[US/IRL] 6x17/18 - "The End" (2.5 Hour Series Finale) [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

whiteman19 wrote: »

the losties created purgatory as a way of finding each other and moving on into the light together as the time they spent with each other was the most important of their lives - see Christian's speech at the end. it helps to go over it a second time

It's great that they have that ability, you know, to just create things like that. Maybe they're actually all wizards.

dudeitshurley

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of people asking 'what was the point?' of the whole island business. Personally I thought they have explained the point pretty well over the years - ultimately, Jacob was seeking others to carry on protecting it. In this he succeeded. Individually, the characters also grew and dealt with their inner demons due to the events that occured, and most if not all of the mains found the redemption they were desperately seeking in the end. Jack smiling at the very end sums it up - he has helped the others escape & helped save the island, and that for him was reason enough. I'm sure you could go through the individual characters and find similar moments (Kate successfully getting Claire home, Ben atoning for his wrongs, Sayid's sacrifice etc...). It's always worth bearing in mind who these characters were before they arrived - there were three sometimes unnecessarily blunt & repetitive seasons of explaining this!

Honestly though I'm not sure if there has to be a point. At the end of the day, it was a science-fiction show about a magical island, in many ways it was just entertainment (albeit one with interesting characters and compelling mythology). Was there any need for an overall point, I dunno. Maybe it could have happened anywhere else, but would it have been anywhere near as fun? The island was one hell of a setting, that's reason enough for me.

I have so much i want to contribute and debate but it's a minefield in here right now so i'll have to focus on issues as they arise:

1. Jacob was seeking others to protect the Island. From what? Smokie? And before smokie from who or what? If from specifically Smokie, why? The Finale just showed Flocke/Smokie to be pretty clueless in what he was trying to achieve. Once the plug was pulled he became mortal and it shocked him. Why? -Because he had no clue what it would achieve. How could he? He was never ever down there in the cave.

1a. Why did Jack willingly let Desmond pull the plug? Even help him down there? No logical reasoning for it.

2. Why did the island need protecting? What was so special about this magical island that the fate of the world depended on it? Jacob previously talked about the Island being a "cork" to keep the darkness in, presumably the Island being the vessel in which it is contained. What was the darkness? Smokie? Doubtful. Electromagnetism from the magical cave with a plug? Hmmmmm.

Can people SERIOUSLY say it's sufficient for them not to know any of these things and just to surmise and theorise? If that's the case, then we end up having to surmise and theorise over EVERY SINGLE plot mystery over 6 seasons, most of which have come to unfulfilling ends.

Essien wrote: »

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but was anybody else feckin' delighted when the runway (mentioned by Juliet to Sawyer & built by the others in season 3) was shown to have had such an important purpose all along

Yes I noticed it too. I believe Kate and Sawyer were told by the others that Jacob wanted the runway to be built.

seadnamac wrote: »

It's great that they have that ability, you know, to just create things like that. Maybe they're actually all wizards.

yes they're all wizards *sigh*
who knows what purgatory is like? it's the afterlife - they're passing into the light together. can't you just be happy with that? i am, and i'm not going to argue with you, cos this is just going to go round in circles

MisterAnarchy

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

This a fairly good review of last nights show
http://www.denofgeek.com/television/491371/lost_season_6_episode_17_review_the_lost_finale.html

Excellent article ,I like the reference to Battlestar Galactica its very apt.
Both finales were very similar in that they concentrated on the characters and the plot/mysteries were largely ignored.
They both had the divine metaphor too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PPCCcXarkc

whiteman19 wrote: »

yes they're all wizards *sigh*
who knows what purgatory is like? it's the afterlife - they're passing into the light together. can't you just be happy with that? i am, and i'm not going to argue with you, cos this is just going to go round in circles

Agreed.

henrik77

Absolutely loved the entire episode. Couldn't have ended it better in my opinion.

Mr.Nice Guy

Just rewatched the last 30 minutes of the episode there. I stand by my earlier views and my rating of 8. I liked the way they wrapped it up from the perspective of the characters but in terms of the plot, and the story as a whole, I feel it was a disappointment.

From reading the thread I do think people are going a bit OTT, at opposite ends of the scale. Some are being way too harsh on the episode which I think had a fine send-off for the characters, whilst on the other hand I think some are being way too generous towards the writers who evaded answering many questions.

There is no way I will ever be convinced that this was the plan from the start of the show as someone intimated. Their interviews this season highlight this was not the case. The Jacob/MIB conflict was essentially a season 5 creation whilst the flash sideways were a season 6 creation. The stuff in the early seasons from what I can see were simply mysterious elements that were thought up as the story progressed, and which ultimately have had no satisfying conclusion, i.e. the heavy emphasis on time travel, women can't give birth etc.

From what I can tell, the bomb going off had no effect whatsoever, and in many ways the alt timeline was a big red herring. It was suggested to us the sidways were a consequence of the bomb going off (what if the plane never crashed etc.) but as I understand it the purgatory place they were in has no connection to the detonation.

The numbers were not explained which has to be regarded as a disappointment. Someone said they were just the numbers of the candidates. This isn't good enough as in the first season Hurley met his friend in the mental hospital who was reciting them and it was revealed that they brought bad luck. They also had to be typed into The Swan station per Dharma Initiative's request. There were slight references to the numbers in every episode. Are we supposed to regard this as just coincidence? Walt was never explained properly either. How could he appear to Locke and Shannon? Why did The Others ask Michael if he had ever 'been somewhere he was not supposed to be'? How did he know that they had to leave the island in season 1 etc? There's a host of other unanswered questions as we all know.

I'm not going to go into a big diatribe about it but if people are going to make claims like 'it was all planned out all along' etc. then these things need to be mentioned too. Perhaps interviews in the coming weeks and months will provide some explanations, but imo if they have to explain things like that then it doesn't say a lot for what they did with the show itself.

My overall feeling is that Lost was an innovative and tremendous show, my favourite of the past decade, which unfortunately lost its way near the end much like a great movie which fails to deliver in the final stages. This will tarnish it to some extent for me. I don't think I gave out a single 10 this season and I'd regard season 6 as the most disappointing.

I will look back on the show, and on the many memories it gave me, with fondness. It was not the masterpiece which I had hoped it would turn out to be, but it was a special show nonetheless.

Stuxnet

lost's biggest mystery,,
how the feck did albert know how to put on his seatbelt in the airplane, the dudes a few hundred years old, i presume this was his first time on a plane, yet he ran in, sat down and put on his belt, i started roaring laughing to myself instantly !!

Essien

Sonovagun wrote: »

Why did Kate change outfits? She wasn't wearing her little black dress in the church! For this reason i gave it a 1/10

My thoughts exactly.

What idiot made her change out of this....

jimbling

Mr. Nice Guy, you may be surprised, but I pretty much agree with your post.

EDIT: lol, quick edit to change the completely to pretty much....I don't think Season 6 was that bad, and I don't think it has tarnished the rest too much...but they have made mistakes.

Stuxnet

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The numbers were not explained which has to be regarded as a disappointment. Someone said they were just the numbers of the candidates. This isn't good enough as in the first season Hurley met his friend in the mental hospital who was reciting them and it was revealed that they brought bad luck. They also had to be typed into The Swan station per Dharma Initiative's request. There were slight references to the numbers in every episode. Are we supposed to regard this as just coincidence?

the numbers were very well explained in an official online arg a few years ago,

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation

Sonovagun wrote: »

Why did Kate change outfits? She wasn't wearing her little black dress in the church! For this reason i gave it a 1/10

OMG - continuity error. that's it...Lost is officially the stupidest show EVER :eek:

only joking. Lost is brill

dudeitshurley wrote: »

I have so much i want to contribute and debate but it's a minefield in here right now so i'll have to focus on issues as they arise:

1. Jacob was seeking others to protect the Island. From what? Smokie? And before smokie from who or what? If from specifically Smokie, why? The Finale just showed Flocke/Smokie to be pretty clueless in what he was trying to achieve. Once the plug was pulled he became mortal and it shocked him. Why? -Because he had no clue what it would achieve. How could he? He was never ever down there in the cave.

1a. Why did Jack willingly let Desmond pull the plug? Even help him down there? No logical reasoning for it.

2. Why did the island need protecting? What was so special about this magical island that the fate of the world depended on it? Jacob previously talked about the Island being a "cork" to keep the darkness in, presumably the Island being the vessel in which it is contained. What was the darkness? Smokie? Doubtful. Electromagnetism from the magical cave with a plug? Hmmmmm.

Can people SERIOUSLY say it's sufficient for them not to know any of these things and just to surmise and theorise? If that's the case, then we end up having to surmise and theorise over EVERY SINGLE plot mystery over 6 seasons, most of which have come to unfulfilling ends.

This is what I took from it. The light was the key to the island. Once the light went out (via pulling out the stone, ie the cork) Locke was able to leave the island, but was also able to be killed and was able to kill the protector (Jack).

Desmond was bought to the island for this reason. If something went wrong, Desmond (as he had the ability to withstand electromagnatism) could go down to the light, pull the stone and someone could then kill FLocke. This was risky as FLocke could also leave the island, so as Widmore said, it was a last resort. Ironically it probably would have worked out better if he wasn't brought to the island, as Jack wouldn't of died and it probably would of resulted in Jack and FLocke being the only two on the island, ala Jacob and MiB.

The protector of the island had to make sure the Light never goes out as FLocke could then leave the island. As we have seen, FLocke is pretty ruthless and manipulative so it would be best if was contained on the island. He is the evil that Jacob told Richard about.

jimbling

Dman001 wrote: »

The protector of the island had to make sure the Light never goes out as FLocke could then leave the island. As we have seen, FLocke is pretty ruthless and manipulative so it would be best if was contained on the island. He is the evil that Jacob told Richard about.

The island needed protecting before MiB came to be and after he was gone.

What from? who knows....basically anyone that wanted to fck with the light. Protect the light..... that's the protectors role.... from whoever/whatever.

KoolKid

Do you remember a few seasons back (4 I think it was) when Ben visited Widmore in his apartment. They stated Ben could not kill him. What changed???
Also Penny was in the Church in the end. How did she die? Did I miss something.

wow almost 600 responses in about 16 hours after it aired. that has to be some kind of record on boards :eek:

donfers

I don't think the following interpretation of events can be argued with and I'd take this as the definitive summary

all the stuff on the island really happened

the alt universe was an exclusive members purgatory or meeting-point for significant losties allowing them to pass on to the light together

the purgatory club was created by hurley and ben and possibly desmond as only they would have lived long enough to gain the knowledge to create it

You will notice that the very first scene and last scene of lost find jack lying in the bamboo on a hill far from the plane wreck....after entering the light in the church (same light as that on island) jack will return to the island to play out the most intense and meaningful time of his life over and over, again and again ad infinitum, yes an infinite loop (hence the many cyclical stuff peppered throughout every episode of lost)

light of island = light in church = life, death and REBIRTH

koolkid wrote: »

Also Penny was in the Church in the end. How did she die? Did I miss something.

the thing in the church happened when everyone died. it didn't happen just after Jack died. they were all brought together at the point after they died (at separate times as Christian said). time has no meaning in purgatory

prinz

whiteman19 wrote: »

OMG - continuity error. that's it...Lost is officially the stupidest show EVER :eek:

I reckon that was sacrificed to the spirit of conservative America. Wearing something that hot, in a church? :eek: They'd be scandalised.

koolkid wrote: »

Do you remember a few seasons back (4 I think it was) when Ben visited Widmore in his apartment. They stated Ben could not kill him. What changed???
Also Penny was in the Church in the end. How did she die? Did I miss something.

So was Hurley and Kate. They eventually died.

GAAman

Sonovagun wrote: »

Why did Kate change outfits? She wasn't wearing her little black dress in the church! For this reason i gave it a 1/10

whiteman19 wrote: »

OMG - continuity error. that's it...Lost is officially the stupidest show EVER :eek:

only joking. Lost is brill

I actually think it is to do with when she is in the dress for the concert this is from jacks perspective, remember he went into the churches vestry not knowing he was dead, if she had suddenly gone from wearing one outfit to a totally different one while in the car his spidey senses might have tingled

i think the black dress is from his purgatory and what she is wearing in the church is her own image if you get me?

Melion

Why didnt Ben go into the church?

jimbling wrote: »

The island needed protecting before MiB came to be and after he was gone.

What from? who knows....basically anyone that wanted to fck with the light. Protect the light..... that's the protectors role.... from whoever/whatever.

True and we saw the reason for that. When Jacob threw MiB into the Light, Smokie was released/created.

Melion wrote: »

Why didnt Ben go into the church?

he wasn't fully ready. he still had sins to atone for...killing his father and dharma folk, killing his daughter, killing widmore...basically a lot of killing and back-stabbing.
he couldn't move on into the light without repenting

dudeitshurley

Dman001 wrote: »

This is what I took from it. The light was the key to the island. Once the light went out (via pulling out the stone, ie the cork) Locke was able to leave the island, but was also able to be killed and was able to kill the protector (Jack).

Desmond was bought to the island for this reason. If something went wrong, Desmond (as he had the ability to withstand electromagnatism) could go down to the light, pull the stone and someone could then kill FLocke. This was risky as FLocke could also leave the island, so as Widmore said, it was a last resort. Ironically it probably would have worked out better if he wasn't brought to the island, as Jack wouldn't of died and it probably would of resulted in Jack and FLocke being the only two on the island, ala Jacob and MiB.

The protector of the island had to make sure the Light never goes out as FLocke could then leave the island. As we have seen, FLocke is pretty ruthless and manipulative so it would be best if was contained on the island. He is the evil that Jacob told Richard about.

Makes ZERO sense. like zero! Desmond could go down to pull the stone so someone could kill Flocke? Ok. But if he's then mortal what risk does he pose at all? Absolutely no risk!! lol i mean what's he capable of doing as a mortal to the world?

Here's a massive plot failing imo: Flocke can't leave the Island. That much is established. So we surmised if he killed the candidates he could leave. Ehhhh no. He had motive and opportunity to do so if that were the case. So what danger did he pose? He's trapped on the island, seemingly the only way to kill him is to pull the plug/stone, which presumably is the very act that WOULD risk the fate of the world. I assume from the complete meltdown of the island that the release of magical electromagnetism could be an OOOOOOPS.

Someone have a go at rationally explaining this to me. please!!!

prinz

Melion wrote: »

Why didnt Ben go into the church?

He didn't want to leave yet. He wanted to stay with Alex and Rousseau.

astrofool

BOBBY wrote: »

lost's biggest mystery,,
how the feck did albert know how to put on his seatbelt in the airplane, the dudes a few hundred years old, i presume this was his first time on a plane, yet he ran in, sat down and put on his belt, i started roaring laughing to myself instantly !!

Richard has been off island before, and may have flown at those times.

I'm more interested in a jet engines reverse gear

Dman001 wrote: »

This is what I took from it. The light was the key to the island. Once the light went out (via pulling out the stone, ie the cork) Locke was able to leave the island, but was also able to be killed and was able to kill the protector (Jack).

Desmond was bought to the island for this reason. If something went wrong, Desmond (as he had the ability to withstand electromagnatism) could go down to the light, pull the stone and someone could then kill FLocke. This was risky as FLocke could also leave the island, so as Widmore said, it was a last resort. Ironically it probably would have worked out better if he wasn't brought to the island, as Jack wouldn't of died and it probably would of resulted in Jack and FLocke being the only two on the island, ala Jacob and MiB.

The protector of the island had to make sure the Light never goes out as FLocke could then leave the island. As we have seen, FLocke is pretty ruthless and manipulative so it would be best if was contained on the island. He is the evil that Jacob told Richard about.

But what would have happened if Flocke had got off the island? By this stage, with the cork pulled from the light, was he not just a mere mortal man? Was he still the smoke monster? Because if he was why didn't he just transform into smokie and kill Jack when they were on the edge of that cliff?