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Protest over public sector pay

baaaa

Just throwing it out there,anybody fancy protesting about the excessive rates of public sector pay and their refusal to take the neccessary cuts?
The unemployed should be marching,it's they who will suffer the cuts if the public sector won't climb down(assuming the country is still running).

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baaaa

Just to clear this up,the public sector fought tooth and nail over the first cuts.They have refused to be part of the solution from the start.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

Thought not.

Indeed,why exactly should I?You do know that I'm advocating cuts?

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

Just to clear this up,the public sector fought tooth and nail over the first cuts.They have refused to be part of the solution from the start.

Are you saying if someone came in and told you to take a pay cut because they banks suck, that you'd be happy about it because you're "part of the solution"?
Yes they fought, then they failed, and then (the most noble of all) they pretty much shut the **** up about it until the second round started to be discussed.

Maybe if they were louder and more annoying about it people might actually have realised that they did take a hit I guess.

hoody

Explain why a public sector worker on, say, €25000 a year should pay more tax than a private sector worker on the same money.

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

Are you saying if someone came in and told you to take a pay cut because they banks suck, that you'd be happy about it because you're "part of the solution"?
Yes they fought, then they failed, and then (the most noble of all) they pretty much shut the **** up about it until the second round started to be discussed.

Maybe if they were louder and more annoying about it people might actually have realised that they did take a hit I guess.

Really big sigh.
The country takes in 40 apples but eats 60.
This is why the public sector has to take a cut,the banks is sooo like 2 years ago.

Doc

baaaa wrote: »

Well firstly the banks are bust so you're previous suggestion of getting the money back off them is not good.
And I'm just after realising that this question is the same so I'm not gonna bother.

What is wrong with my question? At what level do you think they should accept their pay being cut. A 10% cut 15%, 20%,30% ? Since you think they get payed too much what do you think?

As an aside I do not work in the public sector.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

Explain why a public sector worker on, say, €25000 a year should pay more tax than a private sector worker on the same money.

1.Because the vast majority are overpaid relative to european counterparts
2.Because the vast majority have security of tenure and pensions

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

Really big sigh.
The country takes in 40 apples but eats 60.
This is why the public sector has to take a cut,the banks is sooo like 2 years ago.

I didn't say we didn't need money. But from your posts here you seem to think that the PS have it good, get "excessive" pay rates (your words in OP) and have refused to take a pay cut.
I'm saying that this isn't true, and that it's not just as simple as "Take money from them, they can afford it", when a lot of them are struggling to get by after the last pay cut they took.
More importantly, I'm saying that it's stupid to expect them to actually be happy or accepting of a pay cut, which you seem to think they should be.

Avoided the question in my post btw

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

I didn't mention whether or not it was needed, that's a whole different discussion.

No.It's not,it's this discussion and it's not just "needed",there is no choice,the country will collapse if the cuts aren't made.

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

No.It's not,it's this discussion and it's not just "needed",there is no choice,the country will collapse if the cuts aren't made.

Post edited (the first sentence of it, that is, only part you concerned yourself with) to reflect this then.

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

But from your posts here you seem to think that the PS have it good, get "excessive" pay rates (your words in OP) and have refused to take a pay cut.
I'm saying that this isn't true,

Sigh again,this is true.The public sector is overpaid relative to their european counterparts and yes they refused to take the first cuts also.The talks broke down and it had to be forced upon them as I recall.
Stop posting wrong things.

hoody

baaaa wrote: »

1.Because the vast majority are overpaid relative to european counterparts
2.Because the vast majority have security of tenure and pensions

So a public sector worker on €25000 is overpaid and a private sector worker on the same isn't?

Security of tenure would only apply to permanent public sector workers, who would have been hired before the current embargo - when anyone could apply to work in the sector.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

So a public sector worker on €25000 is overpaid and a private sector worker on the same isn't?

No.No.No.An Irish public sector worker is overpaid relative to his/european counterparts.
An Irish public sector worker earns 5 apples a week ....

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

Security of tenure would only apply to permanent public sector workers, who would have been hired before the current embargo - when anyone could apply to work in the sector.

Yes it would,your point?

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

Sigh again,this is true.The public sector is overpaid relative to their european counterparts and yes they refused to take the first cuts also.The talks broke down and it had to be forced upon them as I recall.
Stop posting wrong things.

The Irish private sector gets paid more than the rest of Europe too, strange how this is never brought up.
We're first in income in the EU after taxes (as in, take home pay, the type that matters), but only 9th in gross pay (as of just a year or 2 ago).

Surely this begs the question of why people aren't suggesting a huge tax increase for everyone, and why the public sector has to take such a huge share of it?
Both sectors are, as you put it, "overpaid relative to their european counterparts".

TomCo

I've worked in the public sector more than the private sector.
The pay isnt exactly amazing.

hoody

baaaa wrote: »

No.No.No.An Irish public sector worker is overpaid relative to his/european counterparts.
An Irish public sector worker earns 5 apples a week ....

That doesn't explain why a public sector worker on €25000 or any amount should pay more tax than a private sector worker on the same amount. And surely, paying any worker in fruit ought to be a last resort

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

The Irish private sector gets paid more than the rest of Europe too, strange how this is never brought up.
We're first in income in the EU after taxes (as in, take home pay, the type that matters), but only 9th in gross pay (as of just a year or 2 ago).

Surely this begs the question of why people aren't suggesting a huge tax increase for everyone, and why the public sector has to take such a huge share of it?
Both sectors are, as you put it, "overpaid relative to their european counterparts".

God love you,are you really giving me figures about the private sector from 2 years ago ,ie the peak.
Do you see any problem with this?

Also there is no question begging,very basic economics says that increasing the tax burden on the general population will only hasten the decrease in economic activity.
This is very basic stuff.I love the way people that are trying to blank cuts are completely oblivious to it.

baaaa

hoody wrote: »

And surely, paying any worker in fruit ought to be a last resort

heh heh missed that

baaaa

TomCo wrote: »

I've worked in the public sector more than the private sector.
The pay isnt exactly amazing.

Tom,not to put too fine a point on it but I couldn't give a sh**e about how you or anybody feels about the rate pay,the country simply doesn't have it anymore.
What part of that is so hard to understand?

Pygmalion

baaaa wrote: »

God love you,are you really giving me figures about the private sector from 2 years ago ,ie the peak.
Do you see any problem with this?

I was highlighting our low taxes compared to much of Europe (at the very least 8 countries, realistically quite a bit more).

Yeah taking away people's money decreases economic activity. But we're going to take away several billion euro from people no matter what way we do it.
Or would taking the money away from public sector employees not decrease economic activity for some reason? If this is the case, please explain, I'd like to hear this.

Doc

baaaa wrote: »

God love you,are you really giving me figures about the private sector from 2 years ago ,ie the peak.
Do you see any problem with this?

Also there is no question begging,very basic economics says that increasing the tax burden on the general population will only hasten the decrease in economic activity.
This is very basic stuff.I love the way people that are trying to blank cuts are completely oblivious to it.

So your solution is that we just take it out of one sector of the public instead of spreading it across all of the population by reducing the pay for the public sector.

Why should they be hit harder then anyone else?

baaaa

Pygmalion wrote: »

I was highlighting our low taxes compared to much of Europe (at the very least 8 countries, realistically quite a bit more).

Yeah taking away people's money decreases economic activity. But we're going to take away several billion euro from people no matter what way we do it.
Or would taking the money away from public sector employees not decrease economic activity for some reason? If this is the case, please explain, I'd like to hear this.

Well thanks for highlighting our low taxes,that was nice of you.I don't know why you did but I don't want you to tell me why either cause it'll just be some nonsensical tangent.
Now look here,it's simple.The public sector is 350,000 people,the population is 4 million.
Now,if taxing people is bad for the economy,should you?;
A.tax everyone or
B.tax the public sector
Look beyond your nose,please.

RedNiamhy

If you want to victimise one section of the workforce, why not encourage the government to tax bank workers more?
It WAS the banks that got us into this mess, so make them do their bit to help the economy.

themont85

hoody wrote: »

Explain why a public sector worker on, say, €25000 a year should pay more tax than a private sector worker on the same money.

Guranteed pension.

If you are talking about a pay cut, that is not a tax. Losing your job isn't taxable either. Their non existant taxes now gone paid for the PS though.

hoody wrote: »

So a public sector worker on €25000 is overpaid and a private sector worker on the same isn't?

Joe is working at a medium sized office staff. His pay is in the region of 40,000 per annum. He has worked their or 10 years. He has paid payed out of his salary towards his pension since he started. Last year his pension went down the toilet and is now worth only a fraction it was before. In March he was reduced to a three day week because him working five days a week is no longer viable for the company. 2 weeks ago he found out his company was no longer viable and is to close due to heavy debts. He is now on social welfare for the forseeable future.

Mary works in the civil service and earns 40,000 per annum. She has for 10 years and will receive a solid pension upon retirement. She was dissapointed that the Government decided to impose a levy on her pension and upon hearing of further 'cuts' to her pay is shocked and angry. Her employer (the Govt) is in serious debt. She still works five days a week. She still has a job.

The Private Sector reacts to market forces. The Public Sector doesn't in good and bad times (benchmarking was supposed to make up for that, wee bit too generous though).

Raze_them_all

If this new pay cut goes ahead, members of the public service (for example Prison officers) Will have have taken about a 20% pay cut including the raise they were supposed to get this year.

If anyone in the private secter had to do that there would be uproar.

And no I'm not in the public sector

baaaa

Doc wrote: »

So your solution is that we just take it out of one sector of the public instead of spreading it across all of the population by reducing the pay for the public sector.

Why should they be hit harder then anyone else?

Why do you say the public sector is being hit harder?
It's very silly and a wild lie.You do know that the private sector has lost 300k jobs and increasing yeah?
You do know that those surviving have taken far bigger cuts already than you have?
You guys have lost no jobs and had a cut of about 7% average and you're whinging about being hit harder than anyone else?You should be ashamed(of foolishness and selfishness)

themont85

Raze_them_all wrote: »

If this new pay cut goes ahead, members of the public service (for example Prison officers) Will have have taken about a 20% pay cut including the raise they were supposed to get this year.

If anyone in the private secter had to do that there would be uproar.

And no I'm not in the public sector

LOL.

3 day week.

Place closes up, no job.

Plenty of pay cuts mate, called market forces.

Just because the Private sectors don;t have a cartel by in large in operation to mouth off doesn't mean there is no cuts.

And my GF is Public Sector btw.

Raze_them_all

themont85 wrote: »

LOL.

3 day week.

Place closes up, no job.

Plenty of pay cuts mate, called market forces.

Just because the Private sectors don;t have a cartel by in large in operation to mouth off doesn't mean there is no cuts.

And my GF is Public Sector btw.

0 day week, had to move back home. Worked on sites, Currently training to be a personal trainer cos I can't find any work as a gym trainer.

I don't begrudge anyone in the public sector, Deal with half the crap they have to, I doubt it's to often you have to deal with half the crap like the police, nurses, Po's and firemen do

baaaa

Raze_them_all wrote: »

If this new pay cut goes ahead, members of the public service (for example Prison officers) Will have have taken about a 20% pay cut including the raise they were supposed to get this year.

If anyone in the private secter had to do that there would be uproar.

And no I'm not in the public sector

What planet do you live on?Over 300,000 have lost their jobs already,the rest have taken cuts,many up to 20%.

And you're still working things out in terms of the lost pay raise!!!!Ha f****g ha the countrys going bust and you're still calculating how much you lost by not getting last raise.Bad joke.I'm off down the shop for a few mins.