danman wrote: » I have to agree with the poster above you. And no disrespect, but driving a truck wouldn't seem to me to me to be a skilled job. You would only need to know how to drive. The only problem with this, is I know that truck driving can involve a lot of manual labour. I do think anyone who's job involves manual labour does deserve a certain premium over someone in an unskilled job that sits at a desk. That's only my personal opinion. it is very easy for some one who has never driven a truck to say that all you do is steer the thing,i have my licence over 13 years and probely cost in old money £3000 you then have licences for carrying dangerous goods add another 1000e. also a truck costs about 100k and depending on the trailer upto 80k,also as a driver you plan ahead scanning your mirrors every few secs looking at the traffic ahead etc. you also have drivers hours to contend with the roadworthy of the truck if stopped by the Gardai/RSA you could lose your licence in one go. http://www.rsa.ie/Home/upload/File/NEW_PENPOINTS_CHART_APL09.pdf i should also piont out that the majority of goods exports/imports are moved by HGV through out ireland.
mickeyk wrote: » I can't consider somebody on 35k to be low paid, perhaps if they have a giant mortgage and family etc, but that comes down to lifestyle choices. My own personal opinion is anything under 25k or so, even though a single person with no major financial commitments and a bit of common sense could easily survive on this. We have become accustomed to a lifestyle that we fooled ourselves into thinking we deserved because "sure isn't the country awash with money". I have a feeling there will be envious glances thrown the way of anybody earning 35k in future, new graduates will find that unemployment and other factors are driving down wages and it will become harder to get up to this figure, that is why we need to widen the tax net and get everybody paying tax. SW is also a problem in that for a family man it simply makes no sense whatsoever to come off the dole and take up a job for less than 40-50k, is there a country anywhere else in the world where a situation like this exists? It seems unbelievable.
irishh_bob wrote: » my sister having recently qualified as a solicitor , negotiated a salary of 31 k per year , a good deal less than what a nurse starts off on and not much more than a clerical officer
jinghong wrote: » 30k should be more than enough for a family to live comfortably on. A little thought about budgeting and 'lifestlye' design should do the trick. Outside dublin far easier to achieve this. We are planning travelling europe for 3 months in a camper and another 3 months in australia, remaining 6 months in Ireland. Total income required for 2 of us and child is 23k which will be met one of us working part time Not so long ago I went travelling for the year, did australia (bought a car and drove 30k km around it), burma, thailand, china, india, laos, and newzealand. Total cost for 2 people living like kings: 15k Don't have your thoughts formed by union propaganda and conventional wisdom Starting point is this excellent budget planner in google docs https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tJgFt0-wep-cYxIwQ6SBnUQ
RoverJames wrote: » A family, lets say two adults and two children. How is €30K/annum to provide a comfortable living to them ? Mortgage or rent of €800 month and bills of €200 a month for heating, electricity, refuse charges. That leaves €1500 a month to live on, most families would require a car also. I have also omitted to pay any PRSI or tax/levee of any description. Are you for real ??
RoverJames wrote: » How is €30K/annum to provide a comfortable living to them ?
mickeyk wrote: » hardly comfortable, but possible to live on 30k I would say.
Gurgle wrote: » Nobody ever gets sick, or goes to the dentist. Certainly a consultant is out of the question.
Gurgle wrote: » Lets also assume the kids don't have birthdays, after school activities, or christmas, won't be going to college. Schools don't send a bill every 3 weeks for computers, photocopying, books, copies, paint, crayons.
Gurgle wrote: » Clothes are forever, they grow with the child. Shoes are passed down through generations.
Gurgle wrote: » Your car doesn't need servicing, NCT or road tax.
Gurgle wrote: » Anyone want to work out what the same family of 4 would get on the dole, taking into account all the freebies from TV license to medical card?
EF wrote: » A CO earning 35,000 will have to have worked for 12 years and they wont get to 36,700 before they work 15 years. I agree it is not a bad wage, but after 15 years full time work I think it is reasonable to expect to be on a half decent wage if you are any good at your job and have put in the effort.
ZYX wrote: » Slightly off the point but something that always irritates me. Attendace with a consultant is free whether you have a medical card or not.
murphaph wrote: » That's what happens when the dept. of Education's budget goes on teachers' wages (77% I believe).
Here in berlin it is quite common for people to hand on their children's clothes and shoes, socks, underwear, everything really to a friend with a baby/child coming into that age... Back in the 80's, most men would be well able to service their own vehicle... Comparing everything to the dole only goes to prove one thing...Social Welfare benefits are too high and have been for some time. A certain amount of "getting back to basics" needs to happen in Ireland.
cson wrote: » To qualify this, I wouldn't rate clerical work as skilled - answering phones, typing letters and inputting data for the most part could be taught to anyone within 2-3 days in my opinion.
Gurgle wrote: » But there are still a lot of unavoidable costs involved in raising a family
Liam Byrne wrote: » But isn't having a family as much of a choice as having a foreign holiday or buying a new car ? And therefore "avoidable" in itself ?
nesf wrote: » You can't accidentally find yourself skiing in the Alps or sunning yourself in the Costa del Sol. Even while taking precautions you can still end up with a child you know.
Gurgle wrote: » But there are still a lot of unavoidable costs involved in raising a family, I sincerely doubt you could do it comfortably on €30k in Berlin either.
murphaph wrote: » I think you could tbh, but it would be dependent on how many kids! A single child or even 2 children should be comfortable on that sort of money in Berlin. Then again, most people don't run a car as the benefit of living in a large city with a dense population, means public transport is more than adequate for when one even needs to leave one's borough. The kindergartens and schools are all within walking distance of everyone and if not it's generally quite safe for even young children to travel on the train/bus here without fear. Of course, Germans pay more tax and their public sector is paid less, so more services are provided that would cost money from your pocket in Ireland (childcare for example is heavily subsidised). Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't done the sums yet and tbh I won't be, we want kids and if we have to scrimp by a bit to have them, then that's part of life. If people genuinely feel they can't afford kids, they should make sure they don't have them (and there are ways to be 99.9% sure you don't).
pietromas wrote: » Everybody else seems to know because they are always talking about the "low paid" workers. I want to know so I can join in the conversation. Is it different in the public and private sectors?
Tail Wagger wrote: » Low pay means, not being able to survive on what your earning from week to week. When your costs to live from week to week fall short... when you can't afford to buy your weekly shop, in the local Supermarket. When you are eating soup and potatoes for your dinner 7 days a week. When you can't let your kids go to school because you can't afford to buy their school uniforms/books/sports wear etc. When you can't give your children pocket money on the weekends, When you can't afford to purchase a bag of coal to heat your home, When you go to the local butchers looking for breast of mutton to make a stew for your Sunday dinner, When the Banks are sending you letters twice a week asking you to pay back your overdraft immediately. When the Gas Board are threatening to cut off your Gas/light. When the finance Company are looking for the very chairs your sitting on.. If I have forgotten anything else, I'm sure someone else will enlighten you... hope this might help you to define your enquiry.
mickeyk wrote: » From what I hear she is lucky, I know one experienced solicitor who is now on the dole for over a year. There is actually a thread about private sector wages being driven down on this forum. Starting salaries are definately lower now in many professions.
danman wrote: » Unless you have too big of a mortgage.
changes wrote: » There are not that many jobs in the PS that could be taught to someone in 2 or 3 days. Its funny that people think all CO's do is photocopy, stamp forms or answer phone. There are CO's in very busy offices working on software systems where errors can be very costly and wreak havoc. To say they have no responsibility is just not true. It would be interesting to see a new CO go into the salaries dept of a busy hospital or the accounts dept and leave them to their own devices after 2 or 3 days.
