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Your roads wish list for 2011-2020

Amtmann

Okay, in this thread you list the schemes you'd ideally like to see complete by 2020.

List 10 schemes only, in order of preference.
Don't include fantasy schemes - your choices should be real-world proposals that are at the route selection phase at least.
No need to include M11 Arklow-Rathnew, Newlands Cross or M17/M18 Gort-Tuam, as these are going ahead.

My choices:

1) M20 Northern and Southern Section
Reason: Links Cork with Galway - economically strategic and improves road safety.

2) N6 Galway Outer Bypass
Reason: Economically important; environmental benefits (unless you are a bog cotton); major traffic decongestant.

3) Cork Northern Ring Road (East and West)
Reason: Major stimulus for Cork, which is the second most important economic area in the Republic.

4) M11 Enniscorthy Bypass
Reason: Economically strategic, improving access from south to south east; major decongestant; improved journey times.

5) N25 New Ross Bypass
Reason: Economically strategic, improving access from south to south east; major decongestant; improved journey times.

6) N24 Pallasgreen-Cahir
Reason: Strategic economic route linking Waterford with Limerick and Galway; major improvement in journey times; bypasses Tipp Town; major safety benefits.

7) N4 Mullingar-Longford
Improved Access to NW. Increased safety.

8) N8/N25 Dunkettle Interchange Upgrade
Reason: Major decongestant; environmental benefits; economically important. The North Ring Road, if completed first, would take some strain off this before the improvement could be undertaken, hence it's quite low down my list.

9) N28 Cork-Ringaskiddy
Again, I feel Cork must be prioritised as second city. Economic connectivity to Ringaskiddy Deepwater Port and pharmaceutical hub. Safety Benefits.

10) Motorway Service Areas
Reason: Safety. Environmental benefits. Maintains motorway level of service.

I've left out important items such as the Slane Bypass as this and similar projects are so short. I've also left out the N25 Cork-Waterford sections, the N11 Oilgate to Rosslare, N4 Sligo Bypass and numerous longer N2 improvements (as I feel Dublin-Derry should be rationalised and integrated with the M1) and the LOR/DOOR. My numbering preferences aren't cast iron, but generally indicate my sense of what needs doing.

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Comments

Jayuu

veryangryman wrote: »

Im not surprised. Who will really need it? How often these days do you come to a standstill on the M50. Very little bang for buck now that M50 is upgraded

True. The only place that needs improvement would be to extend the 3 lanes of the M1 to Lissenhall given that Newland X is finally being dealt with. At that point the M50 actually serves its original purpose as a Dublin bypass. I would even go as far as saying the we don't even need the Eastern Bypass anymore.

I started a Top 10 list but couldn't get it down to less than 15. I also got confused by some of the criteria (e.g. Do we include the M20 given that its planned even if not started or are we only to exclude schemes that we know are definitely starting such as Newlands X and the like?).

Amtmann

Jayuu wrote: »

I started a Top 10 list but couldn't get it down to less than 15. I also got confused by some of the criteria (e.g. Do we include the M20 given that its planned even if not started or are we only to exclude schemes that we know are definitely starting such as Newlands X and the like?).

Only exclude schemes which we know will start very soon (and of these, there aren't many: M17/M18; Newlands Cross; M11 Arklow-Rathnew are all almost certain to start in 2011). So you can include in your list all other currently-on-the-table schemes, including the M20.

chelseavera

Just ONE ...

TUAM BYPASS PLEASE!!:mad:

Zoney

antoobrien wrote: »

And I'd drop the M7 Widening, it'll only promote more development of the most expensive areas of the country, not what we need if we want the country to become economically competitive again. (not that expect agreement with this)

Actually I think the interurbans do work both ways (captain obvious statement, but anyway) in terms of economic development. As regards the M7's role: Cork, Limerick and Waterford are all more attractive locations in themselves for business if they have faster links to Dublin.

Slower and slower traffic from the Naas Road to Kildare or vice-versa affects *all* of those cities as well as regional towns. It's not a Dublin-centric issue.

As regards the DOOR - well, as much as one doesn't like the aspect of road building of "when will it end", I think such a route may be needed in future (although really I'd prefer the N52 and other secondaries in the area were upgraded to 2+2). However, I think the M50 will do the job for a number of years, even if not without hitches. It's a bit mental to go on these days, but at least you can mostly get where you're going without anything like the days of the gated toll and the grade-separated roundabouts. I think we may need it even a bit before 2020, but if it is planned before then and built soon after, we'll probably manage.

runway16

Jayuu wrote: »

True. The only place that needs improvement would be to extend the 3 lanes of the M1 to Lissenhall given that Newland X is finally being dealt with. At that point the M50 actually serves its original purpose as a Dublin bypass. I would even go as far as saying the we don't even need the Eastern Bypass anymore.

I started a Top 10 list but couldn't get it down to less than 15. I also got confused by some of the criteria (e.g. Do we include the M20 given that its planned even if not started or are we only to exclude schemes that we know are definitely starting such as Newlands X and the like?).

I respectfully disagree. The M50 isnt a Dublin bypass, because it doesnt bypass Dublin! It is very much in Urban territory, and one still has to enter the Dublin traffic system to use it. Blame our planners, but to function as a bypass, it is way too close to the centre, and finds it ultimate use as a commuter route.

Im not saying we need LOOR now, but we will at some point in the future. Granted, the M50 works great now, but then it did just after it was opened too for a couple of very short years! ;-)

runway16

Zoney wrote: »

Actually I think the interurbans do work both ways (captain obvious statement, but anyway) in terms of economic development. As regards the M7's role: Cork, Limerick and Waterford are all more attractive locations in themselves for business if they have faster links to Dublin.

Slower and slower traffic from the Naas Road to Kildare or vice-versa affects *all* of those cities as well as regional towns. It's not a Dublin-centric issue.

Bang on mate. Adding another lane to an existing motorway isnt going to re-inforce any regional imbalance. The Motorway is already there - you are just making it work better. The Motorways and their functioning actually will benefit the regional cities more I think - we cant deny that the economic and Population hub is Dublin, but Limerick, Waterford etc all gain by having ready access for their companies to that large market.

Think also of the ease with which people can now get to the various parts of Ireland - think of the benefits as tourists who previously might have confined themselves to the capital on their long weekend break are encouraged to go beyond the city. This is especially relevant given the scale of flights into Dublin airport, and the difficulties in sustaining many flights at Shannon, Cork etc.

I think in perhaps 5 or 6 years, we will really appreciate the benefits that the motorway network has brought to the whole country, particularly as the inter-regional routes like Cork-Limerick-Galway are completed.

Sponge Bob

Congested 2 lane motorway sections that will require a look/possible widening are:

1. M1 Airport around Swords ....but Metro North and park and ride are supposed to 'solve' that

2. M7 Naas - M9. This , if widened and with the necesssary extra movements added to the M7 / M9 junction together with the stub of the Outer Orbiital northbound should be looked at together.
3. M4 Leixlip to Maynooth. This is rather congested and slow and will likely require the third lane too. Building an outer orbital section M7-M4 would kill it meaning this section will have to predate any outer orbital.
4. M50/M11 around Cherrywood to Bray North.

However slow motorways generally do not kill people like the N20 Buttevant bends and the N17 Milltown-Ballindine section and the N24 from Tipp-Cahir assuredly do. Therefore these putative improvements to existing motorways should be analysed vis a vis new sections.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Congested 2 lane motorway sections that will require a look/possible widening are:

1. M1 Airport around Swords ....but Metro North and park and ride are supposed to 'solve' that
2. M7 Naas - M9. This , if widened and with the necesssary extra movements added to the M7 / M9 junction together with the stub of the Outer Orbiital northbound should be looked at together.
3. M4 Leixlip to Maynooth. This is rather congested and slow and will likely require the third lane too. Building an outer orbital section M7-M4 would kill it meaning this section will have to predate any outer orbital.
4. M50/M11 around Cherrywood to Bray North.

To solve these problems all that is needed is for the Gardai to enforce all the the traffic laws i.e. the right lane is for overtaking. This is a particularly bad problem on the M4 (not just this section), where people just drive in the right lane with plenty of free space in the left lane.

Bards

antoobrien wrote: »

To solve these problems all that is needed is for the Gardai to enforce all the the traffic laws i.e. the right lane is for overtaking. This is a particularly bad problem on the M4 (not just this section), where people just drive in the right lane with plenty of free space in the left lane.

Driver education needs to be done, IF only the NRA would paint the motorways and DC's with "Driving Lane", "Over-taking Lane" every 2Km's or so and people might eventually get the message

NFD100

1) Driver education - in relation to roads and how to drive on them!
2) Regional roads - to be consistently lined and signed properly - take the control of these roads off the local authorities and give to the NRA.
3) 3 lane M1 as far as Co. Meath boundary/start of CRG scheme

loyatemu

Sponge Bob wrote: »

4. M50/M11 around Cherrywood to Bray North.

whats needed here is 3rd lane and distributor roads from the existing Bray North to Kilmacanogue (probably only on the southbound side though) - this might also allow them to close some of the plethora of LILO junctions and private accesses.

Not a huge project, but as you point out, nobody is dying there, unlike on the N20 or at the N11 gap.

Jayuu

OK then. Here goes. I admit that my list is probably going to be biased towards the southern end of the country because that what I know best. These are in no particular order.

M20 (Northern and Southern sections)
Since these plans are already in place and this is a major strategic route then I think it makes complete sense to go ahead and implement both sections of the route.

N24 (Pallasgreen to Cahir)
N24 (Carrick-on-Suir bypass)
I'd love to see the entire N24 dualled but in the short term these sections should definitely go ahead. I'm going for the Carrick bypass as well because with both these schemes the N24 would at least bypass the biggest towns on the route which would help with traffic flows on this route.

N4 (Carrick-on-Shannon bypass)
Again I'd like to see a lot more work done on the N4 but since we're being selective then this scheme should definitely be implemented as it removes a major bottleneck on the Sligo route.

N25 (New Ross bypass)
N25 (Dungarvan bypass)
Perhaps the traffic volumes on the N25 aren't as high as other areas but by removing these two towns from the route you've pretty much taken all of the major towns on the N25 out of the flow.

M8/N25 (Dunkettle Interchange and N25 Ring Road improvements)
I'm treating this as one scheme because its all to achieve the same goal which is improve traffic flow around Cork city. Dunkettle is a joke really in that its crazy to think that you can drive from Dublin to Cork in around 2 hours and then spend nearly twenty minutes trying to get off the motorway. It should have been upgraded as part of the M8 programme.

N6 (Galway Outer Bypass)
Same reason as Dunkettle/Ring Road schemes above. You zip along to Galway in great time and then lose all the time you gained stuck in traffic in Galway city. Providing a way around the city will improve distribution and flow.

M17 (Tuam to Claremorris)
I'd like to say Tuam to Collooney but technically that more than one scheme so at the very least the M17 should be extended further northwards to improve access for the west of the country to the motorway network.

That makes 10 by my reckoning. Its a tough call to make. There were some others I considered such as the N28, Other N4 schemes, Claregalway as well as some of the secondary road schemes but I think these would be the most important in my book.

Tech3

I reckon the LOOR is a dead duck at this stage and wont be built in our lifetime. Great to see the N17 Tuam-Claremorris on a few 'wish lists' for 2011-2020. It should be built within the next 10 years anyway. Cant say the same for the awful Colooney-Tubbercurry stretch which will take a lot longer to get to the tender stage.

Amtmann

I think the LOR should at least be progressed to the planning approved stage over the next ten years so that construction can start post 2020.

KevR

Galway Bypass: Galway's gridlock is stiffling the Western economy in my opinion.
M20 North
M20 South: Cork, Limerick and Galway need to be properly connected. Galway-Dublin and Galway-Cork are both roughly the same distance but it can take twice as long to drive to Cork as it does Dublin!! Our 2nd, 3rd and 4th cities need to be better connected for economic reasons. Also, the N20 is dangerous.
M4: widening from Lucan to Maynooth: heavily trafficked and often slow moving; will only get worse.
Cork SRR: improvements
Claregalway Inner Relief Road: M17/18 will improve the Claregalway situation somewhat but an inner relief road will still be needed.
N17: improvements Tuam-Claremorris mainly because it's a death trap.
Cork NRR
M7: widening to the M9 diverge.
M1: widening to possibly J6.

Apart from the Galway Bypass and the M20 schemes, there is no real order to my wishlist.

spacetweek

M1 Widening Drinan-Balbriggan
N4 Carrick-on-shannon bypass
N6 Galway Outer Bypass
M20 North & Adare Bypass (packaged together)
M20 South & Cork North Ring (packaged together)
N24 Pallasgreen-Bansha
N25 Dunkettle
N25 South Ring Interchanges
N25 New Ross Bypass
N28 Ringaskiddy

Note that I didn't include N4 Mullingar-Longford. Don't agree that traffic volumes are high and passing opportunities limited here - have driven many, many times over the years with no problems. Road is wide and straight. The silly Edgeworthstown bypass, with its roundabouts, actually causes more problems than it solves!

Instead I included the essential Carrick on Shannon bypass. The terrain and town layout and traffic levels here are such that this bypass is urgently needed. The town is long and winding and the whole N4 through the town is used to access developments. The place badly needs to be decongested of its gridlock. On journeys from Dublin to Sligo I am always caught here, never anywhere else.

Although I think the N21 and N22 need to be dualled into Kerry, I didn't list these either, as these are 'desirable' schemes rather than essential in the short term. There have been a number of improvements completed or soon to be underway *within* Kerry - Tralee (2011), Castleisland (2010), Tralee-Castleisland (few years ago), south to Farranfore. These are sufficient for the next few years.

I didn't list the M11 Enniscorthy because although it's being prioritised, this seems to be largely because it's the E01 euroroute and not because there's some massive pressing need.

LOOR and Dublin Eastern Bypass - needed, but not until after 2020.

Leonard Hofstadter

1. Newlands Cross. Once this is gone it is non-stop from the Red Cow to the Jack Lynch tunnel and also will speed up access into/out of Dublin, which is important since it is the capital.
2. M6 Galway city bypass. Enormously important for the West of Ireland and balanced regional development, which benefits ALL of the country.
3. M20 Northern Section.
4. M20 Southern Section. It is obviously essential that the 2nd and 3rd biggest cities this side of the border are connected by high quality road.
5. Cork Sarsfield Road and Bandon road flyovers. Again Cork is the 2nd biggest city and waiting 10 minutes to get through both roundabouts in peak hours is not acceptable. Very wasteful of fuel too so it would be good for the planet as well.
6. Slane bypass(safety).
7. N17 Tuam to Claremorris, Tuam is hellish to get through.
8. N24 Pallasgreen to Cahir(you've got to start somewhere on this and that is the longest section!)
9. N28 Ringaskiddy. Cork has a ferry and port connection but it is not being used to the best of its potential because the current road while of good standard is desperately under capacity.
10. I was tempted to throw in the Northern Ring Road but in fairness Cork does not suffer the chronic traffic congestion that Dublin and Galway do, even during peak traffic hours, I reckon that installing the flyovers will make enough of a difference. I have chosen the N/M11 Arklow to Rathnew because it is not a good idea to have lots of motorway and then a cumberland gap like that, so from a safety point of view I think this needs doing.

Sponge Bob

captainspeed wrote: »

7. N17 Tuam to Claremorris, Tuam is hellish to get through.

The Tuam Bypass is part of the Tuam-Gort scheme and may even be finished and open within 2 years ( the rest of it won't)