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Banking scare threads and the truth.

DeVore

A few people like to start "scare threads" of the type "My mate works in <insert bank> and he told me to get my money out / everyones taking their money out / the manager told me we will collapse later today" etc.

Arm yourself with the truth:
http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-deposits-guarantee-after-september-2010.html

Cliff notes:

Up to 100K in most/all major banks is guaranteed, by the state, indefinitely.

Past 100K its guaranteed to the end of 2010 and will probably be extended.

Our banking sector, like everyone elses, is in rag order but lets not deal in fanciful nonsense. Stick to the facts.

DeV.

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Banned Account

jackiebaron wrote: »

That was clever. Want me to rub your balls, hug you and tell you everything will be alright, sweetheart?

The same guy (Mike Whitney) who said the crisis was manufactured (back in 2005) has made all the same predictions that are diametrically opposed to the rosy outcomes that everyone is hoping for. I made a bit of money short selling spread bets on banking stocks and Home Depot...until the sly bastards banned the practice.
Go ahead and call people UFO/alien-abduction nutjobs if it makes you feel smug and comfy..I don't subscribe to any of that crap either but I do know that anyone who thinks this meltdown was accidental is a mug.

Do you know who Mike Whitney is?

No.

Case closed.

Thank you.

General Zod

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Oh i agree those threads should be taken down but in my thread i was only giving my opinion, i didnt make up Gossip nor did i tell people withdraw money, i just gave my opinion.

and your opinion is fearmongering nonsense.

jackiebaron

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

From another thread I brought you this :-

That was clever. Want me to rub your balls, hug you and tell you everything will be alright, sweetheart?

The same guy (Mike Whitney) who said the crisis was manufactured (back in 2005) has made all the same predictions that are diametrically opposed to the rosy outcomes that everyone is hoping for. I made a bit of money short selling spread bets on banking stocks and Home Depot...until the sly bastards banned the practice.
Go ahead and call people UFO/alien-abduction nutjobs if it makes you feel smug and comfy..I don't subscribe to any of that crap either but I do know that anyone who thinks this meltdown was accidental is a mug.

Slydice

DeVore wrote: »

Were guaranteed by the trillion euros Merkel has made available to governments. That was a clever move by a politician that has done more for us than any of her Irish counterparts. I said it would quell investor speculation and it did.

DeV.

Dev, I don't understand some of your post.

First: guaranteed by the trillion euros Merkel has made available to governments
What is this that you are talking about.
Also, how would Germany get this Trillion euros to give out (especially when it took the entire USA to muster up a Trillion for it's stimulus).
Next, Why would Germany make a Trillion Euro of it's own money available to the dodgiest countries in Europe (is it because we owe Germany so much money that our Default results in a bigger loss for them)?

Second: a clever move by a politician that has done more for us than any of her Irish counterparts
You can big up almost any politician in the world at the moment and by simply not doing anything for Ireland, they'd have done more for us than any of their Irish counterparts

Third: it would quell investor speculation and it did
What speculation are you talking about?
Are you talking about our bonds getting up to the "6" value that seems to have people flustered? I had a quick check and... it's still there at 6:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=GIGB10YR:IND

Last Update: 5:38 AM ET, Sep 9
Value: 6.002
Ireland 10 Year

Banned Account

jackiebaron wrote: »

The EU/ECB don't act in anyone's interest. Trichet is bailing out banks but forcing austerity measures on Joe Public. Don't state that so-and-so won't let it happen just because it comforts you. The entire financial collapse was manufactured, it wasn't an accident so if you think these scumbags won't allow certain things to happen then you're just being naive. I don't want to be a doom-and-gloom merchant but false hope and wishful thinking are very dangerous.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26308.htm

From another thread I brought you this :-

How to Make a Tinfoil Hat

The mention of a tin foil hat brings to mind the movie image of a derelict stumbling though the streets with an aluminum beanie perched on his head to protect himself from alien rays or governmental mind control. But for the paranoid among us, a tin foil hat is the ultimate in protective headgear. Foil hats are easy to make and free as well.

Difficulty: Easy
Instructions

Things You'll Need:
Five or Six Feet of Heavy Duty Aluminum Foil
Scissors
Tape
Pencil or Ball Point Pen
Rope, Twine, Ribbon or Other Material to Tie Hat on Head
Make an Emergency Tin Foil Hat
1
Grab a couple of pieces of aluminum foil. The ones in the trash that were used to cover leftover casseroles or wrap fresh fish will do just fine.
2
Place one piece of aluminum foil on your head from front to back.
3
Mash the foil down to conform to the shape of your head and fit as snugly as possible.
4
Take the second piece of aluminum foil and place across the top of the head from ear to ear.
5
Mash the second piece of foil down over the first piece making a quick tin foil hat that probably won't hold up for long but will do in a pinch.
6
Stand the two pieces of foil up and fold over at each end to make a cone shaped hat. This hat design will take a little more time, but is worth the extra effort.
7
Place the tin cone on the head and mash it all together above the head to seal out dangerous rays and deflect mind control waves outward.
Make a Basic Tinfoil Hat
1
Find five or six feet of heavy duty aluminum foil.
2
Fold the aluminum foil several times, making a 12 inch square with the shiny side out.
3
Cut the foil from one side to the center in a straight line.
4
Bend the foil with one side under the other to make a cone shape, leaving the shiny side showing.
5
Place the cone shaped tin foil hat on the head and adjust the fit by mashing the foil against the head.
6
Tape the cut you made in the foil securely closed.
7
Punch holes in each side of the hat with a pencil, ball point pen or tip of scissors.
8
Place rope, twine, ribbon or any other string-like material through the holes and tie snugly under the chin.

Tips & Warnings

It is very important for the shiny side of the aluminum foil to be showing when the hat is complete to make sure it is effective against alien rays or mind control signals.

jackiebaron

DeVore wrote: »

Ireland Inc defaulting on its governmental borrowings is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be allowed to happen. If it did, it would mean the cost of borrowing for the government would rocket and we'd have to "live within our means".

However, the Bank of Ireland / AIB / Etc are not national banks, they are effectively privately owned businesses and as such wouldnt be immediately affected. The knock on effects might not be pleasant (the guarantee would probably be seen as unsustainable for a start) but again, this wouldnt be allowed to crash the banking system.

So, if Ireland Inc defaulted (very unlikely to be allowed happen) there would be no direct effect on banking here. There may be ramifications but everything along this chain is in the "highly unlikely to be allowed happen" category.

DeV.

Will you stop with the "unlikely to be allowed to happen" bullsh!t!
What are you basing this feeble hope on?

POINTBREAK

New York Times article

jackiebaron

mike65 wrote: »

Don't worry about defaulting, the EU/ECB will simply not allow it to happen for reasons that have nothing to do with Ireland

The EU/ECB don't act in anyone's interest. Trichet is bailing out banks but forcing austerity measures on Joe Public. Don't state that so-and-so won't let it happen just because it comforts you. The entire financial collapse was manufactured, it wasn't an accident so if you think these scumbags won't allow certain things to happen then you're just being naive. I don't want to be a doom-and-gloom merchant but false hope and wishful thinking are very dangerous.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26308.htm

ch750536

Dev, sorry mate but you are full of crap. Nobody knows what is around the corner and your pro europe stance will last as long as the germans sense of humour.

Whilst I agree a run on the banks is not warranted, to tell people that things will be rosy to the degree where you claim a default of the state will not affect the commercial banks is exactly the ignorance your OP was trying to eliminate.

There are many strings on many bows with many people fighting over them, some of them good, some of them bad. That is the reality of the finance of the world right now. Anything can and may happen.

Jev/N

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I didnt mean to scare anyone, i was just stated the way things could go in the forseable future.

That's like saying the world will end in 2012. It's possible; but with that point of view, anything is.

JONJO THE MISER

Oh i agree those threads should be taken down but in my thread i was only giving my opinion, i didnt make up Gossip nor did i tell people withdraw money, i just gave my opinion.

mikemac

"My friend in Bank of Ireland called me to state that people were queing up to withdraw their money"

It's not the exact wording, the thread is now deleted and I don't ever remember who the OP was

But this sort of thread scares people and on Ireland's largest message board it'll reach thousands of people within an hour.
Tens of thousands by the end of that working day.

This is the sort of thing that causes runs on banks.

If that OP has good info then post it but it better be something more then "my friend called to say....."

[Deleted User]

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I didnt mean to scare anyone, i was just stated the way things could go in the forseable future. When i said Black Wed i meant that the bond markets could go higher on that day. I mentioned stocking up on food because i feel people should be prepared for everything and anything that could happen when things get worse.
There are lots of people writing in newspapers and wall street analysts who see the world economy going the same way i do, just beacuse you don agree with me you have no right calling me a anarchist or any other such thing.

Stocking up on food. Do you work for a supermaket or something?

JONJO THE MISER

I didnt mean to scare anyone, i was just stated the way things could go in the forseable future. When i said Black Wed i meant that the bond markets could go higher on that day. I mentioned stocking up on food because i feel people should be prepared for everything and anything that could happen when things get worse.
There are lots of people writing in newspapers and wall street analysts who see the world economy going the same way i do, just beacuse you don agree with me you have no right calling me a anarchist or any other such thing.

oppenheimer1

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

You can see for yourself on this forum that the government has told boards.ie to sticky a banking thread saying there is nothing to worry about, when in fact the guarantee on customer deposits isnt worth the paper its written on, there dont have the money to back it up.

JONJO, you opened the thread yesterday purely with the intention of scaring a large number of people into withdrawing their funds from Irish banks. This was irresponsible and I'm glad to see this thread stickied in AH. Yes we do have problems in our banks and the government is running an unsustainable deficit however to suggest that there was to be a "Black Wednesday" and to stock up on canned goods leads me to believe you are an elaborate troll/social arsonist with a personality deficiency or a crank.

The power of the new media has yet to be fully realised by the establishment in Ireland and there is a real risk a bank run could be kicked off by irresponsible posting either here or on the largely unmoderated politics.ie. Much like the burning of the Koran in the USA, free speech is important but it is important to bear in mind the serious consequences such posting could have.

I know this is just internet message boards but if actions proposed here and elsewhere become reality it has real life consequences. Scaring people isn't a game and it isn't funny, even if you get a kick from it. I hope you and some of the posters on politics.ie can remember this.

JONJO, you should be ashamed of yourself.

moretothegirl

I have been reading through this thread and appreciate everyones info and advice.
I still have 2 questions however I hope that someone here might be able to answer.

Firstly, somebody mentioned here that it doesnt matter if Ireland is able to keep its guarantee or not because the EU has also given its guarantee? Is this true? If so whats the big deal really? If Ire does default will this not mean the EU will pay the Irish people the money??

Second thing I wanted to clarify is this, I have some (not a lot and certainly less than 100k!!) in a normal current account in BOI. Ive never bothered to open a savings account so I just want to check will this be covered with the govt guarantee or am I supposed to have my money in a savings account for it to be covered???

Gummy Panda

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

You can see for yourself on this forum that the government has told boards.ie to sticky a banking thread saying there is nothing to worry about, when in fact the guarantee on customer deposits isnt worth the paper its written on, there dont have the money to back it up.

Yes. Brian Cowen & Brian Lenihan sent a directive to Dev telling him to spread Government propaganda.

... or it could be to combat unfounded scare mongering spread by people like yourself.

POINTBREAK

Somebody mentioned the power of perception. In one of the newspapers a poll showed that over 70% of people think that Anglo Irish bank will be the cause of Ireland going Bankrupt.
The New York Times ran an article titled Can One Bank bring down a Country (or words to that effect) and they were talking about Ireland. Lets hope perception isn't the only test.
It has been pointed out in the last few days that a child born today will instantly owe 200k. The countries credit rating has been downgraded meaning interest on borrowing will be higher, and it is projected that the interest alone on Ireland's debt will be 10 billion a year.
Is your money safe? No one knows for sure but if its only "Highly unlikely that Ireland would default, could someone define" highly unlikely"?
Is it highly unlikely like, property losing half of its value? Oh.......... hold on that was impossible.

dr.bollocko

You're one of those glass is half empty guys aren't you Jonjo?

JONJO THE MISER

You can see for yourself on this forum that the government has told boards.ie to sticky a banking thread saying there is nothing to worry about, when in fact the guarantee on customer deposits isnt worth the paper its written on, there dont have the money to back it up.

AckwelFoley

Yes, this thread is not welcomed in AH.

It contravenes the bull**** and rabble rabble code of pitchforkyness

Its clear, tom must have taken a bribe from the government.

R0ot

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Stickied. Lets try and combat misinformation for a changewhile.

This is not in the spirit of AH,

TO FEEDBACK! :pac:

dr.bollocko

Stickied. Lets try and combat misinformation for a changewhile.

SeaFields

Matt Cooper show now is dedicated to the developments on Anglo today. He has some good analysts on at the mo - shane ross, brian lucey. Prob get a better idea on Irish banking from this show than anywhere else.**

** excluding this thread of course :cool:

Blowfish

As a side note though, personally I'll be moving my savings away from Irish banks, guarantee or no guarantee. I'd rather give a solvent bank the use of my money rather than one which has proven to be, quite frankly, incompetent.

bnt

If you want the exact details on the govt. bank guarantee scheme, get the PDF document on this page. It includes the following:

Under the Scheme, the Minister for Finance guarantees under the laws of Ireland certain types of liabilities (“covered liabilities”) of certain participating named institutions (“covered institutions”) for the period 30 September 2008 to 29 September 2010 inclusive. A list of covered institutions as at the date of these FAQs is set out under Q 11 below.
If a covered institution defaults in respect of a covered liability, the Minister of Finance will pay to the creditor, on demand, an amount equal to the unpaid covered liabilities.
...
What is a “covered liability”?
Covered liabilities are listed in the Scheme as:
(a) all retail and corporate deposits (to the extent not covered by existing deposit protection schemes in Ireland or any other jurisdiction);
...
What is a “deposit” for the purposes of the Scheme?
For the purposes of the Scheme, a deposit includes any credit balance with a covered institution that results from funds left in any account or normal banking transactions and which the credit institution is obliged to repay, and any debt evidenced by a certificate issued by a credit institution, and includes money in share accounts with building societies.
Therefore, cash deposits (fixed rate and tracker) and certificates of deposit are both covered by the guarantee.
...

The document says that the current scheme expires at the end of this month, but that's out of date: it's been extended to the end of the year. Note also:

The Minister reiterated that this announcement does not affect retail deposits of up to €100,000 as these deposits continue to be guaranteed under the ordinary Deposit Guarantee Scheme and that Scheme is not time limited.

So there's no reason for a bank run. Deposit Guarantees schemes have been set up specifically to prevent this. There was a partial bank run in Greece earlier this year: not out of fear that the banks would fail, but that Greece might be kicked out of the Eurozone, they'd go back to the Drachma, and their deposits would be decimated by inflation. So lots of Euros left Greece for Italy etc. :eek:

DeVore

Were guaranteed by the trillion euros Merkel has made available to governments. That was a clever move by a politician that has done more for us than any of her Irish counterparts. I said it would quell investor speculation and it did.

DeV.

Blowfish

I'm no economist, but I don't see what the whole fuss is about the Irish deposit guarantee is. It seems pretty irrelevant considering deposits of up to 100k are guaranteed by the EU.

R P McMurphy

As I see it the difficulty down the line for Ireland could be an attack on the corporate tax rate. If we go into a Greek bailout situation, we will be expected to offer up some things in return. Austerity measures being one but more importantly for the big EU powerhouses could be their pet hate.

I don't think we would be allowed to default, not out of any love for us but the fact that european (mainly German) banks are owed billions by their rogue counterparts in Ireland. They lent recklessly to reckless banks and therefore if we default they are in big trouble as well

Banned Account

Slydice wrote: »

I get ya. It's just fairly scarey in how it's operating.

We're relying on a guarantee from a bunch of lads who got us here in the first place.

We know the guarantee is a lie because Ireland can't afford to pay it off if the **** hits the fan

The same lines are being used now as before... highly unlikely, soft landing, turned a corner, stop talking us down and go commit suicide, highly unlike to happen etc...

when in fact

Nobody seems to have a ****ing clue what's going on or what will happen.

The last people who listened to that have seen a bunch of Irish drift into negative equity and unemployment.

I myself have (small) savings (as you might have guessed) and would like a clue this time.

If all the banks fail and the Irish Government goes bankrupt and cannot cover the deposit guarantee then your money will be gone if you have not withdrawn it.

If that happens you will also be homeless, have no electricity and be starving very soon afterwards. If you are not gang raped by roving delinquent skanger gangs you will die of disease or malnutrition.

So there you have it.

Hope you're happy you pushed me to it now.