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anyone here going to vote sinn féin?

shtemcguire

they have policies that want to help the poor and they are republican which is good

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Tragedy

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Seriously, why do you not ask them yourselves what they are using the expenses money for... I am sending your post to the releveant people and asking them to check it out.. But please remember, people in glass houses should not throw stones... can you name one party that has milked the Dail less than this? Please tell me that you believe FF/FG/Labour havent.... Micheal Martin taking 90k pay-off, Eamonn Gilmours wife getting 500k for a patch of land that is only worth 40-50k, and some FG members in opposition for the last 13 years and still getting ministerial pensions, and seriously, i downloaded the data you sent me the other day (granted, i only review the first link and stopped there, because there were approx 80 TD names on that list and only one of them were a SF member) and i responded back based on the single link ..... do you still have the seconds link? If the second link has more succint data to back up your point, I will do the data analysis on that link also, if you still have it, but please dont send me something like the first link (1 SF member in an 80 name list... please).

Excuse me, you said you'd be protesting outside SF HQ if I could prove the expenses.

I did prove it, I linked you to both the excel sheet listing all TDs and to the blog post where it originated(they requested it under FOI).

Your excuse to dismiss it was to lie and state that it only had 1 SF TD in it, despite it having all 4 SF TD's, and now your new excuse is that no other parties are any better?

What happened to:

Pleae show us where you got this information from... if you cant show it/prove it, then i am guessing you are one of the FF/FG/Labour party members in here to spread lies and disinformation... if you can prove it, i promise you i will stand outside the SF offices and demonstrate against them. ie put up or shut up

Cal_Egle

Tragedy wrote: »

Cal, seriously, read some articles before you tout your opinions as fact. Iceland is considered to be in real danger of entering an economic depression(not recession, depression). It's gdp has fallen by over 40% since 2007 and it's currency is now worth around 25-30% what it once was.

Why do you say 1.7% growth in Q3 2010 alone? Is that because the other quarters are singularly unimpressive?

Also, their unemployment rate seems to be growing not getting smaller.

Are you arguing about the current unemployment rate versus ours? Their rate of unemployment is half of ours... come on....
Q3 was not the only quarter they had growth, but granted they had quarters where they had negative growth, but overall in 2010, they had growth and based on the last 2 quarters in 2010, the signs are good that they are coming out the their crises.... Ireland on the other hand, has been dealing with its crises for 2 years, (and we were warned many times before that about where we were heading, remember Berties, go commit suicide remark to any economist that said we were facing into a serious crises in 2007). Are we any closer to resolution? Do you really think we are there now? The establsihed parties had their chance. Now is the time to put a party in there that will follow the best policies for this country, not play political football with the economy (Did you see yesterdays joke on the Irish news, FF saying that they will hold off on putting 10-15 billion more into the banks until after the election, FG saying they wont put the 15 billion in, if they are in power, and yet we know as soon as they are elected, they will give the banks whatever they want)

Cal_Egle

Tragedy wrote: »

Excuse me, you said you'd be protesting outside SF HQ if I could prove the expenses.

I did prove it, I linked you to both the excel sheet listing all TDs and to the blog post where it originated(they requested it under FOI).

Your excuse to dismiss it was to lie and state that it only had 1 SF TD in it, despite it having all 4 SF TD's, and now your new excuse is that no other parties are any better?

What happened to:
?

Again, i went through the link you sent, why do you keep this up? There was only one SF name on that list... unless you sent me the wrong link... please resend it and i will revalidate... otherwise stop with the personal remarks, it is not helping you, me, or anyone else on this site. I am not a Liar !!!! I am open to ideas, unlike some people

Tragedy

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Are you arguing about the current unemployment rate versus ours? Their rate of unemployment is half of ours... come on....

Yes I am, unlike you I bothered to look up their historical unemployment rate.
In less than 3 years they've gone from under 1% unemployment to around 8%. That's eightfold.

Ireland's has less than tripled.

Do you see the difference?

Q3 was not the only quarter they had growth, but granted they had quarters where they had negative growth, but overall in 2010, they had growth and based on the last 2 quarters in 2010, the signs are good that they are coming out the their crises....

No the signs are not good. Icelandic GDP fell an estimated 3.4% in 2010(http://www.theodora.com/wfbcurrent/iceland/iceland_economy.html)

Ireland on the other hand, has been dealing with its crises for 2 years, (and we were warned many times before that about where we were heading, remember Berties, go commit suicide remark to any economist that said we were facing into a serious crises in 2007). Are we any closer to resolution? Do you really think we are there now?

Judging by every metric, we've been dealing with the crisis better than Iceland.

Anything else you want me to rubbish?

Cal_Egle wrote: »

Again, i went through the link you sent, why do you keep this up? There was only one SF name on that list... unless you sent me the wrong link... please resend it and i will revalidate... otherwise stop with the personal remarks, it is not helping you, me, or anyone else on this site. I am not a Liar !!!! I am open to ideas, unlike some people

I posted two links, one link showed every TDs expenses claims in 2008, one showed them in total 2005-2008 as well per year 2005-2008.
You claimed all either link showed was a list of 80 TDs with 1 SF TD in it.
That's a lie.

exspes

wow, i love reading a thread and seeing that it has descended into a pointless rabble about things vaguely on topic in order to 1up someone you've never met who ultimately doesn't give a ****.

if sinn fein make it into government i will cry, then leave the country, then cry some more that i'm from a nation of morons (that's if sinn fein get elected that is)

b4boxer

SF seem to have a big election machine on the ground here in Longford Westmeath. Last Saturday the were all over Longford Town.

In Athlone its all you hear , SF, Hogan, SF, Hogan.

It seems that SF and Boxer Moran will be the dark horses of this election.

I wont br voting Sinn Fein, I will vote 1 Boxer, 2 Hogan !!!

Eliot Rosewater

This discussion is getting personalised and aggravating. Think before you post - make sure what you're posting isn't flaming and deals with issues instead of Boards.ie personalities.

Cal_Egle banned for a week for personalising the debate, back seat modding and trolling behavior.

/mod.

caseyann

exspes wrote: »

wow, i love reading a thread and seeing that it has descended into a pointless rabble about things vaguely on topic in order to 1up someone you've never met who ultimately doesn't give a ****.

if sinn fein make it into government i will cry, then leave the country, then cry some more that i'm from a nation of morons (that's if sinn fein get elected that is)

As opposed to the people who voted in Fianna fail,pd allowance being in government and Fianna Gael,who not only sat back and watched it happen but couldn't see the wood for the trees because they made money out of it?
I can see why you wouldn't want Sinn Féin in government and in control.Because they do not wish to penalize the minimum wage workers and social welfare recipients .Instead they want to ensure they get work and better conditions and rights and be counted rather then have to pay for stuff that was not of their making and balance in the taxs.And wish to protect our children's future .Unlike Fianna fail and FG and labour.

Pete_Cavan

caseyann wrote: »

As opposed to the people who voted in Fianna fail,pd allowance being in government and Fianna Gael,who not only sat back and watched it happen but couldn't see the wood for the trees because they made money out of it?

Please provide examples of what SF did, over and above what the other parties did, which you do not consider sitting back and watching it happen.

Zubeneschamali

Cal_Egle wrote: »

There was only one SF name on that list...

Ferris, O'Caolain, Snodaigh and Morgan are all listed at both links given earlier in this post. From the second link, here are SF TD's total salary plus expenses from 2005-2008:

€645,367.41 Martin Ferris
€619,649.30 Caoimhghin O Caolain
€536,489.96 Aengus O'Snodaigh
€592,372.12 Arthur Morgan

Xclusiv Barber

Every1 take a breath and address the post not the poster ey guys and gals? Kind of puts it all into perspective, take a moment, its just been confirmed six dead in a plane crash in cork which was landing en route from belfast.

cniriain

If Sinn Fein default on Sovereign loan then they HAVE MY VOTE.
the writing is on the wall -
check out Tir na Saor .com
FIS NUA

And if you have the liathroidi for it check out
Zeitgeist the movie

I believe in Jesus but the info on Central Bank is eye opener.

We are handing over our heads on a plate...

caseyann

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Please provide examples of what SF did, over and above what the other parties did, which you do not consider sitting back and watching it happen.

They spoke out time and time again,warning it was going to happen they also went to the media with it.While the others sat back and said oh if Fianna fail say its not so then its not so. They only got more vocal when they realized it wasnt going away and couldn't hide it anymore.And that is to save their own skins.
How long have Sinn Féin been calling on the government to investigate and to prove their claims of no issue with banks and money? How long did it take for the so called government running this country to come clean?
Sinn Féin saw what was happening and wouldn't let it go.And you say they did nothing? If not for them all Irish who are Fianna fail supporters and and greens supporters etc.. would have sat back and let them make the decisions for you .
I am saying you because i haven't trusted Fianna fail for more than a decade.

caseyann

cniriain wrote: »

If Sinn Fein default on Sovereign loan then they HAVE MY VOTE.
the writing is on the wall -
check out Tir na Saor .com
FIS NUA

And if you have the liathroidi for it check out
Zeitgeist the movie

I believe in Jesus but the info on Central Bank is eye opener.

We are handing over our heads on a plate...

If Ireland couldnt pay what would happen?

Xclusiv Barber

caseyann wrote: »

If Ireland couldnt pay what would happen?

then'll we'll be iceland version 2.0 (i.e. Go it alone). Plus We'd have a zero credit rating. One could argue that we say thats fine, fu<k the rating, fu(k the eu the US, asia etc etc cos were going it alone and were bringing back the punt too ( thread idea....should we ever have ditched the punt?). Thats one way. Only thing is, thats an awful lot of fu<king bridges to burn isn't it? Our mess is not black and white, more like a million varying shades of grey

Zubeneschamali

Xclusiv Barber wrote: »

then'll we'll be iceland version 2.0 (i.e. Go it alone).

Once again, Iceland had to take an IMF bailout, they did not go it alone.

caseyann

Xclusiv Barber wrote: »

then'll we'll be iceland version 2.0 (i.e. Go it alone). Plus We'd have a zero credit rating. One could argue that we say thats fine, fu<k the rating, fu(k the eu the US, asia etc etc cos were going it alone and were bringing back the punt too ( thread idea....should we ever have ditched the punt?). Thats one way. Only thing is, thats an awful lot of fu<king bridges to burn isn't it? Our mess is not black and white, more like a million varying shades of grey

Have you read their manifesto?
A new Budget as soon as possible
following the election.
2) Close the deficit over 6 years, not 4. We
would envisage a €3billion adjustment
for the remainder of 2011 (€4.7billion in
a full year), leaving us with a deficit of
€15.7billion in 2012.
3) Restructuring the bank debts, including
burning the bank bondholders in those
banks which are insolvent, including
Anglo Irish Bank. This will ensure tax
raised is spent on Irish public services
– not servicing or paying off the debt
incurred for bailing out the banks.
4)
Initiate a responsible wind-down of
NAMA.
5) A €7billion job-creation programme
spread over 3.5 years with the aim of
saving and creating more than 160,000
jobs funded by a once-off transfer from
the National Pension Reserve Fund
and which we would use for a stimulus
instead of transferring its reserves into
the banks

Sounds very plausible and fair to me.Doesnt look like they sinking our ship but more stabilizing it without control from outside.http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/SF_GeneralElectionManifesto2011.pdf

On a side note i miss the punt

The introduction of a 1% Wealth Tax. This
would be an income-linked Wealth Tax
for high-earners levied on their assets
over €1million in value, excluding working
farmland.

I have a funny feeling why other members do not like this one lol.
The introduction of a third tax rate of
48% on individual income in excess of
three times the average industrial wage
(€100,000) per annum.

Xclusiv Barber

Absolutely. I was merely answering the post what if we default.

caseyann

Xclusiv Barber wrote: »

Absolutely. I was merely answering the post what if we default.

I mean what if we stay with them and the economy doesnt pick up and we keep losing? I am asking you what will happen?Please explain because i dont understand.Thanks

Collegebhoy

caseyann wrote: »

Have you read their manifesto?
A new Budget as soon as possible
following the election.
2) Close the deficit over 6 years, not 4. We
would envisage a €3billion adjustment
for the remainder of 2011 (€4.7billion in
a full year), leaving us with a deficit of
€15.7billion in 2012.
3) Restructuring the bank debts, including
burning the bank bondholders in those
banks which are insolvent, including
Anglo Irish Bank. This will ensure tax
raised is spent on Irish public services
– not servicing or paying off the debt
incurred for bailing out the banks.
4)
Initiate a responsible wind-down of
NAMA.
5) A €7billion job-creation programme
spread over 3.5 years with the aim of
saving and creating more than 160,000
jobs funded by a once-off transfer from
the National Pension Reserve Fund
and which we would use for a stimulus
instead of transferring its reserves into
the banks

Sounds very plausible and fair to me.Doesnt look like they sinking our ship but more stabilizing it without control from outside.http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/SF_GeneralElectionManifesto2011.pdf

On a side note i miss the punt

Works for me

Zubeneschamali

caseyann wrote: »

Sounds very plausible and fair to me.

I'm not so sure how the Leprechauns will feel about the Government nationalizing their Fairy Gold to pay for all of this.

Pete_Cavan

caseyann wrote: »

Have you read their manifesto?
A new Budget as soon as possible
following the election.
2) Close the deficit over 6 years, not 4. We would envisage a €3billion adjustment for the remainder of 2011 (€4.7billion in a full year), leaving us with a deficit of €15.7billion in 2012.
3) Restructuring the bank debts, including burning the bank bondholders in those banks which are insolvent, including Anglo Irish Bank. This will ensure tax
raised is spent on Irish public services – not servicing or paying off the debt incurred for bailing out the banks.
4) Initiate a responsible wind-down of NAMA.
5) A €7billion job-creation programme spread over 3.5 years with the aim of saving and creating more than 160,000 jobs funded by a once-off transfer from the National Pension Reserve Fund and which we would use for a stimulus instead of transferring its reserves into the banks

Sounds very plausible and fair to me.Doesnt look like they sinking our ship but more stabilizing it without control from outside.http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/SF_GeneralElectionManifesto2011.pdf

On a side note i miss the punt

The introduction of a 1% Wealth Tax. This would be an income-linked Wealth Tax for high-earners levied on their assets over €1million in value, excluding working farmland.

I have a funny feeling why other members do not like this one lol.
The introduction of a third tax rate of 48% on individual income in excess of three times the average industrial wage (€100,000) per annum.

The bit in bold, is that the same National Pension Reserve Fund that SF want to use to pay our budget deficit this year?

Obviously it is our only NPRF and it is just short of covering this years deficit if they implement point 2 above so SFs plan is pure crap, based on spending the same money twice

[Deleted User]

caseyann wrote: »

Have you read their manifesto?
A new Budget as soon as possible
following the election.
2) Close the deficit over 6 years, not 4. We
would envisage a €3billion adjustment
for the remainder of 2011 (€4.7billion in
a full year), leaving us with a deficit of
€15.7billion in 2012.
3) Restructuring the bank debts, including
burning the bank bondholders in those
banks which are insolvent, including
Anglo Irish Bank. This will ensure tax
raised is spent on Irish public services
– not servicing or paying off the debt
incurred for bailing out the banks.
4)
Initiate a responsible wind-down of
NAMA.
5) A €7billion job-creation programme
spread over 3.5 years with the aim of
saving and creating more than 160,000
jobs funded by a once-off transfer from
the National Pension Reserve Fund
and which we would use for a stimulus
instead of transferring its reserves into
the banks

Sounds very plausible and fair to me.Doesnt look like they sinking our ship but more stabilizing it without control from outside.http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/SF_GeneralElectionManifesto2011.pdf

On a side note i miss the punt

The introduction of a 1% Wealth Tax. This
would be an income-linked Wealth Tax
for high-earners levied on their assets
over €1million in value, excluding working
farmland.

I have a funny feeling why other members do not like this one lol.
The introduction of a third tax rate of
48% on individual income in excess of
three times the average industrial wage
(€100,000) per annum.

And once the nprs is raided the €19 billion comes from where now?
They're raising a couple of billion on extra tax only and reversing the cuts.
They still have to borrow and rise the national debt year by year running the country as if nothing has happened and we still have 2007 national income.
That won't be allowed as the bond markets won't give it.
Incidently also how many job losses do they envisage from the merger of aib and boi?
The whole thing is a 1 legged stool.

takun

caseyann wrote: »

I mean what if we stay with them and the economy doesnt pick up and we keep losing? I am asking you what will happen?Please explain because i dont understand.Thanks

Probably we renegotiate and get more - if we are refused, well, I am not sure anyone knows the answer to that, but it would not be good.

The problem with Sinn Fein's policy is not that it is up against wonderful plans with certain outcomes. It's simply that is gives no time for recovery.

In the mess we are in, or whatever somewhat lesser renegotiated mess a new government manages to obtain, we have years to get back to some kind of even keel, and we have a government that HAS to focus on getting out of it and not go off on a tangent, because the IMF and the ECB are at our backs watching the situation pretty much daily.

They have access to money we simply cannot get access to at the moment, so we are able to function as a country with their help. That is not in any sense a happy situation, but it's a reality.

The problem (or one of them) with the Sinn Fein plan is that it is heavily dependant on the (finite) money in the Pension Reserve Fund, both to pay for current spending and to act as a stimulus. This money WILL run out within a year. Even Sinn Fein admit that. That is a very short time. There would be nobody at out backs or interested in being at our backs. Almost overnight there would be no money to pay public servants or social welfare. The nationalised backs (which is all of them, pretty much) would have no funds, so everyone, every business, every individual with a bank account would be out of funds that day.

They hope in the plan is that the stimulus of €7 billion has a magical effect within, literally, a couple of months, gets the economy going and suddenly a flood of money starts comes in and it all adds up. That is an enormous leap of faith. Way too big to be credible. Especially if at the same time you are now taxing businesses and high earners and overseas companies at a much higher rate than before, because that will lead to job losses, not job gains.

cniriain

Eddison WE signed nothing. You cannot even argue that we went guarantor on anything. We were SET up for a fall ...it was never even a gamble. It was false. We were manipulated and it was Bad bad business on the part of politicians who know about pushing figures about on paper but have no real experience in business world. Ireland is a business - We declare bankruptcy- Pull out and Re build. Simple as- If you are SOO honourable you would do this for your fellow man not because you are being duped into believing we HAVE to...No we DON'T. We were sold off...
As for credibilty and recovery - We have PLENTY assets - that is why they want in here in first place. ...we have zinc gas to mention a few..New policy now is about GMO TURF TREES ...and we stand back while the plunder and pillage goes on in a very very subtle sinister way...

ianuss

takun wrote: »

They hope in the plan is that the stimulus of €7 billion has a magical effect within, literally, a couple of months, gets the economy going and suddenly a flood of money starts comes in and it all adds up. That is an enormous leap of faith. Way too big to be credible. Especially if at the same time you are now taxing businesses and high earners and overseas companies at a much higher rate than before, because that will lead to job losses, not job gains.

SF's economic policy is akin to shaking a snow-globe and hoping that all the stuff inside settles down again after giving it a good ol' shake. They want to throw NPRF money in the hope that it'll all pan out in the wash. It's actually scary how basic and ill informed their economic policy is. Genuinely scary!

DublinSpark

namelessguy wrote: »

Michael Collins died in 1922. Fine Gael was founded in 1933.

True but none of them advocated for and celebrated the release of the killers of a Gard who did nothing other than attempt to uphold the laws of the country and protect it's citizens.

The men who shot Garda McCabe were entitled to be released under the terms of the GFA. Like it or not it is a document which has to either be 100% accepted or 1005 rejected you cant pick and choose which bits you take and which you leave as theres parts everyone finds unpalatable. By saying the McCabe killers shouldnt be released yet watch as the killers of RUC/British army or even innocent catholics means you are putting more importance on the life McCabe than all others killed in that conflict which isnt right. If they were entitled to be released under the GFA then they should have been. End of.

takun

DublinSpark wrote: »

The men who shot Garda McCabe were entitled to be released under the terms of the GFA. Like it or not it is a document which has to either be 100% accepted or 1005 rejected you cant pick and choose which bits you take and which you leave as theres parts everyone finds unpalatable. By saying the McCabe killers shouldnt be released yet watch as the killers of RUC/British army or even innocent catholics means you are putting more importance on the life McCabe than all others killed in that conflict which isnt right. If they were entitled to be released under the GFA then they should have been. End of.

I am sure you meant to say 'innocent Catholics and Protestants' there, but leaving that aside....

I think we know why they were released. However that it was a cause for celebration to see convicted murderers, of anyone, released is a different thing. It is also a different thing when the killing of a Garda, who when going about his or her duties is in effect acting as a representative of the state - that would be us - cannot be condemned without reservation.

cniriain

Ianuss - I would like to ask you the source of YOUR information. what makes your info right and Sinn Fein's wrong??

Pete_Cavan

DublinSpark wrote: »

The men who shot Garda McCabe were entitled to be released under the terms of the GFA. Like it or not it is a document which has to either be 100% accepted or 1005 rejected you cant pick and choose which bits you take and which you leave as theres parts everyone finds unpalatable. By saying the McCabe killers shouldnt be released yet watch as the killers of RUC/British army or even innocent catholics means you are putting more importance on the life McCabe than all others killed in that conflict which isnt right. If they were entitled to be released under the GFA then they should have been. End of.

Leaving aside the issue of their release, it is absolutely repulsive that a member of our parliament would greet cop killers upon their release from prison. I would be ashamed if a party who accepts people like this was to form part of our government.