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gawker · 29-01-2012, 23:10

A HOMILY delivered at Knock shrine by the Bishop of Raphoe, Philip Boyce, is being investigated by the Director of Public Prosecutions following a formal complaint by a leading humanist who claims the sermon was an incitement to hatred.

The gardai have confirmed to former Fine Gael election candidate John Colgan that they have prepared and forwarded a file to the DPP after he made allegations that the address by Dr Boyce was in breach of the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act, 1989.

The homily, entitled: "To Trust in God" was delivered to worshippers during a novena at the Marian shrine in Co Mayo last August and subsequently reported in the media, including The Irish Times, under the headline: "'Godless culture' attacking church, says bishop."

Mr Colgan, a retired chartered engineer and economist from Leixlip, Co Kildare, referred in his formal complaint to two key passages in Dr Boyce's homily which he believes broke the law.

One of the passages referred to the Catholic Church in Ireland being "attacked from outside by the arrows of a secular and godless culture".

A second passage, which was included in the complaint, stated: "For the distinguishing mark of Christian believers is the fact they have a future; it is not that they know all the details that await them, but they know in general terms that their life will not end in emptiness."

Mr Colgan, who was a leader in the 'Campaign to Separate Church and State' in the late 1990s, said in his complaint: "I believe statements of this kind are an incitement to hatred of dissidents, outsiders, secularists, within the meaning of the [Incitement to Hatred] Act, who are perfectly good citizens within the meaning of the civil law. The statements exemplify the chronic antipathy towards secularists, humanists etc, which has manifested itself in the ostracising of otherwise perfectly good Irish citizens, who do not share the aims of the Vatican's Irish Mission Church."

More @ http://www.independent.ie/national-n...y-3003057.html

Surprised this has not popped up here yet. I think it's a stupid thing to do. It is a waste of taxpayers money having it "investigated" and frankly an embarrassment to the humanist community of Ireland. I mean, this plays into the exact stereotype those on the religious right would like to portray athiests as: people who try get in the way of their "faith" and how they practice it.

I agree the Bishop seems a bit of a headcase and what he said was wrong, but they are doing to do nothing other than make him surer of his convictions that Catholicism in Ireland is under attack.

Sometimes I wonder if there is room for a new religion called "common sense"...

What do you all think?

fisgon · 29-01-2012, 23:51

Obviously there is no encitement to hatred here. The guy is wrong headed and overreacting.
There is, however, the usual incitement to ignorance, paranoia, victimhood, and the adoption of a persection complex by the cleric involved, but it's the Catholic church, so what does he expect? This guy Colgan's complaint is just silly, and he should keep his powder dry for some real battles that are worth fighting.

Lucy8080 · 30-01-2012, 00:06

i wouldnt even put the homily under" religious right". i doubt if anyone round these parts feels threatened.

i just get the smell of someone who is looking to be offended.

i would imagine that catholicism feels a bit of a siege mentalitiy in the last few years...so i would excuse on those grounds an alex ferguson team talk..

and as for a faith in the future....thats the right of all religions...no surprise there. you would hope they would give that at least to the flock.

o.t.t.

makes the bishop look good i.m.o.

maybe the complainer is a double agent!

***Dades*** · 30-01-2012, 11:31

Surely there's worse things said in sermons around the country that go unreported. Mountain out a molehill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy8080

makes the bishop look good i.m.o.

I doubt that.

irishben · 30-01-2012, 12:21

I believe the incitement to hatred bill is the same as censorship. That is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, or inconvenient to the general body of people as determined by a government, or other controlling body. Its a slippery slope we're on, if this Bishop is prosecuted.

MagicMarker · 30-01-2012, 12:25

Well, if this can go to court, anything is possible!!

the_syco · 30-01-2012, 13:37

Although I agree with him to a point, the fact that Mr Colgan was in a RC church in the first place says to me that he was looking for a fight...!

**bluewolf** · 30-01-2012, 13:42

is this bishop accused then and not accusing? the title is a bit misleading

it would be pretty funny if a bishop were making those accusations

anyway i think it's a bit of a fuss about nothing, duno why the guy is complaining, the bishop was clearly saying "we believe in an afterlife so nyahh"

gawker · 30-01-2012, 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluewolf

is this bishop accused then and not accusing? the title is a bit misleading

Good spot, my mistake!

***Dades*** · 30-01-2012, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluewolf

is this bishop accused then and not accusing? the title is a bit misleading

Fixed!

For clarification title changed from "Bishop Accuses of Incitement to Hatred" to "Bishop Accused of Incitement to Hatred..."

expectationlost · 30-01-2012, 14:53

its not that he said something directly hateful but if you suggest to people that they are being attacked, that could incite hate, I mean that is the classic way of doing it, anyway it won't go anywhere

here's the full speech,
http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/01/...ermon-in-full/

what was that thing the pope said about sword

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ope-and-islam/
http://onecatholicnews.wordpress.com...d-persecution/

that was all the way back in 2006?

**tricky D** · 30-01-2012, 14:58

Too much of both intolerance and taking offense in the world these days.

*Otacon* · 30-01-2012, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_syco

Although I agree with him to a point, the fact that Mr Colgan was in a RC church in the first place says to me that he was looking for a fight...!

Is he an atheist? Only mentioned that he was involved in 'Campaign to Separate Church and State'. He could be a catholic.

**robindch** · 30-01-2012, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky D

Too much of both intolerance and taking offense in the world these days.

RichieC · 30-01-2012, 16:30

We'd never be out of court if we were to react like this every time christians voiced their persecution complex.

29-01-2012, 23:10	#1
gawker Registered User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 152 Adverts \| Friends	Bishop Accused of Incitement to Hatred - File Sent to DPP A HOMILY delivered at Knock shrine by the Bishop of Raphoe, Philip Boyce, is being investigated by the Director of Public Prosecutions following a formal complaint by a leading humanist who claims the sermon was an incitement to hatred. The gardai have confirmed to former Fine Gael election candidate John Colgan that they have prepared and forwarded a file to the DPP after he made allegations that the address by Dr Boyce was in breach of the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act, 1989. The homily, entitled: "To Trust in God" was delivered to worshippers during a novena at the Marian shrine in Co Mayo last August and subsequently reported in the media, including The Irish Times, under the headline: "'Godless culture' attacking church, says bishop." Mr Colgan, a retired chartered engineer and economist from Leixlip, Co Kildare, referred in his formal complaint to two key passages in Dr Boyce's homily which he believes broke the law. One of the passages referred to the Catholic Church in Ireland being "attacked from outside by the arrows of a secular and godless culture". A second passage, which was included in the complaint, stated: "For the distinguishing mark of Christian believers is the fact they have a future; it is not that they know all the details that await them, but they know in general terms that their life will not end in emptiness." Mr Colgan, who was a leader in the 'Campaign to Separate Church and State' in the late 1990s, said in his complaint: "I believe statements of this kind are an incitement to hatred of dissidents, outsiders, secularists, within the meaning of the [Incitement to Hatred] Act, who are perfectly good citizens within the meaning of the civil law. The statements exemplify the chronic antipathy towards secularists, humanists etc, which has manifested itself in the ostracising of otherwise perfectly good Irish citizens, who do not share the aims of the Vatican's Irish Mission Church." More @ http://www.independent.ie/national-n...y-3003057.html Surprised this has not popped up here yet. I think it's a stupid thing to do. It is a waste of taxpayers money having it "investigated" and frankly an embarrassment to the humanist community of Ireland. I mean, this plays into the exact stereotype those on the religious right would like to portray athiests as: people who try get in the way of their "faith" and how they practice it. I agree the Bishop seems a bit of a headcase and what he said was wrong, but they are doing to do nothing other than make him surer of his convictions that Catholicism in Ireland is under attack. Sometimes I wonder if there is room for a new religion called "common sense"... What do you all think? Last edited by gawker; 29-01-2012 at 23:19.

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29-01-2012, 23:51	#2
fisgon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 894 Adverts \| Friends	Obviously there is no encitement to hatred here. The guy is wrong headed and overreacting. There is, however, the usual incitement to ignorance, paranoia, victimhood, and the adoption of a persection complex by the cleric involved, but it's the Catholic church, so what does he expect? This guy Colgan's complaint is just silly, and he should keep his powder dry for some real battles that are worth fighting.

30-01-2012, 00:06	#3
Lucy8080 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 368 Adverts \| Friends	i wouldnt even put the homily under" religious right". i doubt if anyone round these parts feels threatened. i just get the smell of someone who is looking to be offended. i would imagine that catholicism feels a bit of a siege mentalitiy in the last few years...so i would excuse on those grounds an alex ferguson team talk.. and as for a faith in the future....thats the right of all religions...no surprise there. you would hope they would give that at least to the flock. o.t.t. makes the bishop look good i.m.o. maybe the complainer is a double agent!

30-01-2012, 12:21	#5
irishben Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: dublin Posts: 22 Adverts \| Friends	I believe the incitement to hatred bill is the same as censorship. That is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, or inconvenient to the general body of people as determined by a government, or other controlling body. Its a slippery slope we're on, if this Bishop is prosecuted.

30-01-2012, 12:25	#6
MagicMarker Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pale Blue Dot Posts: 28,382 Adverts \| Friends	Well, if this can go to court, anything is possible!!

30-01-2012, 13:37	#7
the_syco Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Leixlip Posts: 23,065 Adverts \| Friends	Although I agree with him to a point, the fact that Mr Colgan was in a RC church in the first place says to me that he was looking for a fight...!

30-01-2012, 13:42	#8
bluewolf Moderator Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 41,317 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Libertaire, Personal Issues, Politics, Separation and Divorce	is this bishop accused then and not accusing? the title is a bit misleading it would be pretty funny if a bishop were making those accusations anyway i think it's a bit of a fuss about nothing, duno why the guy is complaining, the bishop was clearly saying "we believe in an afterlife so nyahh"

30-01-2012, 14:53	#11
expectationlost Registered User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,583 Adverts \| Friends	its not that he said something directly hateful but if you suggest to people that they are being attacked, that could incite hate, I mean that is the classic way of doing it, anyway it won't go anywhere here's the full speech, http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/01/...ermon-in-full/ what was that thing the pope said about sword http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ope-and-islam/ http://onecatholicnews.wordpress.com...d-persecution/ that was all the way back in 2006?

30-01-2012, 14:58	#12
tricky D Moderator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Not Mars. Nope. Posts: 4,666 Adverts \| Friends Mod: Maritime	Too much of both intolerance and taking offense in the world these days.

30-01-2012, 16:30	#15
RichieC Closed Account Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,251 Adverts \| Friends	We'd never be out of court if we were to react like this every time christians voiced their persecution complex.