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Sexual assault...but sure he's a nice lad..Mod Warning Post 275

dearg lady

I know this is a very emotive subject for both sexes, and it comes up often, but when I saw this article, I just couldn't believe it

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/1217/1224260840003.html

I didn't think this kind of thing still went on, that the victim gets judged more than the perpetrator of the crime! All I can say is fair play to her for going through with the case, knowing full well people would talk.

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[Deleted User]

hick wrote: »

that's as bad as one of those people who went up and shook his hand, you need to understand the full facts before you make any decision,

Really? Give me any hypothetical situation where it is morally conscionable, to hide a woman incapable of consent behind a dumpster. And interfere with her.

smileysurfer

hick wrote: »

that's as bad as one of those people who went up and shook his hand, you need to understand the full facts before you make any decision,

Disagree completly!
How much ''facts'' do you need? He assaulted a woman, end of!

Zulu

Fucking scumbag tbh.

And to anyone who thinks otherwise, just take one second to imagine your girlfriend/fiancé/wife/sister/mother out on a night with her friends. It incenses me beyond reason.

Howjoe1

listening to the Parish Priest on the radio made my blood boil. He was one of the 50 "men" who shook the guilty man's hand. Another dark day for the Church.

The hand shakes & hugs were organised by his Mammy.

Good ould Ireland:rolleyes:

Wibbs

Thaedydal wrote: »

He was convicted of sexaul assualt not rape, so please you want to be careful as that can be said to be defamation, none of the reporting uses the term rape.

+1. Emotive though this is folks, let's stick to the facts of the conviction and leave the conjecture behind. Thanks.

daveyboy_1ie

Assault is assault, you commit the crime you do the time. I undertsand there are always three sides to every story but noone has the right to have sex with someone against their will or sexually assault them as in this case.

There may indeed be more to the story, she wanted to at first and changed her mind, she was flirting for weeks beforehand with everyone, she slept with everyone else around so why not? i don;t know what the more to the story comment means.

She may or may not have a reputation in the town, but this does not give anyone permission to violate her rights. She was assaulted, he was found guilty, end of story.

hick

Moonbaby wrote: »

Really? Give me any hypothetical situation where it is morally conscionable, to hide a woman incapable of consent behind a dumpster. And have sex with her.

smileysurfer wrote: »

Disagree completly!
How much ''facts'' do you need? He assaulted a woman, end of!

for starters the Gardaí came upon them before he managed to rape her, thankfully, a friend sister was not that fortunate
secondly as I said in my post I don't condone this situation and like I also said don't try to say that I do
and thirdly it's more important to educate yourself on the facts so you can make an informed comment on the events, that's what I did I suggest you do the same, otherwise you are as small minded as those fools who shook his hand
Now back on topic!:mad:

Kimia

That poor woman, I feel sick just thinking about this. And turns my stomach to think of these 'middle-aged men' including the priest going up to shake his hand and hug him before he's taken away to jail.

I am trying to think of what the cryptic poster meant by the 'full story', but surely facts are facts. Even if she was hammered out of her skull, kissing 10 men in an hour, flashing her boobs and whatever else, that still doesn't give someone the right to assault her.

Who the F*CK does this 'danny' think he is? Should be chemically castrated, imo.

pookie82

hick wrote: »

and thirdly it's more important to educate yourself on the facts so you can make an informed comment on the events, that's what I did I suggest you do the same, otherwise you are as small minded as those fools who shook his hand

I agree, but I think that we can trust a court of law on this one. They heard all of the relevant facts and evidence and have come to the likeliest conclusion so I think that the time for debating his innocence is gone unless some new evidence comes to light.

Vanbis

AntiRip wrote: »

I know Danny very well and I know the victim also. If you lived in the area you'd know the full story that isn't been in the media. I am very shocked and upset with this story. It's very sad when you know the people involved.

Foley, who had been celebrating his 34th birthday on the night of the offence, had denied the charge. He told gardaí he had “found your wan” after he had gone to relieve himself near a skip at 3.50am. However CCTV footage showed him carrying her to the skip area.

He was found guilty in a court of law and was caught, even tried to lie but CCTV showed what his intentions. The girl probably rejected his advances and he took advantage or tried too.

hick

agreed the court decided that's my point
they saw all the facts and it appears it was obvious he was guilty
all I can say is thankfully he didn't get any further before the Gardaí arrived
for once the got there early enough to make a difference

Oryx

I know only the bare bones of this story, but I am more than a little intruiged as to why a community would act this way. Despite our cliched small town attitudes in Ireland, the usual reaction to any kind of sex offender is scorn and hatred. So why is this guy getting tears and sympathy? And why is this woman being 'judged' by her community, with, it seems noone on her side?

I know in a lot of cases there has been an unmentioned attitude of 'she asked for it' but it is never so publicly shown as here. This attitude is so pervasive it is why a lot of sexual assault cases go unreported. Its a sneaky hidden attitude that I have to say, as a people we all carry to some degree. If you think you are better than that, next time you see a couple of girls in bikini tops an minis falling out of a nightclub, examine the first thought that comes to mind, and see.

But like I said, its usually hidden, almost to the point that people think they dont think like that. So why is it that people have come out in this warped show of support here?

hick

Oryx wrote: »

But like I said, its usually hidden, almost to the point that people think they dont think like that. So why is it that people have come out in this warped show of support here?

Usually because a small group of morons would rather call a victim a liar rather than believe something so heinous could happen their town

smileysurfer

hick wrote: »

for starters the Gardaí came upon them before he managed to rape her, thankfully, a friend sister was not that fortunate
secondly as I said in my post I don't condone this situation and like I also said don't try to say that I do
and thirdly it's more important to educate yourself on the facts so you can make an informed comment on the events, that's what I did I suggest you do the same, otherwise you are as small minded as those fools who shook his hand
Now back on topic!:mad:

:rolleyes:
Thats exactly what I did, I have read the article and what the courts have said and that is more than enough for me to go on!!

Oryx

hick wrote: »

Usually because a small group of morons would rather call a victim a liar rather than believe something so heinous could happen their town

So why this particular set of morons? Ive just never seen this done before, and it beggars belief, really. Usually its a quiet whispering campaign, which always casts a slur on the victim, but never so directly as this.

pookie82

Oryx wrote: »

I know only the bare bones of this story, but I am more than a little intruiged as to why a community would act this way. Despite our cliched small town attitudes in Ireland, the usual reaction to any kind of sex offender is scorn and hatred. So why is this guy getting tears and sympathy? And why is this woman being 'judged' by her community, with, it seems noone on her side?

I know in a lot of cases there has been an unmentioned attitude of 'she asked for it' but it is never so publicly shown as here. This attitude is so pervasive it is why a lot of sexual assault cases go unreported. Its a sneaky hidden attitude that I have to say, as a people we all carry to some degree. If you think you are better than that, next time you see a couple of girls in bikini tops an minis falling out of a nightclub, examine the first thought that comes to mind, and see.

But like I said, its usually hidden, almost to the point that people think they dont think like that. So why is it that people have come out in this warped show of support here?

There's any manner of things at play here that we'll probably never hear about. Maybe the girl was very promiscuous around the village and this Danny guy was known as a quiet and friendly fella who did his neighbours good deeds and kept himself to himself in the public eye. Maybe there's a family history between the two or some unmentioned reason why people would assume she wanted some sort of revenge on him. All absolutely wild speculation obviously, and now irrelevant as the court has found him guilty.

What worries me most about the whole thing is the public display of unity with a convicted sex offender. Whatever their reasons, it puts out such a shockingly negative message to any girl (rural or otherwise but particularly living in that kind of setting) who might otherwise have brought a case against a man who assaulted her, in a judicial system where the odds are already stacked against you from the moment you report a sex crime. Surely if they had sympathies they could have shown them in private.

Howjoe1

Oryx wrote: »

I know only the bare bones of this story, but I am more than a little intruiged as to why a community would act this way. Despite our cliched small town attitudes in Ireland, the usual reaction to any kind of sex offender is scorn and hatred. So why is this guy getting tears and sympathy? And why is this woman being 'judged' by her community, with, it seems noone on her side?

I know in a lot of cases there has been an unmentioned attitude of 'she asked for it' but it is never so publicly shown as here. This attitude is so pervasive it is why a lot of sexual assault cases go unreported. Its a sneaky hidden attitude that I have to say, as a people we all carry to some degree. If you think you are better than that, next time you see a couple of girls in bikini tops an minis falling out of a nightclub, examine the first thought that comes to mind, and see.

But like I said, its usually hidden, almost to the point that people think they dont think like that. So why is it that people have come out in this warped show of support here?

His mammy staged it. rang all the friends and the priest that admitted he had been out of the country for years but still knew he was a good lad. The priest didn't offer ant christianity to the victim, just referred to her disparagingly as "you're one"

[Deleted User]

hick wrote: »

for starters the Gardaí came upon them before he managed to rape her, thankfully, a friend sister was not that fortunate

By this guy, or how exactly is this fact relevant.

hick wrote: »

thirdly it's more important to educate yourself on the facts so you can make an informed comment on the events, that's what I did I suggest you do the same, otherwise you are as small minded as those fools who shook his hand
Now back on topic!:mad:

My comment was directly in relation to the furthur information that this Kerryman, suggests would sway our opinions.
Information that he then admitted was small town talk, rather than fact.

Look dude if you fancy going on somekind of early morning keyboard warrior ego trip.
Chose a better subject matter.

bronte

This is absolutely disgusting. What the hell is wrong with these people?
How can they approach someone who's been assaulted sexually and ask her if she is sorry for bringing this guy to court? SORRY?
He sexually assaulted her!

A quick google has brought up that parish priest's details. He'll be getting a friendly Christmas letter from bronte demanding an explanation for his actions.

This makes me sick. :mad::mad:

AntiRip

Oryx wrote: »

So why this particular set of morons? Ive just never seen this done before, and it beggars belief, really. Usually its a quiet whispering campaign, which always casts a slur on the victim, but never so directly as this.

Guys, been from the area I would love to tell you the thoughts in these peoples heads but afraid to say it on a public forum. All I can say guys is that there is a lot more to this story. Really there is. I'm sure the full story or understanding why this has happened will come out.

amacachi

He added no reasonable man could believe a woman, who had earlier complained of feeling sick from drink, could consent to sexual activity.

Have to massively disagree with that quote or else very few people I know aren't sex offenders.

I have to admit I find it very puzzling that if he carried her to the skip area and everything how it was only assault he was convicted of. Does anyone know if intercourse took place? Very, very odd case altogether.

And the people shaking his hands, here's a thought, in our system of democracy their vote is worth as much as ours, and if you live in the East their vote is probably worth more than yours.

Wibbs

Oryx wrote: »

But like I said, its usually hidden. So why is it that people have come out in this warped show of support here?

I've been thinking similar myself. As you say usually public support of even possible sex offenders is usually nil. Indeed its one of the reasons many give for protecting the possible offender before sentence is passed as even the accusation itself carries a huge stigma(naturally).

In my humble, there are two things going on. Firstly, the small town/community attitude. The "sure he's a nice fella, dont we know him and sure you know what she's like?". With a side order of we deal with/sweep under the carpet this ourselves. That's common in small communities. Archetypes like the "lovely fella(or woman)" and the "slapper/hard man/village puff" etc are very common in small communities. That guff protected the clergy long enough too.

Secondly and more worryingly, it may be a more dangerous revolt against the notion that no one ever asks for it. A bit of "enoughs enough, will you look at what they're wearing and how these women are acting? If you walked around the town at night covered in gold chains drunk out of your head, sure you would expect to be mugged" idea.

I've heard this idea with some cases of sexual assualt/rape been spoken privately by both men and women. We're not talking the usual eejits either. I can number one law type among that number. It cant be just dismissed as the rantings of morons, even if that's the cosy idea. It seems to be an age thing too. I know one woman who would have been very reactionary with regard to any sort of sexual violation in the past, who now will say date rape is complete nonsense. This stuff going public where "upstanding members of the community" are not afraid to show support for this notion is worrying in the larger world.

fatmammycat

AntiRip wrote: »

Guys, been from the area I would love to tell you the thoughts in these peoples heads but afraid to say it on a public forum. All I can say guys is that there is a lot more to this story. Really there is. I'm sure the full story or understanding why this has happened will come out.

Unless you actually have anything to add this cryptic nonsense is totally ridiculous. What are you 'afraid' to say? And if you are 'afraid' why bother hinting at all.

Heinrich

fatmammycat wrote: »

Unless you actually have anything to add this cryptic nonsense is totally ridiculous. What are you 'afraid' to say? And if you are 'afraid' why bother hinting at all.

Troll feeding is forbidden!

Nevyn

amacachi wrote: »

Have to massively disagree with that quote or else very few people I know aren't sex offenders.

Not a comfortable idea is it?
That you know people who had sex with people who could not consent or could only give impaired consent due to being that 'out of it'.

It happens a lot more then people ever want to think about as it's not comfortable thing to contemplate esp in this country were drink is abused so much.

Bottom line is if someone has had too much to drink so that they can not properly consent and someone is aware of this and takes advantage then they are committing non consensual sexual acts ranging from groping to rape.

This guy was a bouncer, I am sure he's seen women in various states of intoxication over the years to know better, or maybe this was the first time he'd be caught, that is something I find uncomfortable to think about.

smileysurfer

AntiRip wrote: »

Guys, been from the area I would love to tell you the thoughts in these peoples heads but afraid to say it on a public forum. All I can say guys is that there is a lot more to this story. Really there is. I'm sure the full story or understanding why this has happened will come out.

Thats not in the least bit helpful, in fact I think its going to frustrate people more. :rolleyes:

Oryx

Wibbs wrote:

It cant be just dismissed as the rantings of morons,

I totally agree with this, and its a scary prospect. These people have set a new standard of behaviour in this kind of case that weve never seen before. Up to now Joe Public has thought like them behind closed doors, but never gone into a courthouse in a show of solidarity with a criminal. Even if the 'real story' gets out, as AntiRip alludes to it, what will that do? Paint this girl even blacker than she has been? Give the guy a halo? Whatever justification it gives will not help any other girl who has been assaulted and has to decide what to do next.

morninwood

Thaedydal wrote: »

Not a comfortable idea is it?
That you know people who had sex with people who could not consent or could only give impaired consent due to being that 'out of it'.

It happens a lot more then people ever want to think about as it's not comfortable thing to contemplate esp in this country were drink is abused so much.

Bottom line is if someone has had too much to drink so that they can not properly consent and someone is aware of this and takes advantage then they are committing non consensual sexual acts ranging from groping to rape.

This guy was a bouncer, I am sure he's seen women in various states of intoxication over the years to know better, or maybe this was the first time he'd be caught, that is something I find uncomfortable to think about.

this actually made me think and it is shocking. i am rapist and raped. had a lot of good nights out and woke up in the morning lying beside someone i didn't know, asking myself 'WTF', regretting the whole thing. same goes for the ladies lying there in bed with me i guess.

amacachi

Thaedydal wrote: »

Not a comfortable idea is it?
That you know people who had sex with people who could not consent or could only give impaired consent due to being that 'out of it'.

It happens a lot more then people ever want to think about as it's not comfortable thing to contemplate esp in this country were drink is abused so much.

Bottom line is if someone has had too much to drink so that they can not properly consent and someone is aware of this and takes advantage then they are committing non consensual sexual acts ranging from groping to rape.

This guy was a bouncer, I am sure he's seen women in various states of intoxication over the years to know better, or maybe this was the first time he'd be caught, that is something I find uncomfortable to think about.

The "impaired consent" is where I'm fairly sure you and I disagree, I feel sick most nights I'm out and under that particular definition pretty much all my male and female mates have been sexually assaulted or raped. To me anyway feeling sick at some point in a night isn't enough to say that consent was impaired later on.

On this case though, like I said, there's a few things that really puzzle me about it. Though in fairness if I was the family of the victim I'd be annoyed he got as long a sentence as he did.

ash23

This has actually given me huge food for thought.
I live in a rural town but I'm not from here originally. Not many people would know me. I'm a single mum, have been with a few guys here casually enough, I'm a wee bit of a party animal as in I'm out drinking most weekends.
I rarely drink so much that I can't remember what has happened or pass out but it has happened to me once or twice.

I just know that if I were in this position, where I drank so much I pretty much passed out in a club, was carried out by some local bloke who proceeded to strip me and assault me out beside a skip, I would feel violated and I would want this person to be prosecuted.

But I can also see that I would be the one portrayed as the bad guy. Sure, I'm out drinking every weekend with a child at home. I've been with him and him, what a slut I am. And sure, young Johnny down the road is well known and plays GAA for the local team, works with his daddy on the farm, is a credit to his mammy and is a good looking guy to boot. He wouldn't need to assualt someone. That I should be lucky that someone like him wants me........

Jesus, it makes my skin crawl to think of it. But thats exactly how it would be :mad::(