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Primary school college course and atheism

number10a

So, as I've mentioned on here a couple of times, I'm nearly finished the H. Dip. for primary school teaching. We have our online religion exam on Wednesday and I was going through the demo exam to make sure it works. Some of the questions that will be on it are actually shocking!! I cannot believe that a college in Ireland in 2012 is allowed to preach such shìt.

I've attached two sample questions from the exam for your viewing pleasure. The answer that I will have to choose to get the marks for the first attachment is "True". And in the second attachment, asking which statement is false, I will have to choose the one about Hinduism. So apparently, the one about atheism is true.

I am actually in shock. How can something that is so subjective and open to opinion be included in an exam in a modern college??? I could understand something like "Atheist humanism has produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed. Discuss." But actually putting a True/False option there?? There is no notable incident in history where someone actually went out and said "Oh those darn believers! I'll kill them all!!" I can think of plenty of examples where the reverse happened though.

I knew what I was letting myself in for when deciding to train as a primary school teacher in Ireland, but I didn't think it was this bad. I had already made up my mind that I was leaving Ireland as soon as I'm qualified (for a lot of reasons, teaching of religion being a more minor one), but this just confirms it even more. Effectively, I'm expected to spout this shìte out to a child if I ever teach in a Catholic school. Unbelievable.

/rant

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someoneok

Children are born atheists, let's not confuse them with the older generations fairytales.

darealtulip

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Religion is taught in every primary school in Ireland,has to be under our current system. There are NO non-denominational primary schools in Ireland. Educate together and some Gaelscoileanna are multi-denominational,where no one religion is favoured over another.

Alive-O is the Catholic religion syllabus for primary indoctrination, Learn together is the Educate together syllabus.

I was in Mary Immaculate college over 25 years ago and we learned about different religions but there was nothing like the type of q that seems to have appeared through Hibernia. There are lots of atheists in primary teaching, they just don't make it public to parents!!

Fixed it for you.

They tend to call it pre-evangelisation

robindch

darealtulip wrote: »

They tend to call it pre-evangelisation

The usual term is "faith formation"(*)

(*) You'll have to imagine the spitting sounds.

byhookorbycrook

Interestingly enough, the primary school act of 1831 was meant to establish non-denom. schools. There was a hour for lunch break, but this evolved into those staying for some kind of religious instruction for half an hour and then into what we have now.Traditionally religion was taught from 12-12.30 to allow those not taking part go home at that stage.

Technically, teachers were not paid for this half hour and the dept of ed does not inspect religion during a whole school inspection.

Yes, non-denom schools are possible, where there is no time spent teaching religion,a prayer is not said in the morning or so on.

darealtulip

robindch wrote: »

The usual term is "faith formation"(*)

(*) You'll have to imagine the spitting sounds.

no the catholic church revered to it as pre-evangelisation, it is mentioned under that term in Alive-O

Another interesting submission to the forum on pluralism on teacher colleges:

http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/fpp_sub_donnelly_dr_philomena.pdf

recedite

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Religion is taught in every primary school in Ireland,has to be under our current system. There are NO non-denominational primary schools in Ireland...

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Yes, non-denom schools are possible, where there is no time spent teaching religion...

Make your mind up!

darealtulip wrote: »

Another interesting submission to the forum on pluralism on teacher colleges:

http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/fpp_sub_donnelly_dr_philomena.pdf

Simple and sensible proposals; makes you wonder what the problem is in just getting on with it.

Silver_525

I'm doing that religion exam that the OP is referring to.
Just found the part about atheism that the question referred to in my notes...it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

So as you can see that wasn't some random question in the sample test, it's taken directly from the notes they give us...

swiftblade

Silver_525 wrote: »

I'm doing that religion exam that the OP is referring to.
Just found the part about atheism that the question referred to in my notes...it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

So as you can see that wasn't some random question in the sample test, it's taken directly from the notes they give us...

What The F**k.

That is one college I will be avoiding.

byhookorbycrook

Ok, to be clear,there are CURRENTLY no non-denom primary schools in Ireland, but that does not meant that there CANNOT be non-denoms in the near future.

recedite

it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history"

^^ Your notes are full of $hit.

FouxDaFaFa

Silver_525 wrote: »

Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

Who wrote your notes? This is such bullsh1t. I can't believe they're teaching this to kids.

darealtulip

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Who wrote your notes? This is such bullsh1t. I can't believe they're teaching this to kids.

worse they are teaching teachers to be!!!

FouxDaFaFa

Multiple post.

FouxDaFaFa

darealtulip wrote: »

worse they are teaching teachers to be!!!

I know. I probably should have said "I can't believe they will be teaching this to kids". The rage cloud made me unclear.

It's downright dangerous imo to have children associating atheism with the holocaust, Stalin, etc. It will just make any children who start doubting the situation think that they're monsters.

recedite

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ok, to be clear,there are CURRENTLY no non-denom primary schools in Ireland, but that does not meant that there CANNOT be non-denoms in the near future.

Is this what you mean by Non-denominational? Or do you mean the Irish Constitution and the school curriculum would be changed to allow schools spend zero time discussing religion. I'd prefer to get away from the word denomination altogether and just describe schools as either Indoctrinating or not.

Mark Hamill

Silver_525 wrote: »

I'm doing that religion exam that the OP is referring to.
Just found the part about atheism that the question referred to in my notes...it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

So as you can see that wasn't some random question in the sample test, it's taken directly from the notes they give us...

Someone should tell John Colgan and have him accuse the school of incitement to hatred. Because he would have a better chance with this than with that bishop. That is some of the most bigoted and hate filled lies I have ever read.

Mark Hamill

Silver_525 wrote: »

I'm doing that religion exam that the OP is referring to.
Just found the part about atheism that the question referred to in my notes...it goes as follows "Atheism seems to be fashionable in Ireland at present. It is seen as rational, progressive and compassionate. But above all, it is "in", not to mention convenient. What bothers very few of its latter-day exponents is the fact that atheist humanism produced the worst horrors history has ever witnessed, namely Nazism, Fascism and Marxism, the latter alone responsible for some 100 million lives, according to The Black Book written by French ex-Marxists. Atheism is not a benign force in history".

So as you can see that wasn't some random question in the sample test, it's taken directly from the notes they give us...

I closed the thread after my last post, but I could not get this out of my head. Its just so stupid and ignorant and clumsy (how hollow can someone's fear of atheism and humanism be?). Its just so.... I can't even describe it. Its so irritating and aggravating that this is being taught to f*cking teachers

Galvasean

I don't suppose they have a question about Christianity's Crusades or Inquisitions?

robindch

darealtulip wrote: »

no the catholic church revered to it as pre-evangelisation, it is mentioned under that term in Alive-O

"Pre-evangelization" -- ye gods, what a desperately Orwellian term. The following quote from Politics and the English Language is worth noting:

George Orwell wrote:

[...] Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different. Statements like "Marshal Petain was a true patriot", "The Soviet press is the freest in the world", "The Catholic Church is opposed to persecution", are almost always made with intent to deceive. [...]

darealtulip

Mark I can PM the contact detials of the college and the minister etc if you are want to email your concerns

magicbastarder

a follow up post on broadsheet, based on a comment in the original one:

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/02/22/ash-wednesday/

Sanjuro

eastbono wrote: »

Just dot the i's and cross the t's and get your dip. Then go and teach in another country.

Or would it not be more prudent to actually try to teach that this kind of thinking is false in this country? So that this line of thinking isn't perpetuated. Surely teaching isn't just a matter of maintaining the status quo but trying to open minds to actually thinking alternative views.

oceanclub

I've tried without success to contact the college generally.

Does someone have contact details for those administering this particular class/course?

Thanks,

P.

Amtmann

I fired off an email to academicaffairs@hiberniacollege.net and cc'd it to minister@education.gov.ie.

I suggest others do likewise.

I have long suspected that many primary school teachers tend to be cut from a very similar attitudinal cloth. It's unlikely that many atheist or agnostic young people would want to do a job in which it's a norm to prepare children for two or three religious rituals each year.

Mark Hamill

darealtulip wrote: »

Mark I can PM the contact detials of the college and the minister etc if you are want to email your concerns

Amtmann has put some details there, so I'll use those. If you know of better ones, though, I'll use them too.

Beruthiel

Amtmann wrote: »

I fired off an email to academicaffairs@hiberniacollege.net and cc'd it to minister@education.gov.ie.

Cheers for that, I just had to send a mail.

magicbastarder

10/1 that they will respond saying 'we will pray for you'.

Galvasean

I'm willing to bet they'll ignore it until it makes national mainstream news. Then they will cite a vague 'ethos' and complain about being oppressed. Then people will write into the Indo about 'militant secularism'.

darealtulip

For the minister: (01) 889233 MINISTER@education.gov.ie or for teacher education tes@education.gov.ie. Press office: (01) 8892162 / 8892322 and Secretary General: (01) 8892280

Hibernia College Dublin
2 Clare Street, Dublin 2, Ireland.

Email: academicaffairs@hiberniacollege.net
Phone: +353 (0)1 661 0168
Fax: +353 (0)1 661 0162

Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act, 1989

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/en/act/pub/0019/print.html#sec4

Thinking about ringing the guards, read section 4

oceanclub

Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act, 1989

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1989/...rint.html#sec4

Thinking about ringing the guards, read section 4
__________________

Personally as a proponent of free speech I disagree with this tactic. While I don't think a college should be teaching anti-religious bigotry as objective fact and being approved to do so by the Dept of Education, I also don't think that anti-hatred legislation should be use unless the writer is directly inciting violence, which in this case, they aren't.

P.