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Child Item

Templars Hall ..Getting out of Hand..

ROCKMAN

Just listen to WLR this morning and a local councillor going on about the late night parties and street drink etc by "students " in and around Templars Hall Seems like things are getting out of hand there at the moment ,
Feel sorry for the residents ,
The knock on effect of €2 night ....

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Nolanger

Hopefully when WIT becomes a university the points requirements will go up and those pi**heads won't be able to get in!

stacexD

Giving out about Templars hall is a load of b*llix really.
It's not the colleges fault there is nothing they can do about it.
How is it not the councils fault for giving permission to open a college there?

Templars is around 80% students afaik, it isn't going to change and if the residents can't deal with that then they need to spend their spare time house hunting rather than phoning a radio station.
If you don't like the situation and you can't get anything done about it all you can do is remove yourself from the situation. Sure everyone is entitled to this and that and a good nights sleep but life isn't always fair!

They made a bad investment and if they can't live there any longer the smart thing to do is just take the plunge and sell it to a landlord. At a loss probably but there really is no better time to get out and buy elsewhere while house prices are down.

The people who still live there are the stubborn ones who will always come up with excuses and blame the students for ruining their lives but realistically theres nothing anyone can do about it but themselves.

If everyone sold up and templars became a student village it would be better for everyone. But it won't happen because people would rather complain for the rest of their lives rather than just take the loss and pay an extra few quid a month and get out of there.

And again... whatever people are entitled to and whatever the law or code of conduct is, this is the real world nobody really cares, if they did they would have sorted it by now

AdMMM

What a naive and misinformed post!

jimbojazz

stacexD wrote: »

Giving out about Templars hall is a load of b*llix really.
It's not the colleges fault there is nothing they can do about it.
How is it not the councils fault for giving permission to open a college there?

Templars is around 80% students afaik, it isn't going to change and if the residents can't deal with that then they need to spend their spare time house hunting rather than phoning a radio station.
If you don't like the situation and you can't get anything done about it all you can do is remove yourself from the situation. Sure everyone is entitled to this and that and a good nights sleep but life isn't always fair!

They made a bad investment and if they can't live there any longer the smart thing to do is just take the plunge and sell it to a landlord. At a loss probably but there really is no better time to get out and buy elsewhere while house prices are down.

The people who still live there are the stubborn ones who will always come up with excuses and blame the students for ruining their lives but realistically theres nothing anyone can do about it but themselves.

If everyone sold up and templars became a student village it would be better for everyone. But it won't happen because people would rather complain for the rest of their lives rather than just take the loss and pay an extra few quid a month and get out of there.

And again... whatever people are entitled to and whatever the law or code of conduct is, this is the real world nobody really cares, if they did they would have sorted it by now

Without doubt the most ignorant and uneducated post I've ever read anywhere on any forum I've ever been on

Cabaal

stacexD wrote: »

Giving out about Templars hall is a load of b*llix really.
It's not the colleges fault there is nothing they can do about it.
How is it not the councils fault for giving permission to open a college there?

Templars is around 80% students afaik, it isn't going to change and if the residents can't deal with that then they need to spend their spare time house hunting rather than phoning a radio station.
If you don't like the situation and you can't get anything done about it all you can do is remove yourself from the situation. Sure everyone is entitled to this and that and a good nights sleep but life isn't always fair!

They made a bad investment and if they can't live there any longer the smart thing to do is just take the plunge and sell it to a landlord. At a loss probably but there really is no better time to get out and buy elsewhere while house prices are down.

The people who still live there are the stubborn ones who will always come up with excuses and blame the students for ruining their lives but realistically theres nothing anyone can do about it but themselves.

If everyone sold up and templars became a student village it would be better for everyone. But it won't happen because people would rather complain for the rest of their lives rather than just take the loss and pay an extra few quid a month and get out of there.

And again... whatever people are entitled to and whatever the law or code of conduct is, this is the real world nobody really cares, if they did they would have sorted it by now

Under 21 by any chance?

Student by any chance? (You are based on your posts)

Don't have a mortgage?

Never been driven to the edge of insanity due to the noise of neighbors?

Don't understand the issues that selling at a loss would cause to your life?

I'm guessing you either fit all or atleast the majority of the above.
Your either a troll or somebody that hasn't actually experience "real" life but think they have as you "appear" to be all knowingly, however you're not and you will eventually learn that in a few years.

In any case you're pretty clueless.
:rolleyes:

Potential-Monke

First off, i do feel sorry for any permanent residents of Templars Hall, as many of them have said you have to experience it to realise how bad it can get.

Right, to clear something up, a noise complaint, or noise pollution, does not fall within the remit of Criminal Law, it's a civil law and the Gardai can do nothing about noise. They can, as a matter of courtesy, call to the house and request them resident to turn down the music, but the resident can tell them exactly where to go. And they can't enter the house without the permission of the resident (or with a warrant in other circumstance, no warrants for noise!). As someone mentioned in page 3 (i think) you need to make a noise complaint to the Environmental Protection Agency. It's long and hard to get results, but it's the only avenue for noise complaints.

Damage to someone elses property is a Garda matter. Drinking in the street is a Garda matter. Urinitaing in public is a Garda matter (however, taking a number 2 is not illegal!?!?!). Ring the Gardai about this. And remember, there are less Gardai then there was even 2 years ago, so don't expect an immediate response. Also, there are other, more serious (yes, more serious) things happening around the city the whole time* (not all the time).

Maybe the THRA (is that what it's called?) should request from the local Chief Superintendent that whatever Community Policing Unit are working should be on permanent foot/bike patrol in Templars from 8pm until 3/4am? Prevention is better than cure. Or get back onto WCC and see if they can fund putting CCTV in there, give the Gardai some solid evidence to work with.

And finally, WIT cannot do anything about the behaviour of them. Saying that whatever the students do, be it criminal or civil, should be reported to WIT is a breach of their rights. It would be a huge Data Protection scandal. To use an example above, if you get arrested for pissing in the street, and the Gardai report that to your employer, you have huge grounds for a case against the state due to breach of Data Protection. Same goes for students and WIT. Unfortunately.

Best of luck to anyone involved.

*From a Garda friend

jimbojazz

Think this covers a lot of what is going on out there
Intoxication (being drunk) in a public place

Section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 deals with the offence of being intoxicated (that is, drunk) in a public place. While the maximum fine for being intoxicated in a public place in Ireland is €500, the section gives the Gardai the power to seize the intoxicating substance (normally, the alcohol) where they suspect that an offence of being intoxicated in a public place is being committed.
Section 23B has been inserted in the Act by section 184 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (pdf) and provides for a fixed charge fine instead of court proceedings for being intoxicated in a public place. This fixed charge fine, currently €100, may be set and varied by the Minister for Justice and Equality.
Disorderly conduct in a public place

This offence is concerned with what is described as “offensive conduct”.
Section 5(i) of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 makes it an offence for anyone in a public place to engage in offensive conduct:

Between the hours of 12 o’clock midnight and 7 o’clock in the morning next following; or
At any time, after having been requested by a member of An Garda Siochana to desist.

Offensive conduct is unreasonable behaviour which (having regard to the circumstances), is likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance to other people. The penalty for this offence is €1,000.
The purpose of this offence was to deal with the types of disorderly behaviour which falls short of threatening behaviour but could nevertheless adversely affect the quality of people’s lives. A typical example of this offence would be people shouting late at night having left nightclubs where this would cause serious annoyance to local residents.Section 23A has been inserted in the Act by Section 184 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (pdf) and allows the Gardai to impose a fixed charge fine for disorderly conduct in a public place instead of court proceedings for this offence. In order to have the offence treated as a fixed charge offence, you must give your name and address to the Garda. Failure to do so means you may arrested without warrant and be convicted of a summary offence for which the maximum penalty is a fine of €1,500. If the Gardai choose to have this offence treated as a fixed-charge offence, they may serve notice on you that you will not be charged if a stated amount is paid within 28 days. The amount of the fixed charge, currently €140, is set by Regulations.
Threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour in a public place

Section 6 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 makes it an offence for any person in a public place to use threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with the intention of causing a breach of the peace. A typical example of this would be where a person, by their words or actions, was likely to cause a fight with the person or persons they were insulting. It would also cover the situation where groups of youths were looking for trouble by their threatening behaviour towards other people. Again, the Garda may confiscate alcohol.
Any person found guilty of this offence can be fined to a maximum of €1,000 and to a person sentence of 3 months maximum.

Failure to comply with the direction of a member of An Garda Siochana
Section 8 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 was designed to create an offence of failure to comply with a direction from a member of the Gardai to desist (or stop) from such conduct in circumstances where the Garda concerned has a reasonable apprehension (or fear) for the safety of persons or property or for the maintenance of the public peace. The section represents a sensible approach where people are acting contrary to section 4, 5 or 6 (above) and the Gardai are of the view that to simply nip in the bud the potential trouble they can direct such people simply “move on” without having to apply the full force of the criminal law through arresting, charging and bringing before the courts such people.

stacexD

Cabaal wrote: »

Under 21 by any chance?
Never been driven to the edge of insanity due to the noise of neighbors?

Don't understand the issues that selling at a loss would cause to your life?

Sell at a loss or spend the rest of your days being annoyed by students.
Whether people like it or not they have the choice of staying there and putting up with it or leaving and dealing with the consequences of that. It's not fair that they got put in the situation that they're in but they're in it now. And I'm not a student anymore.

Potential-Monke

jimbojazz wrote: »

A typical example of this offence would be people shouting late at night having left nightclubs where this would cause serious annoyance to local residents.

That specific quote, along with the rest of the Public Order Act is constrained by the fact the the offence needs to be committed in a public place, which under the Public Order Act is "any place to which a person has access to whether by right or admission, and subject to, or free of, charge". This covers the majority of places on the way home from the pub/club, but it does not cover the house, including the front and back garden. The public place starts at the footpath, not the drive or the grass in front of the house.

200motels

stacexD wrote: »

Giving out about Templars hall is a load of b*llix really.
It's not the colleges fault there is nothing they can do about it.
How is it not the councils fault for giving permission to open a college there?

Templars is around 80% students afaik, it isn't going to change and if the residents can't deal with that then they need to spend their spare time house hunting rather than phoning a radio station.
If you don't like the situation and you can't get anything done about it all you can do is remove yourself from the situation. Sure everyone is entitled to this and that and a good nights sleep but life isn't always fair!

They made a bad investment and if they can't live there any longer the smart thing to do is just take the plunge and sell it to a landlord. At a loss probably but there really is no better time to get out and buy elsewhere while house prices are down.

The people who still live there are the stubborn ones who will always come up with excuses and blame the students for ruining their lives but realistically theres nothing anyone can do about it but themselves.

If everyone sold up and templars became a student village it would be better for everyone. But it won't happen because people would rather complain for the rest of their lives rather than just take the loss and pay an extra few quid a month and get out of there.

And again... whatever people are entitled to and whatever the law or code of conduct is, this is the real world nobody really cares, if they did they would have sorted it by now

Are you for real? Read back of what you wrote and you'll think it was written by a very very sad person.

angry_fox

stacexD wrote: »

Sell at a loss or spend the rest of your days being annoyed by students.
Whether people like it or not they have the choice of staying there and putting up with it or leaving and dealing with the consequences of that. It's not fair that they got put in the situation that they're in but they're in it now. And I'm not a student anymore.

No one should have to put up with loutish behaviour in their own estate especially when most of the people living in templars hall have have a mortgage to pay and a young family to raise.

How can you expect some one to move out of their family home because of some wasters??

jimbojazz

Potential-Monke wrote: »

That specific quote, along with the rest of the Public Order Act is constrained by the fact the the offence needs to be committed in a public place, which under the Public Order Act is "any place to which a person has access to whether by right or admission, and subject to, or free of, charge". This covers the majority of places on the way home from the pub/club, but it does not cover the house, including the front and back garden. The public place starts at the footpath, not the drive or the grass in front of the house.

Correct. But according to reports a lot of the disturbances were happening on the roads outside or leading up to the houses i.e. drunk and disorderly behaviour, there were alegedly girls out cold on the road, bins were being overturned and noise on the street and general nuisance to the residents of the estate. All of which is covered in the Act.

Potential-Monke

And thats all well and good if the Garda sees it. If not, a statement would need to be taken from the person who witnessed what happened, they would have to identify the culprit (more than likely in an id parade), and be willing to go the whole hog to court with it. And apparently very few people are willing to do that.

Alot of this would be alleviated if there were cameras there/more Gardai to patrol.

jimbojazz

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And thats all well and good if the Garda sees it. If not, a statement would need to be taken from the person who witnessed what happened, they would have to identify the culprit (more than likely in an id parade), and be willing to go the whole hog to court with it. And apparently very few people are willing to do that.

Alot of this would be alleviated if there were cameras there/more Gardai to patrol.

Correct again. But the Gardai are aware that this behaviour is happening in this estate on a regular basis. All they have to do is increase patrols in the area for a few weeks and nail the culprits and throw the book at them.I dont think mammy and daddy would be happy at young Johnny or Mary having that on their record or having to pay a heavy fine on top of the costs to keep them in the college. This should act as a deterrent and send out a clear message to those planning on causing anymore bother in the area.

Another deterrent would be to refuse late bar licences during the week, ban what are in effect happy hours - which are banned under the intoxicating licqour act anyway and for pubs to increase the age limit on weeknights.

ex_infantry man

if i lived there i,d defo be cracking and would be pushed to setting up a vigilante group and end up burning the little ****ers outta it, i start work every morning at half four and on way in to work was goin up ballytruckle and only copped it at last min some stupid little **** stood like a starfish in the middle of the road only for i swerved at last min the stupid little biatch would have been on the bonnet of my car all i say is ****in students

Potential-Monke

From the proverbial horses mouth, it's not that easy to just increase the numbers patrolling the area (something i will happily attempt to explain in PM should you wish). Again, the THRA should request more Gardai in the area on Wednesday nights expecially, and get them to have the Community Policing units there.

The "happy hour" law covers the period of drinking over a "limited time", 2 nights a week wouldn't be considered that i reckon! Would be good if it did though...

jimbojazz

Potential-Monke wrote: »

From the proverbial horses mouth, it's not that easy to just increase the numbers patrolling the area (something i will happily attempt to explain in PM should you wish). Again, the THRA should request more Gardai in the area on Wednesday nights expecially, and get them to have the Community Policing units there.

The "happy hour" law covers the period of drinking over a "limited time", 2 nights a week wouldn't be considered that i reckon! Would be good if it did though...

Interesting the amount of red tape and procedure involved.....

Something that I was wondering is whether there is anything in the fire regs that limits the amount of people that can congregate in these houses at any one time given the nature of the accommodation

longshanks

Give me whiskey, a bag of anger and a hurley soaked in salty water. Problem solved.

deisedave

cataclysm wrote: »

this is the main thing I saw. How can the college stop this?
People go out and get drunk, have you seen a Saturday night during the summer? It was worse half the time but no one really piped up because it was them.
Now that students are back they get to play the blame game.

The night club's encourage this and the Gardai on a Wednesday night are the worse.
Yes there like three of them but all they do is stand by the Kebab place and watch. They wont try to do anything because they cba

The Union tried to do something last year and that made the flame war even worse.

I live on Manor Street and there are people in Harvey's at the moment, it is a Saturday night and there is no trouble or shouting what so ever. On a Wednesday night I can not even stay in my sitting room past half 10 it is so loud. The majority of students are not even mature enough to drink, the root cause of all the problems is alcohol but no one seems to give out.

I think all the students should have to sign a code of conduct form when signing up for their course, The weekends there is always lots around and there is very rarely any trouble around what so ever. It is always Wednesday night that my car was damaged, bins robbed or thrown over, door attempted to be kicked in ( I have reinforced door and 3 bolts), etc..

There is an old woman who lived on Manor street all her life she is about 80 and she has had to replace her wing mirrors 18 times in the past 3 years. I like to have a drink and have fun but people have lost respect for other peoples siht. :mad:

cataclysm

jimbojazz wrote: »

Think you're missing the point of the thread there.

Yes, people go out on Saturday night all year round not just during the summer but the majority go home after the pubs / nightclubs. They dont continue it on in housing estates till the small hours of the morning - that is where the problem lies.

Also how often do you hear of the Saturday night crowd kicking peoples doors in or overturning bins in town- very rarely yet this seems to be a regular occurence on a Wednesday night.

This made me laugh

Its heard very often, you see worse things on a Saturday night then you do on a student night.

Its not like they stand on the streets drinking for the laugh.
Their walking home from the nightclubs.
I've been to templars hall after a night out everyone is JUST going home. They might be walking and drinking but its not like their having a session out on the street.

People just like to blame students and WIT for everything because they can.
Cant wait when it gets University then we'll see the forums fly

cataclysm

deisedave wrote: »

I live on Manor Street and there are people in Harvey's at the moment, it is a Saturday night and there is no trouble or shouting what so ever. On a Wednesday night I can not even stay in my sitting room past half 10 it is so loud. The majority of students are not even mature enough to drink, the root cause of all the problems is alcohol but no one seems to give out.

I think all the students should have to sign a code of conduct form when signing up for their course, The weekends there is always lots around and there is very rarely any trouble around what so ever. It is always Wednesday night that my car was damaged, bins robbed or thrown over, door attempted to be kicked in ( I have reinforced door and 3 bolts), etc..

There is an old woman who lived on Manor street all her life she is about 80 and she has had to replace her wing mirrors 18 times in the past 3 years. I like to have a drink and have fun but people have lost respect for other peoples siht. :mad:

Maybe because Harveys is over 21's on a saturday?
Just maybe thats why its quite?

As for the "code of conduct" its a pile of rubbish.
The college cant control what happens outside of college.

Their not babysitters!
They control the dome when there is events in there and they do a good job at that.

So maybe a few dozen out of hundreds start trouble and thats it everyone should suffer?

Another point about Saturdays, I dont think they ever needed to smoke people off the streets on a Wednesday

Doesnt make sense,

abouttobebanned

I was so tempted to point out your many spelling and grammar mistakes, and wonder how much time you actually spend in college...but I won't do that.

A lot of students, I'd say probably 99.8% of them...are good decent people from good decent upbringings. However, something happens to them when they leave the nest and come to the purgatory between school and the real life. They, to put it simply, lose the run of themselves. And I believe that the only way to shake a bit of reality into these people is a 3 strike system. If you're seen to be causing any public order offences - that's a strike. 3 strikes and you're kicked out of college. Goodbye and good luck...until you can come back as a....man they named this so well..."mature student".

They act like they do because they think that's what you're supposed to do as a student. They also do it because, let's face it, there are very few repercussions.

gscully

Cabaal wrote: »

Regardless of the area and what people might label the area are the people are none the less entitled to a decent night sleep, thats not a very unreasonable request in fairness.

Absolutely, and I wasn't suggesting they should settle for any less. I was just making an observation, not a criticism.

THall04 wrote: »

To suggest that the residents of Templars Hall should have known what they were letting themselves in for and should just shut up and get on with things , is very insulting.

Can you point out the part of my post that suggests they should shut up and get on with things? If you're insulted it's because you're making things up and I can't apologise for that. In fact, I said that I was sympathetic.

I remember very well the time that these houses were on sale for so little. I also remember thinking I wouldn't touch them for the reasons I've already outlined. These houses were cheap because of their locality and I would wager that the majority of buyers knew the reasons why they were cheap, but either decided to take a chance based on the price, or because they couldn't afford to go elsewhere. My observation is purely that the buyers probably knew at the time that there was a good chance of disharmony at some stage. It doesn't mean they should have to put up with it though, and I wasn't suggesting they should.

Again, I'm not saying 'tough sh*t' to them. I am totally sympathetic as I've witnessed the antics of students in Lismore Park and where I live now with two young kids. It can be a bloody nightmare and I hope they get an end to it soon, but I wouldn't bet on it, sadly.

old gregg

I believe calerbass had it right a few pages back. Make it a problem for the landlord. If tennants are disturbing your sleep/peace then you should start to disturb the sleep/peace of the landlord involved. Get them to deal with their tennants and if they don't then the courts will likely judge in your favour.

No landlord likes to be woken repeatedly at 2, 3, 4, 5 in the morning with complaints about their tennants. A landlord wants easy money and my experience is that a landlord will evict pretty smartly if their own sleep is being disturbed.

ziedth

This is exactly it. I was at a house party many years ago and the cops turned up but the students who were renting the house pretty much just waved them off and said they'd keep it down but started it up again once they left. Anyway, half 3 in the morning the rather tough lookig landlord banged on the door and said if everyone wasn't kicked out now that they'd be out on their ear. That's the only way to deal with it.

ROCKMAN

cataclysm wrote: »

This made me laugh

Its heard very often, you see worse things on a Saturday night then you do on a student night.

Its not like they stand on the streets drinking for the laugh.
Their walking home from the nightclubs.

I've been to templars hall after a night out everyone is JUST going home. They might be walking and drinking but its not like their having a session out on the street.

People just like to blame students and WIT for everything because they can.
Cant wait when it gets University then we'll see the forums fly

OK alot maybe only making their way home and thats fine with me , As long they can/are doing it without knocking over bins ,trying to kicking in doors or damaging cars ....

On the targetting landlords etc would seem to be the best way to try tackle the situation IMO ,

Would like to see the landlords or letting agents try employ a fine system ,ie. one of the smaller student blocks in town was charging the cost of any security house calls to the tenants , Would make the party houses think twice if you start hitting them in the pockets ...At the very least the extra cash layouts might make mammy or daddy ask questions

Potential-Monke

I think constant "reminding" of the landlord would work well. He'll start to get annoyed by you ringing him at (stupid)AM letting him know that they're at it again.

I've an email sent to Threshold to see what rights a house owner has in relation to getting information of the landlord of the house next door. Whatever i get back i''ll post here.

longshanks

If you can get the landlords number try get him to supply you with the numbers of the parents of the students. They're not going to appreciate 3am phone calls telling them their kids are running wild, and they probably pay the rent.

dashboard_hula

^^What he said.

I'm a student at WIT ("mature" so I am) and as another poster said, I cannot afford to scratch myself, never mind get buckled every Wednesday/Thursday night. I do know however that when I was a teenager, a very clever person rang my mother to have my loud, pissed, lairy self picked up from a house party and there was absolute murder at home. My parents went mental at me not that I was drinking or at a party, but that I lost the run of myself and it came to the notice of the neighbours.
I genuinely think that a little bit of mortification might do the job where the Guards are unable to, or the SU haven't the power to.

Or I'm just terrified of my Mam and it's all wishful thinking on my part.

Sully

I know of a chap who was up before the disciplinary board for his drunken behavior outside of college grounds. Urinating in public IIRC, and he got a slap across the wrist from the college. That's what he told me anyway during the time it was happening, so can only go by what I was told.