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Weight watchers....to join, or go it alone?

Flurry

Hi,

Firstly, I hope this is in the correct forum...

I did WW before a few years ago, using the old points system, and it worked really well.

However...a few years and a (fair) few lbs later, and I feel I need to try it again.
I'm just wondering though, is the new Pro Points system a lot better, or should I just use the old info and books I have and use the old points system myself?

How are other people finding the new points system, better or worse? Better results?

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Amtmann

harr wrote: »

I know where you are coming from but people need to start some where and its there own fault if they don't use ww as a stepping stone to learning more about nutrition and what food they put into there body's,i stopped counting points because i did not need to count any more as i knew what foods were good and bad for me.

With the greatest of respect, I think this is where you and misslt are dead wrong. You will learn next to nothing from WW about nutrition. If you're using it as a first step, it's a step to ruin. Take the first step elsewhere. Millions have taken the WW path and it has failed 90% of them.

I was a year counting points while i was tending ww,but i still managed to stay slim and healthy for nearly 3 years without counting points.The main reason i put on weight on was me acting stupid with food and not been able to use the gym.

Genuinely, if you had learned as much about nutrition as you think you did, you would not have become fat again. No disrespect there. The very fact that you seem to think that failure to attend the gym contributed to your weight gain speaks volumes. You cannot outrun a bad diet no matter what you do in the gym. Slimness is made in the kitchen, not the gym.

misslt

Davei141 wrote: »

Its very irritating also knowing the abysmal success rate they always jump out of the WW megathread to recruit in droves yet are never seen on any thread with proper advice.

Hang on there, the OP asked for opinions on whether or not to join WW, hence the title of the thread!

Any why would any of us bother offering advice when all you get is abuse for being on a stupid diet that doesn't work and isn't sustainable and is abysmal etc etc etc?

Anyone who is doing it is happy doing it so how about you get on with your diet and we'll get on with ours?

misslt

Tremelo wrote: »

With the greatest of respect, I think this is where you and misslt are dead wrong. You will learn next to nothing from WW about nutrition. If you're using it as a first step, it's a step to ruin. Take the first step elsewhere. Millions have taken the WW path and it has failed 90% of them.

I don't agree with this.

I myself am learning new ways to cook food and enjoy my food. Where 4 months ago I would have taken a frozen WW meal at 8 points than steak and veg at maybe 10, I'd choose differently now.

As I said I try to get as much value food wise for my points as possible.

I will say that ProPoints are much much better than the old points system, it was calories and fat. ProPoints works on protein, carbs, fat and fibre which if nothing else has got me looking at the NI of something beyond the cals and fat which I never would have done before.

Anyway, I'm done here, I'm happy with the way my diet is at the minute and I'm happy doing weight watchers. If in 3 years I'm one of the 90% that fail, then I'll reconsider, but if it is a mistake then it's my mistake to make.

donegalgirl28

Have you considered joining Slimming World? Now I know it may seem like another gimmick but SW is most definitely not. It's based on healthy eating i.e. you must eat 1/3 fruit or veg with all meals. You can still have a ready meal, chocolates using your daily "syn" aka sins allowance.

I joined it last Jan and have lost nearly 2.5 stone already. I have another 3 or so to go but I reckon I can hit that by the end of December.

I have not deprived myself of anything at all. I'm on this plan for life now and it has completely changed the way I look at food and eat it. I now have to have veg and fruit everyday, I am concious of how food is cooked i.e. not in oil etc...

SW is the only commercial "diet" (I hate calling it a diet cos it's not!) that is endorsed by the NHS in England and encourages healthy eating rather than eating junk but keeping within your points allowance.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/86731.php

http://diet-review.co.uk/slimming_world_diet_review.htm

Those reviews mention Red and Green days, there is a new plan which was out last year called Extra Easy which combines both but I wouldn't worry about it. :smileee

You can go to a group and go to the New Members talk, stay for the class and then decide if you want to join or not. It's entirely up to you and you don't have to be forced into buying branded products

Gracie2112

the programme works if you follow it and you really must follow it if you want results! as my leader always says it all comes down to "how badly do you wanna lose the weight?"

i joined 11weeks ago, and i've lost a stone so far! some weeks are really hard - like easter, christmas, birthdays and going on holidays (the hardest!) get out and walk if no time for gym or exercise ive found that it really helps, just have to commit to it really!

(by the way... if you have books and stuff from the old programme throw them away!!pro points is the new and IMPROVED programme, you just have to follow it!) - also, fruit veg and salad are all ZERO points

Frogdog

Gracie2112 wrote: »

the programme works if you follow it and you really must follow it if you want results! as my leader always says it all comes down to "how badly do you wanna lose the weight?"

i joined 11weeks ago, and i've lost a stone so far! some weeks are really hard - like easter, christmas, birthdays and going on holidays (the hardest!) get out and walk if no time for gym or exercise ive found that it really helps, just have to commit to it really!

(by the way... if you have books and stuff from the old programme throw them away!!pro points is the new and IMPROVED programme, you just have to follow it!) - also, fruit veg and salad are all ZERO points

Can I ask a question on this?

If I eat 3,000 calories of fruit, veg and salad every day, but only burn 2,500 calories every day, I'm guessing that because they're all "ZERO points", that I'll still lose weight?

Is that what Weight Watchers teaches?

Amtmann

I've wondered about that too. I mean, I can definitely see the logic: if you have heaps and heaps of veg with your dinner and therefore eat less calorie dense foods, you're getting a full feeling from the bulkiness of the veg plus plenty of micronutrients. This is a very good thing. Likewise, if you're having a pear rather than a milky way bar as a snack, this is also good.

On the other hand, if someone is eating 5 bananas and a full carton of grapes per day, well then that's an extra 850 calories right there that will stunt your fat loss. I don't know, but I'd imagine there have to be more detailed guidelines in the WW manual (or however it disseminates its information).

Gracie2112

no no, you have a daily pro point allowance of 29, for example you can have 6 points for breakfast, 8 for lunch and 14-15 for dinner, so those numbers can be used by everything else, you have to use your full 29 points - if for example you only use 20 one day you can't carry the 9 extra over the following day, if you don't use them, you lose them! you also get an extra 49 weekly pro points, you can save them and use them all at the weekend or have an extra 7 each day, whichever way you want to work it.

fruit and veg being zero points is ideal for snacking, you cant eat until you are full and don't feel guilty (or bloated) having said that you can't just fill up on fruit for the day, if you were to eat 10 pieces of fruit its hardly good for you as there would be a fair amount of sugar! so fruit is zero, but not exactly "free". making your own vegetable soup is also a great idea, if you are going out for dinner that evening and want a lunch that will fill you up that you know is not going to waste all your points!

i have found that im never hungry on this programme, whereas with the old programme i was struggling to keep within my points and still feeling as though i was starving, but with the fruit and veg being zero, using your 29 points for actual meals is very easy, and sometimes there are some left over for chocolate or treats!

boogle

I've dipped in and out of weight watchers a few times over the last 6 years or so. Lose a bit, then put it back on etc etc. I ditched it altogether about a year and a half ago, lost 30 lbs through sensible healthy eating (3 meals a day, no snacks works for me)

My problem with WW is this:
You have this points allownce for the day. You scrimp and eat stingily during some days so you can use your points eating rubbish.
My biggest problem though, is eating in the evening. I had bad habits of nibbling toast and crap at around 9 or 10 at night. WW didn't address this, and in fact even encouraged it. If I had points left over after my dinner (usually did), then we're told you have to eat your points. So at night I'd be stalking the cupboards going "Oooh I have points left, what can I eat?". Wasn't even hungry! Now that can be controlled as long as you're sticking to your points allowance strictly, but when you "fall off the WW wagon" and stop counting points, you've now cultivated this habit of eating at night.

This habit was the first thing I broke when I started losing weight successfully. I'm keeping the weight off because I've kicked bad eating habits. That's just my experience with WW anyway.

Monife

Frogdog wrote: »

Can I ask a question on this?

If I eat 3,000 calories of fruit, veg and salad every day, but only burn 2,500 calories every day, I'm guessing that because they're all "ZERO points", that I'll still lose weight?

Is that what Weight Watchers teaches?

No. WW says you should stop eating fruit (and any other type of food) when you are satisfied. They say you should and can eat the recommended 5-8 portions of fruit and veg a day. They say if you go over that amount of fruit in a day you should then count in your points allowance.

Frogdog

Monife wrote: »

No. WW says you should stop eating fruit (and any other type of food) when you are satisfied. They say you should and can eat the recommended 5-8 portions of fruit and veg a day. They say if you go over that amount of fruit in a day you should then count in your points allowance.

Thanks for your answer Monife. but what I'm getting at is this:

What if I ate 5-8 bananas (which are quite calorie dense for fruit and for their size) for example, that could be quite a lot of calories (at least 500+ to 800+), but 0 points???

I don't understand their logic that some foods are the same number of points cost as others (in this case 0 points), despite there being huge differences in the calorie content. And at the end of the day, the person is trying to lose weight so calories should be the primary consideration, in my opinion.

Monife

Frogdog wrote: »

Thanks for your answer Monife. but what I'm getting at is this:

What if I ate 5-8 bananas (which are quite calorie dense for fruit and for their size) for example, that could be quite a lot of calories (at least 500+ to 800+), but 0 points???

I don't understand their logic that some foods are the same number of points cost as others (in this case 0 points), despite there being huge differences in the calorie content. And at the end of the day, the person is trying to lose weight so calories should be the primary consideration, in my opinion.

You have to use your common sense. All us "weightwatchers" know we shouldn't eat a hape of banana's. They were high in points on the old plan. The leaders also say you shouldn't eat loads of them and you should have a wide variety of different fruit and veg.

Jackie307133

So i had my weigh in this morning and lost 1lb

thats 6.5lbs in 3 weeks which for me is a great achievement. Am really enjoying the new pro points system having previously done the old points system. Have lost weight each week since starting and have used some but not all my weekly points in that time. have to say i'd be so lost without my electronic pointer. Kept getting the wrong points when i tried to use the wheel

. Found this site yest and have been reading it from when it started, i love how much support people give and how honest people are with there comments. Looking forward to reading more and getting motivation from everyones hard work

time42play

Frogdog wrote: »

I don't understand their logic that some foods are the same number of points cost as others (in this case 0 points), despite there being huge differences in the calorie content. And at the end of the day, the person is trying to lose weight so calories should be the primary consideration, in my opinion.

It took me decades to figure it out, but I *finally* learned that calories are more important than some arbitrary "points" formula.

I've lost to my goal weight FIVE times on WW over the last 30 years. Obviously put back everything I'd lost plus more every single time. They have a sort-of maintenance where you add points week by week and stop when your weight stabilises, and that is your maintenance points. BUT it assumes you're counting points for the rest of your life!! The last couple of times I got to goal, I wasn't even given the literature to work out the maintenance points, which I thought was incredibly mean considering the points had changed.

Once upon a time I was even a WW leader, and that was the longest stretch of time I ever maintained at my goal (a little over 3 years). It was a huge struggle and I was constantly hungry. We preached high carb, low fat and while I know it works for some people I've finally learned that I'm not one of them. Apparently it's now slightly different but I've given them way too much money over the years to fall for it again.

The last time I did WW, I started to calculate points using ONLY the calorie value of a food and ignoring the fat. It was only their mechanism to force you to eat low-fat, or penalise you for choosing something that wasn't, and made no difference to losing weight. It was a short step from there to ignoring WW points and using calories alone.

I love my Atkins/paleo sort-of diet, and feel like I can easily eat this way forever. I am never hungry, though I don't eat a lot of calories, and am not obsessed with food like I was on WW. I can still remember spending most of my days looking at food and calculating what else I could have that day - I never think about food until doing groceries or when it's time to eat now.

WW can help you lose weight, in the end it does restrict calories if you do it properly, and if you get a good leader they can be very motivating (unlike one woman in Raheny years ago who was a miserable bitch and put me off ever going back there). But as so many others have pointed out, maintaining is really the name of the game and based on my past experiences I don't think WW is much help in that.

Birdie086

time42play wrote: »

It took me decades to figure it out, but I *finally* learned that calories are more important than some arbitrary "points" formula.

I've lost to my goal weight FIVE times on WW over the last 30 years. Obviously put back everything I'd lost plus more every single time. They have a sort-of maintenance where you add points week by week and stop when your weight stabilises, and that is your maintenance points. BUT it assumes you're counting points for the rest of your life!! The last couple of times I got to goal, I wasn't even given the literature to work out the maintenance points, which I thought was incredibly mean considering the points had changed.

Once upon a time I was even a WW leader, and that was the longest stretch of time I ever maintained at my goal (a little over 3 years). It was a huge struggle and I was constantly hungry. We preached high carb, low fat and while I know it works for some people I've finally learned that I'm not one of them. Apparently it's now slightly different but I've given them way too much money over the years to fall for it again.

The last time I did WW, I started to calculate points using ONLY the calorie value of a food and ignoring the fat. It was only their mechanism to force you to eat low-fat, or penalise you for choosing something that wasn't, and made no difference to losing weight. It was a short step from there to ignoring WW points and using calories alone.

I love my Atkins/paleo sort-of diet, and feel like I can easily eat this way forever. I am never hungry, though I don't eat a lot of calories, and am not obsessed with food like I was on WW. I can still remember spending most of my days looking at food and calculating what else I could have that day - I never think about food until doing groceries or when it's time to eat now.

WW can help you lose weight, in the end it does restrict calories if you do it properly, and if you get a good leader they can be very motivating (unlike one woman in Raheny years ago who was a miserable bitch and put me off ever going back there). But as so many others have pointed out, maintaining is really the name of the game and based on my past experiences I don't think WW is much help in that.

In Januaury this year I embarked on what will be my second cylce of ww, however from reading the forums the around here and other info, I have decided to ditch the ww, for once and for all and educate myself regarding food. I am embracing clean eating and have given myself a year if not more to lose the wieght slowly but most importantly keep it off!! I also rejoined the gym and on tuesday I am meeting with one the lady instuctors who actually seems to know what she is talking about re a decent weight training program.
I am looking forward to the rest of my life and the process of actually learning about food and excerise, the word diet will never feature in my house again.

shadowcomplex

Tremelo wrote: »

That sounds like a plan

Just remember, the body can typically only metabolise 30g of protein per meal. So eating more than this per meal is ineffectual. The key thing is fat. Fat + protein is a great combination. You'll get both from beef, chicken, pork, lamb, oily fish, nuts, flax, butter, and seeds. Once you avoid processed food and low fat food*, and once you derive your carbs from lots of fruit and veg, you're well on the road to long-term success and well-being.

*low fat food is just full of sugar which creates an insulin spike in your body causing you store fat and crave even more sugar.

This is not true, you say the body as if every persons body is the same, a 14 stone man will be able to metabolise more protein per meal then say a 9 stone women

Amtmann

shadowcomplex wrote: »

This is not true, you say the body as if every persons body is the same, a 14 stone man will be able to metabolise more protein per meal then say a 9 stone women

It is sometimes necessary to speak in generalisations (which is why the RDA is 2,500 calories, though of course this varies wildly). Regardless, the vast majority of people would struggle to metabolise much more than 30g per sitting. If you consume 100g of protein in one sitting for muscle growth purposes, most of it gets wasted or is used for purposes other than muscle growth.

aspie mum

The new pro points system is based on new research in diet and nutrition and is based on how the body breaks down food and procees it..the concept behind free fruit is to promote healther eating in the long term as people will reach for a 0PP piece of fruit rather then a small chocolate bar as was the case on the old programme ..... as for thosse who put there weight back on it simply means you ate to much after you lost your weight WW allows for free Weigh ins for life to help you maintain your loss....

if you lose you weight and go back to your old ways you will put weight up a change of lifestyle is what is required and pro points allows for this as did points and yes if you have to coun t for ever thats what you have to do my sister in law lost her weigh about 20 years ago and has kept it off and enjoys her food both sweet and savoury she just learnt with WW to control her portions and what she can eat and stay slim.

menoscemo

aspie mum wrote: »

The new pro points system is based on new research in diet and nutrition and is based on how the body breaks down food and procees it..

:rolleyes:
Do you seriously actually believe that?

kaz_corcoran

I've been trying to lose weight since the start of January, and did think of doing WW but the new pro points plan turned me off it. So I joined the local Unislim class, which is half based on low GI / mainly nutrition. There's allowances for treats, but not to blow it all in one go which I feel is a big drawback of the new WW plan. I'm on a food diary forum (originally based on here but has been moved) and a lot of the girls found the new WW plan really hard to lose weight, especially if they hadn't substantial amounts to lose. Anyway, following the Unislim plan I've managed to lose 34 lbs in 17 weeks, and being honest that's with very little exercise-haven't seen the inside of a gym since I started, so it does genuinely work. Hope yours goes well!

Amtmann

Does WW reward low fat eating out of curiosity?

Monife

Tremelo wrote: »

Does WW reward low fat eating out of curiosity?

Couldn't be arsed reading all that article. But yes, WW preaches low fat. Obviously, the higher carbs/sugar or fat content, the higher the points. It is a calorie controlled eating plan. Although some leaders, including my own, says it is good to have "normal" foods (as in not the low fat version) but in small amounts. And they definitely preach that fresh food is better than processed and that you should try your best to make your own sauces, dressings etc with fresh ingredients.

Anyone with a bit of common sense would know to read the labels on foods and know that one with a long, dodgy looking ingredient list is not going to be good for you.

El_Dangeroso

Monife wrote: »

Anyone with a bit of common sense would know to read the labels on foods and know that one with a long, dodgy looking ingredient list is not going to be good for you.

And yet they sell this type of food with their branding and endorsement. That's a big conflict of interest.

boomtown84

Tremelo wrote: »

It is sometimes necessary to speak in generalisations (which is why the RDA is 2,500 calories, though of course this varies wildly). Regardless, the vast majority of people would struggle to metabolise much more than 30g per sitting. If you consume 100g of protein in one sitting for muscle growth purposes, most of it gets wasted or is used for purposes other than muscle growth.

this is just not true.

ash23

I joined WW last week. Was on it when my daughter was born and I didn't like it because of some of the points mentioned above.
Anyway, the new system is a lot better than the old one, and the main reason I joined.
The first thing we were told was that while fruit is zero points, it is only be be eaten in moderation, as a way of bulking meals up and avoiding hunger. i.e. don't pull the p1ss.

Protein is very important on the new system which I like as it was nearly to be avoided on the old points system.

It might not be to everyones taste or liking but I like it and am actually struggling to use all my points. It's encouraging me to think about what I eat and not mindlessly eat whatever I want. And yes, I could absolutely do it alone but for me, I need the structure, encouragement and motivation which I get from the meetings.
Not for everyone, I agree. but a lot of misconception about the new plan. it may have been true of the old plan but the new one is a lot different.

HardyEustace

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

You can still have a ready meal, chocolates using your daily "syn" aka sins allowance.

I've a real problem though with "diets" or plans or what ever you want to call them which describe foods as sinful or forbidden.

It's just wrapping even more nonsense and myth around a very emotive and difficult subject (for some).

Food has nutritional values. Depending on your aims for your lifestyle, your nutritional needs and just-what-you-feel-like-that-day then it may or may not suit your purpose at that time. It's up to you to decide that.

Labelling something bad or rubbish (within reason, transfats are bad but "bad for you" rather than this "evil-m'wah-ha-ha-ha" label) is rather simplistic and juvenille.

donegalgirl28

Why is it "juvenile"? For some people they like to be told this so they can stay away from the bad options. SW does take into account the ready meals does have meat, potatoes which are healthy but it's the way it's preserved, cooked that gives it the bad syn value.

For me, I've tried to lose weight on my own for the past 3 years but I keep losing motivation. Since I joined Slimming World on the 11th Jan (exactly 4 months ago now) I've lost over 2.5stone. It's taught me how to control my food by porportions. I now eat at least 1/3 of my plate with veg or fruit with every meal. I watch how I cook it now, instead of frying I use the grill etc.... I like having the syns, it keeps me in control of what I eat.

I can eat 4 packets of Snax a day on this plan and still lose weight. SW has been around for 40 plus years and is used by the NHS in England.

El_Dangeroso

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

I can eat 4 packets of Snax a day on this plan and still lose weight.

This is the problem with weight watchers and slimming world summed up in one sentence.

Not to single you out personally. Well done on losing the weight and I wish you all the success in the future but having this idea that you can eat non-food every day and it's ok is just not the road to long term weight control.

Basically if you can come back to me in 5 years having maintained your 2.5 stone loss, I'll believe that you are a success of that program. But at the moment you have a less than half a percent chance.

I totally get the support and accountability they offer but the food they recommend is likely to leave you deficient in important nutrients. No point being a thin 60 year old if your bones are falling apart.

pecker1992

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

I can eat 4 packets of Snax a day on this plan and still lose weight. SW has been around for 40 plus years and is used by the NHS in England.

The fact that you just said ''i can eat 4 packets of snax a day'' is shocking.....if you dont eat nutritious food and think some gimmick like sw or ww is going to help you in the long run you are very much mistaken..how do you think these companies make money???? because there plans dont work!!!! all their foods are packed with carbs & marketed as ''low fat'' when in fact there even worse than their full fat counterparts........people but into this & some realise & break away..others constantly try & fail.....everybody needs to wake up and just realize its an overload of processed foods and lack of education in nutrition (overloading on carbs and/or fat coupled with a lack of excercise that causes weight problems.....and on that matter id also blame the irish ''its not a problem until its too late'' attitude that alot of our population suffer from

...realise these people myself included only give advice on what we know..our methods may be different but out goals are the same so if we can give any tips to anyone we will

......and unlike ww or sw we dont charge...think about that

donegalgirl28

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

This is the problem with weight watchers and slimming world summed up in one sentence.

pecker1992 wrote: »

The fact that you just said ''i can eat 4 packets of snax a day'' is shocking.....if you dont eat nutritious food and think some gimmick like sw or ww is going to help you in the long run you are very much mistaken..how do you think these companies make money???? because there plans dont work!!!! all their foods are packed with carbs & marketed as ''low fat'' when in fact there even worse than their full fat counterparts........

Hang on, do you think that SW have told me I can only eat 4 packet of crisps a day and lose weight. No, that's totally wrong.

You have to have 3 regular meals a day, in these meals you must fill your plate with at least 1/3 of fruit and veg which has all the nutrients. You then can fill the rest of the plate with carbs and protein i.e. pasta, rice, potatoes, meat, chicken, fish.

You can eat freely of these foods but remembering the proportion rule. You are allowed to eat eggs freely aswell.

You are then allowed to have 1 Healthy Extras A and B. Your HEX A is calcium based which is either milk or cheese, can be full fat or low fat whichever you prefer. You then can have your B choice which is your fibre source such as wholemeal bread or porridge. Doesn't matter what brand you buy.

Are you telling me that this isn't nutritious????? :rolleyes:

FYI there are no Slimming World branded foods, they only have cereals bars which they sell in groups only and can be used as your Healthy Extra B.

You can't go through life being completely healthy, you should be allowed some bad stuff, which is where the syns stuff comes into account. The syn value gives you a sense of control. You can enjoy 5 - 15 a day. You don't have to use them, it's entirely up to yourself and it doesn't have to be used on bad food, stuff like white bread, a slice of that is 3 syns. A glass of wine is 8 syns. A packet of Snax is 4 syns so that's what I meant by " I can eat 4 of them a day and still lose weight." BUT only if I have followed the above i.e. eating 3 meals with 1/3 fruit and veg plus eating my fibre and calcium.

You won't lose weight by eating just the syns. That's just ridiculous which is where WW is wrong. I was in WW 3.5 years ago, for 3 weeks, I was told I was allowed 22 points. I could eat whatever I want but keep within my points so basically I could have my packets of crisps every day and lose weight which is not healthy and doesn't work.