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RTÉNL Saorview-DTT Public Information

The Cush

Two new documents added to the RTÉNL Saorview webpage - http://www.rtenl.ie/broadcast/saorview-digital-television.html and also link to the Saorview Coverage Checker

- Connecting a Television Set to SAORVIEW - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/connecting_a_television_set_to_saorview.pdf
- RTÉ NL SAORVIEW FAQ's - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rtenl_saorview_faqs_feb_2011_rev_1.pdf

To be read in conjunction with the Saorview-DTT-October2010 brochure and Saorview-DTT Minimum Receiver Requirements.

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galtee boy

Elmo wrote: »

Still not available on films, would be handy for them, soaps, you turn your tv on and you press record okay not as handy as series link but it might improve your memory

I presume you're winding me up ! If I was in the house to turn the tv on and press record, then I wouldn't need series link in the first place. We watch very little "live" tv anymore. We pick what we want at the weekend for the week ahead, series link it if there is more than one show/episode, which invariably there is and then watch, when we want to watch. And to be able to zap through the adverts, is priceless, for everything else, there's Mastercard ! I would love to go Saorview Pvr/Freesat Pvr and dump Sky, but not until Saorview get series link working.

byte

I wonder who's coming up with a Saorview approved Combi...

Maybe Triax with a new combi box, without the niggles of their existing Combi with MHEG5...

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

On a simillar point, why do they not show films or some such on RTE 2 HD while the RTE Jr programmes are on RTE 2 (SD)? We have now got two kids channels during the day (3 if you include TG4).

Following the European DTT trend it seems - http://www.rapidtvnews.com/index.php/2011092015311/euro-dtt-kids-channels-on-the-growth-path.html

Until Phase 2, possibly next May according to RTÉ, RTÉ 2 HD children/teen programming will be a simulcast of analogue RTÉ 2.

Macy0161 wrote: »

My main issue regarding RTEjr is that it's not on at the weekend. Especially as the bandwidth isn't being used for anything else. Not sure whether that was a BAI decision or RTE never looked for it.

Money according to RTÉ from the new channels consultation last Nov.

There is a two phased approach to this channel which according to RTÉ is primarily being driven by technology and costs.

In Phase One the service will broadcast from 1100 to 1900 on weekdays. The schedule will simulcast the RTÉjr content from RTÉ Two from 0900 to 1200 hours and a replay of this programme loop will be repeated until 1900. It is not possible to provide this service at the weekend in Phase 1 due to technological limitations.

In Phase Two, investment in technology and infrastructure will enable the creation of a unique looped schedule for this service running from
0700 to 1900 and will enable RTÉ to broaden the service to weekends.

In Phase Two, investment in content, technology and infrastructure will enable the creation of a unique looped schedule for this service and will enable RTÉ to broaden the service to weekends.

The Cush

galtee boy wrote: »

I know it's hard to think of everything, but was there any mention of series link ? Any PVR's without series link provided by Saorview, will be practically useless.

Didn't ask about series link, I'm more interested in seeing a certifed product first.

The series link may come sooner rather than later now that they've contracted Red Bee Media to provide the epg metadata for Saorview.

Elmo

galtee boy wrote: »

I presume you're winding me up ! If I was in the house to turn the tv on and press record, then I wouldn't need series link in the first place. We watch very little "live" tv anymore. We pick what we want at the weekend for the week ahead, series link it if there is more than one show/episode, which invariably there is and then watch, when we want to watch. And to be able to zap through the adverts, is priceless, for everything else, there's Mastercard ! I would love to go Saorview Pvr/Freesat Pvr and dump Sky, but not until Saorview get series link working.

Partly but also I don't think it makes much of a difference. If you are setting your PVR to record each week then you are making sure your shows are being recorded. The EPG has a 7 day Guide.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

Rev. 3 of the Saorview FAQ now up

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/RTÉNL-SAORVIEW-FAQs-May-2011-Rev-3-0.pdf

Rev 4 of the Saorview FAQ now up

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/RTÉNL-SAORVIEW-FAQs-Sept-2011-Rev-4.0.pdf

Some minor changes from Rev.3 - aerial installers page and information on Saorsat in late 2011 or early 2012. The recently announced all-Ireland ASO date isn't included.

Elmo

Department have give a date of the 24th Oct 2012 (I'll as it now and you can quote me on it in the future, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN).

They also have launch another DTT Public Information site with ads called www.goingdigital.ie, Gay Byrne fronts the new ads.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Department have give a date of the 24th Oct 2012 (I'll as it now and you can quote me on it in the future, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN).

Why?

Elmo wrote: »

They also have launch another DTT Public Information site with ads called www.goingdigital.ie, Gay Byrne fronts the new ads.

Launched last Friday, discussed here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74923919#post74923919

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

Why?

Well when it happens I will eat my words

but seriously name a country that has had a successful ASO/DSO? I would be surprised if an Irish Minister does bottle it and doesn't asks RTÉ to switch it back on! Come Oct 25.

Launched last Friday, discussed here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...9#post74923919

Yeah I heard about it on the Radio on Friday alright just thought that you would post it into the Saorview-DTT Public Information thread as well its DTT Public Information, but I suppose we shouldn't confuse people with two different apposing Public Information pieces :rolleyes:

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Well when it happens I will eat my words but seriously name a country that has had a successful ASO/DSO? I would be surprised if an Irish Minister does bottle it and doesn't asks RTÉ to switch it back on!

Define successful. Name a country that hasn't had a successful ASO and switched analogue back on?

Elmo wrote: »

Yeah I heard about it on the Radio on Friday alright just thought that you would post it into the Saorview-DTT Public Information thread as well its DTT Public Information, but I suppose we shouldn't confuse people with two different apposing Public Information pieces :rolleyes:

2 different campaigns, the Saorview campaign being run by RTÉ and the ASO/DSO campaign being run by the Dept as per the Broadcasting Act.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

Define successful. Name a country that hasn't had a successful ASO and switched analogue back on?

2 different campaigns, the Saorview campaign being run by RTÉ and the ASO/DSO campaign being run by the Dept as per the Broadcasting Act.

Name a country that has had a successful first run of DTT, or second run where it ended in ASO/DSO. (I think that covers my bases

)

Indeed 2 different campaigns, lets hope there is communication between both.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Name a country that has had a successful first run of DTT,

Norway
DTT launched 1st Sept 2007
ASO completed 1st Dec 2009

BTW: Malta switches off it's analogue network on Oct 31st

Elmo wrote: »

or second run where it ended in ASO/DSO. (I think that covers my bases )

Spain
DTT first launch May 2000, failed April 2002
DTT relaunch Dec 2005
ASO completed 2nd Apr 2010

Elmo wrote: »

(I think that covers my bases )

It doesn't, I've answered your questions you haven't answered my question above "Name a country that hasn't had a successful ASO and switched analogue back on?"

Elmo wrote: »

Indeed 2 different campaigns, lets hope there is communication between both.

RTÉ is a member of the Dept of Communication DSO Steering Group that developed the Going Digital Programme.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

It doesn't, I've answered your questions you haven't answered my question above "Name a country that hasn't had a successful ASO and switched analogue back on?"

Ireland

Seriously there are more examples of failed launched and then trying to do it again across Europe. This is an issue for the ASO/DSO date IMO. Perhaps I will be proved wrong and Ireland will have the most successful launch of DTT ever on its first try. Lets hope the +1 channel appear soon.

Who else is on that stearing committee? BAI, SKY, TV3, TG4, UPC ?????

Spain
DTT first launch May 2000, failed April 2002
DTT relaunch Dec 2005
ASO completed 2nd Apr 2010

Nearly 5 years later, 10 if you include 2000's launch.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Seriously there are more examples of failed launched and then trying to do it again across Europe.

And you can't identify even one. The initial launches in Spain and the UK failed and Sweden came close I believe, they were the first 3 countries in Europe to launch DTT services. Other countries learned lesson from these failures as they launched their DTT services. Don't know of any other failed launches. Post the information here when you find it.

Elmo wrote: »

Who else is on that stearing committee? BAI, SKY, TV3, TG4, UPC ?????

Dept, RTÉ, RTÉNL, TV3, TG4, BAI, Comreg

Elmo wrote: »

Spain
DTT first launch May 2000, failed April 2002
DTT relaunch Dec 2005
ASO completed 2nd Apr 2010

Nearly 5 years later, 10 if you include 2000's launch.

I don't see your point, the UK is taking 14 years to ASO, Ireland is doing it in 18 or 24 months (depending on which start date you use). ASO dates are for each country to decide within EU recommendations or regulations.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

And you can't identify even one. The initial launches in Spain and the UK failed and Sweden came close I believe, they were the first 3 countries in Europe to launch DTT services. Other countries learned lesson from these failures as they launched their DTT services. Don't know of any other failed launches. Post the information here when you find it.

Dept, RTÉ, RTÉNL, TV3, TG4, BAI, Comreg

I don't see your point, the UK is taking 14 years to ASO, Ireland is doing it in 18 or 24 months (depending on which start date you use). ASO dates are for each country to decide within EU recommendations or regulations.

I suppose the failures are highlight more, Sweden is a good example of forced DTT, something that Ireland is trying to imitate, will it work with so few services?

"depending on which start date"

Spring 2011.

watty

The number of channels isn't relevant.

If there was only 1 channel ASO would still work.

No-one has ever turned Analogue back on. Changed the switch off date. Changed who operates the DTT, changed the campaign and even switched standard. All BEFORE any ASO.

The initial DTT launches in Spain and UK failed, but not one Analogue transmitter had been turned of nor was ASO date even close.

DSO is not ASO either. The failures in Spain, UK, Sweden, Poland and South Africa where before any ASO. They were problems with digital rollout before even DSO started.

icdg

i don't think ASO will be reversed when it does happen, although this is Ireland so one never knows. I do think it will end up being postponed. Twelve months is far too ambitious, it took the UK fourteen years with a higher percentage of households using terrestrial as their only source of TV, and a DTT network that actually had a huge incentive (thirty free channels) for people to switch over. And the price of STBs being far lower than they are here at present.

Sam Russell

icdg wrote: »

i don't think ASO will be reversed when it does happen, although this is Ireland so one never knows. I do think it will end up being postponed. Twelve months is far too ambitious, it took the UK fourteen years with a higher percentage of households using terrestrial as their only source of TV, and a DTT network that actually had a huge incentive (thirty free channels) for people to switch over. And the price of STBs being far lower than they are here at present.

The incentive for people to change over to DTT is the total shut down of the analogue service. I think that they should have gone for December 2011, just 50 years after they turned it on, but they should have started the information two years ago. By delaying, they have allowed dodgy retailers to dump MPEG2 sets onto an unsuspecting public.

Most people will just go out and get what is required, that is a STB. The dept should have concentrated on getting a few low price boxes onto the market, but by having a very high price for certification, and choosing an unusual (unique to Ireland) specification for the service instead of going for a more widely used definition. This combination has resulted in a very small variety of STBs available for sale here. If the Vestel box is taken out, there are very few left.

If RTE would put messages on the TV screen telling people the identity of the transmitter they are watching, whether it has a DTT service associated with it, and whether a change of aerial is required. Even telling viewers that 'THIS SERVICE IS DUE TO CLOSE ON 24th October 2012' They have 144 sites for analogue, but only 51 for DTT, some of which are new. This would help, but would not be a complete answer.

Overall, the DTT changeover has been a long and tortuous journey, filled with disappointments, missed oportunities, and mistakes.

The Cush

icdg wrote: »

I do think it will end up being postponed.

Two possible obstacles to a delay would be our coordinated ASO with NI and how any delay down here would impact the switching over to DTT at the relays. As the switchover is being coordinated island wide I assume some of our analogue frequencies will be reused north of the border for DTT.

The other obstacle is the requirement to clear the upper TV band of broadcasting by the 1st Jan 2013 for mobile services. The band is to auctioned early next year with availability from 1st Feb 2013.

Any delay could require analogue replanning down here.

watty

Since the Digital Terrestrial network is all 100% running and Ka-Sat works, why would there be any delay? We already have better Digital than Analogue coverage, though it's not the same coverage, because the sites are better choices. Some people will lose Terrestrial, but less than those that have gained it. Hence Saorsat.

For once Politicians can't back track because they think it might give a few extra votes like with Deflector shut down many years ago. (Is there any election at end 2012 early 2013 anyway?). Ireland signed an agreement with UK. The UK has also published the firm date of 24th October 2012.

Unlike the extension period in USA, it's pure fantasy to think it will be delayed. The one year period is deliberate. The long drawn out "area by area" complex DSO / ASO in UK with multiple retuning actually created problems and uncertainty. The plan here since 2008 or so has been to only announce a final date just before a year in advance and only run ASO publicity for 1 year before ASO. Focus people on it.

The fact that the "mobile services" on 790MHz to 862MHz is being done wrong and is largely pointless exercise is a separate issue.

There is no political or public pressure to have a more drawn out process and no technical reason for any delay.

In fact it could be argued that if there wasn't the whole circus of trying to create Terrestrial Pay TV we would be looking at ASO this weekend and we would have seen Public launch in May 2010 instead of May 2011. There was five years of uncertainty created by Governmental policy. Ten years if you count the 1999/2000 debacle and "It's TV" in 2001.

That's all behind us now.

SPDUB

watty wrote: »

There is no political or public pressure to have a more drawn out process and no technical reason for any delay.

Not really a great argument that there is no public pressure because a lot of the people who it will directly affect haven't been aware , and if the two people at my work are any indication still are barely aware that there has been a DTT service available let alone ASO .

Sam Russell

SPDUB wrote: »

Not really a great argument that there is no public pressure because a lot of the people who it will directly affect haven't been aware , and if the two people at my work are any indication still are barely aware that there has been a DTT service available let alone ASO .

But that surely is the point as to why the ASO should have been set for this year. Once DTT was up and running (Oct 2010) a year is plenty of time. Giving more time has just meant it will not be started until just before the end anyway. Reminds me of the sign in the purchasing office - 'Of course I want it today, if I wanted it tomorrow, I'd order it tomorrow!' Nothing significant happened between last October (when 95% population coverage was achieved and the 'final' channels began broadcasting) and May 26th 2011, when Pat Rabitte cut the ribbon in Montrose and declared everything 'Offical'. Then again not much has happened since. RTE are still ignoring the DTT service, and treating 24th October 2012 as the (third) launch of the service.

By the way, has Mux2 been turned off nationwide? No sign of it for me (3Rock or Kippure) for the last while.

watty

The UK had already planned that ASO in N.I. would be 2012. The Governments agreed the dates needed to be the same.

You make my point Sam. There is no reason at all why the 24th Oct 2012 won't be met.

SPDUB

watty wrote: »

You make my point Sam. There is no reason at all why the 24th Oct 2012 won't be met.

Maybe it will but no public pressure will only be a valid argument from about September next year

byte

But surely people will know about the switchover in a year.

A year, IMO, is loads of time. No point in dragging it out. Anyway, as has been mentioned, I think we may need to stick to it, to coincide with NI ASO.

Sam Russell

SPDUB wrote: »

Maybe it will but no public pressure will only be a valid argument from about September next year

They did drop the RTE HD only plan for a while and had simulcast RTE 2 and RTE 2 HD for a few months. I do not think they could stand the embarassment of another climb down. But then again, they do appear to be beyond that kind of embarassment.

Enda Murphy

That fool pat rabbitte is saying it will be great having an irish childrens station well we have had 13 hours per day of kids shows on Rte 2 for 12 years or so and its a disgrace all the repeats they show, How often have they repeated sabrina the teenage witch ?

Sam Russell

Enda Murphy wrote: »

That fool pat rabbitte is saying it will be great having an irish childrens station well we have had 13 hours per day of kids shows on Rte 2 for 12 years or so and its a disgrace all the repeats they show, How often have they repeated sabrina the teenage witch ?

Again he is talking in the future. Is this the same Rabitte that launched the service on 26th May last?

The RTE jr channel was part of the original line up launced on 29th Oct 2010 26th May 2011, and has been hobbled by the previous minister, and by RTE's reluctance to pay for programmes on the weekend.

By the way, today I heard a mention of RTE News Now on the radio. Is this the first?

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

By the way, today I heard a mention of RTE News Now on the radio. Is this the first?

Well Tv3 are mentioning Saorview now too. I wonder are they are actually paying the network charges or is that up to the taxpayer in TV3s world ?

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

Well Tv3 are mentioning Saorview now too. I wonder are they are actually paying the network charges or is that up to the taxpayer in TV3s world ?

Those are adverts I think, possibly paid for by the Dept, but may be offset against transmission fees. Who knows?