chants by pure scumbags should not be conditional in any way. Makes you as bad as them imo. Disgusting

Kolido

gavredking wrote: »

And I agree with you, its a matter for the FA as much as it for Chelsea FC to seek out those fans, but I feel it wont happen.

IMO the FA didnt help matters by insisting on a late K/O because it clashed with Sky's coverage of the United game, this game would have made more sense to have been played earlier, 12 K/O.

The fact that it wont be dealt with is because the FA will have played a part it and having a late K/O, they wont find against themselves.

As much as I condemn the disrespect the fans showed, but thats all it was, nothing illegal afaik, and I'm a Liverpool fan.
I stand to be corrected, but can you ban fans for this action?

iregk

gavredking wrote: »

I dont think that arguement belongs in this thread, it will drag it wildly off topic IMO.

Possibly. But seeing as how the overall argument came up and it happened during this game it warranted a post.

iregk

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

It wasnt a goal...

Dunno to me that looks pretty in...

GavRedKing

iregk wrote: »

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this but did Liverpool dish out lifetime bans for their fans part in Hillsborough. Not trying to be a dick here but for years we've been hearing about the police this, the stadium that, the government this. I don't think I've ever hear Liverpool fans actually owning up to their own fans responsibility in all of this as well. If someone can post up a link where Liverpool as a club or as a fans base have apologized for their part in it then I will condemn the chanting by any set of fans.

I dont think that arguement belongs in this thread, it will drag it wildly off topic IMO.