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Flora and other spreads - Why to avoid

miss.piggy

Maybe it has been posted on here before but I would really like to tell everyone to AVOID Flora and other similar products. You are far better off with butter.
I have always avoided flora and the like just because I didn't like the look of the ingredients list and felt that butter (a natural porduct) had to be preferable to man made crap.
Anyway I recently read a book about the causes of cancer and it explained in scientific terms the reasons why butter is indeed better!
Basically, the ideal balance of omega 6 : omega 3 in the body and in the diet should be 1:1. The author of the book I read believes that the foods we eat today are upsetting this balance whereby we are taking in much more omega 6 than omega 3. He belives that this is one of the main causes of obesity and cancer!! If you look at the back of a tub of flora you will see that the balance of omega 6 : omega 3 is about 6 : 1.
By the way most of the meat we eat today comes from animals which no longer forage and eat grass but instead are fed corn. This has lead to the same imbalance of omega 6 : omega 3 in meat! The author of the book recommends grass fed meat or at least meat from animals which have had their diet supplemented with linseed.
It just infuriates me to think that the big food companies get away with advertising which convinces so many people to eat flora and other crap.
People should be aware that food is big business and you should not believe what you hear. You need to do your own research and stick to as natural a diet as possible!

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Eviledna

you should not believe what you hear

Or read, sometimes?;)

It really depends from what perspective you are coming from. From a saturated fat perspective, low-in-saturates spreads are a better idea.

Because one author claims that he believes that an omega ratio causes obesity and cancer does not necessarily make it so. There are hundreds of studies with confliciting messages regarding this and it just bakes my noodle when authors come out with catch-all statements such as "x+y gives cancer".
In who? - What age range/ethnicity/gender
What type of cancer?
Based on what empirical scientific findings?

Sweeping statements sell books. It is of course good advice to eat natural, but there are so many connotations to even the word natural, (organic,non processed etc?) that you could spend your life's work on it, and in the end die from stress induced cancer instead.

MoominPapa

Newsflash: Butter is a man made product.

I avoid Flora and other such products because they taste like sh1te.

rubadub

Eviledna wrote: »

It really depends from what perspective you are coming from. From a saturated fat perspective, low-in-saturates spreads are a better idea.

Yes, there is loads of conflicting reports, some have definite vested interests behind them. I use butter and more recently coconut oil which is extremely high in saturated fat, 90%+. Coconut oil is solid at room temp, I just spread it on like butter.

Trans fats are the ones I try to avoid. A lot of the low fat spreads are just oils, gelatine and water, your toast goes soggy when it melts, it would be cheaper to spray it with water and put a tiny bit of butter on!

miss.piggy

Moomin Papa - i never said butter wasn't man made!! I said it is "natural" i.e. it is made using only one natural ingredient - cow's milk. Now of course there are the same problems with milk from cow's fed corn based feeds etc. but I still think it is preferable health wise to flora.

Eviledna - If you read the book I was talking about you would see how the author comes up with this theory using lots of research, experiments etc. etc. If you don't believe it that's absolutely fine!

I just wrote this post to get people thinking about products they buy and eat because advertising has led them to believe they are "healthy". I consider myself quite good at distinguishing between crap studies and research and studies etc. that have some merit and truth is them. I can't remember the exact name of the book but I will post it on here tomorrow.

Finally - You are assuming that saturated fat is bad for your health - again some people believe that this is a myth big food companies would like us all to believe

corkcomp

op, is there any possibility that you simply "prefer" the taste of butter and are just trying to justify not eating flora? The flora light I sometimes use has less than half the calories that butter contains and I would find it hard to overlook this, especially when I like the taste ... No matter what anyone tells you, real butter will not help you much if trying to lose body fat!

slightly OT, but dairygold light and a few other speads seem to have a totally different ratio of omega 3 to 6 compared to flora?

miss.piggy

Corkcomp - when choosing food I tend to look at the overall characteristics and not just the number of calories it has! For example I eat avocados, fish oils, nuts, seeds etc. all of which are high in calories. So no I'm not trying to justify not eating flora - I don't eat it because I don't think it's any good for me!

Eviledna

If you read the book I was talking about you would see how the author comes up with this theory using lots of research, experiments etc. etc. If you don't believe it that's absolutely fine! I just wrote this post to get people thinking about products they buy and eat because advertising has led them to believe they are "healthy". I consider myself quite good at distinguishing between crap studies and research and studies etc. that have some merit and truth is them. I can't remember the exact name of the book but I will post it on here tomorrow.

I guess what I was trying to say is that if you have to believe in it at all, then the case is not made scientifically. Basically there is so much conflicting data on this, to choose one side or the other is an exercise in belief, or influence by propaganda, in either case.
Don't get me wrong, I think butter is lovely, and when I bake I use nothing else. When I'm having a sandwich I use flora lite, purely for the low calorie aspect. I am under no illusion that either are particularly good for me. Neither would be preferable from a health point of view, as they are an extra dose of fat where we don't need it. Sandwiches can be made without them. Most of us choose on a measure of taste versus calories, whichever perspective we come from.
The book you mentioned was written to make a profit, nothing else. As much as revenue is generated from false advertising, it is also generated from false prophets of food science, claiming the be-all and end-all of of "what gives you cancer" or "what makes you fat". The truth being is that we don't know the definitive answers to these questions, and in the simplification of the scientific studies done on these issues, there is always key information left out such as variables in the studies, mitigating circumstances etc, in order to sell a book to lay people.

IMO, it's propaganda either way. I try to listen to neither.:)

miss.piggy

Eviledna

Thanks for your replies.
I certainly didn't post this topic to get into an argument with you or anyone else

I agree in part with what you are saying about propaganda etc. but I think that people should research these things and all the information out there for themselves and in the end make a decision on what to eat/ what way to live. I think this is preferable to blindly following what the all powerful global organisations tell you.

Eviledna

Jeepers Miss Piggy, I definitely am not arguing with you!:)

My comments are all in the interest of debate, it's an excellent topic for debate and thanks for starting a thread about it!

It's just something I feel strongly about, I have a scientific background and I see people blindly swallowing propaganda from both sides, and as I said it bakes my noodle.
But it's something that needs to be debated as it's an area that catch-all statements are paraded as gospel every day, and it is so hard for people to know what's safe to put in their mouths. And at the end that is exactly what they want...fear, the biggest motivator to buy!

The ethics of advertising and food have a very long way to go before we can believe any of it. As I said earlier, if we were to worry about every statement made, that alone would send us to an early grave!

implausible

Matter of interest: is it In Defence of Food by Michael Pollan that you're reading?

El_Dangeroso

rubadub wrote: »

Yes, there is loads of conflicting reports, some have definite vested interests behind them. I use butter and more recently coconut oil which is extremely high in saturated fat, 90%+. Coconut oil is solid at room temp, I just spread it on like butter.

Trans fats are the ones I try to avoid. A lot of the low fat spreads are just oils, gelatine and water, your toast goes soggy when it melts, it would be cheaper to spray it with water and put a tiny bit of butter on!

Fair play to you if you can eat coconut oil on toast.

I bought some but have no idea how anyone eats it, tastes like aftersun lotion to me..in fact I think it's good for that

cnocbui

Eviledna wrote: »

It's just something I feel strongly about, I have a scientific background and I see people blindly swallowing propaganda from both sides, and as I said it bakes my noodle.

My wife has a science background and has researched the topic quite bit. She would agree with most of what Miss Piggy reported except for the grain fed beef bit. I think that pertains to the US mostly, here in Ireland we are lucky enough the cows are fed on grass.

Hydrogenated oils and fats should be avoided at all costs. Saturated fats are what people should eat, not poly-unsaturated ones.

MoominPapa Newsflash: Butter is a man made product.

Butter is derived by man, but no part of it is 'made' by him, not even the salt.

Stella89

Aren't alot of the margarines nowadays trans free ? or is it just clever marketing giving the impression that this is the case ?

Someone posted here before that if you leave a tub of flora/margarine out in the open , the flies won't even go near it :O

El_Dangeroso

There's a lot of studies on diets high in Omega 6, including many reviews of the Isreali paradox, the fact that the heart disease rate in isreal is really high despite really low saturated fat intake. Their diet is really high in PUFA.

Another study was done on mice bred to be susceptable to skin cancer.

They fed one group a lot of linoleic acid (omega 6) and one group saturated fat (coconut oil) and placed them under UV lights.

The mice that were fed the linoleic acid got skin cancer, the ones that were fed saturated fat did not.

Industrially extracted vegetable oils have an omega 6 content that can't be matched by any food in nature. We only started consuming it in the last century so it's unlikely our bodies have adapted to eating it.

jam_mac_jam

I try not to eat Flora or butter, I dont think either are great for you, if I am going to treat myself I would rather have a piece of choclate than either. If you are watching your weight you shouldnt be eating either. Hummus on the bread is the answer or maybe a little bit of jam.

Stella89

On a related theme , cooking oils .

http://www.truthaboutabs.com/unhealthy-vs-healthy-cooking-oils.html

Stella89

Just looking at the lidl margarine that I buy because it's the cheapest .

Everywhere from the top , side , back of carton is telling you why it so good for you . I am sure this is the same for all other brands too .

High in essential polyunasturates
A good source of Vitamins A & D
Rich in Vitamin E
Rich in folic acid and vitamins B6 + B12
Rich in Omega 6
Low in trans

"Contains Vitamins A & D,Antioxidant Vitamin E and Polyunsaturates which help keep your body healthy."

Would it be fair to say that any product that needs to plaster everywhere on it why it is good for you, should set alarm bells ringing ?

El_Dangeroso

I lost weight eating lots of butter so I don't think that it impedes weightloss by itself, usually what you put the butter on is far more relevant.

Unless of course you sit down to a bowl of butter with a spoon, in which case calories should be the least of your worries :pac:

Re: margarine, those vitamins are all added after processing, just skip the hydrogenated fats and take a multivitamin.

Plus discovered a rather disturbing fact today that margarine is grey. They bleach it white and add yellow colouring.. bleugh.

If your concerned about sat fats, then fine eschew butter, but for the sake of your health don't replace it with frankenfoods full of chemicals that even a rat won't eat.

corkcomp

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

I lost weight eating lots of butter so I don't think that it impedes weightloss by itself, usually what you put the butter on is far more relevant.

Unless of course you sit down to a bowl of butter with a spoon, in which case calories should be the least of your worries :pac:

Re: margarine, those vitamins are all added after processing, just skip the hydrogenated fats and take a multivitamin.

Plus discovered a rather disturbing fact today that margarine is grey. They bleach it white and add yellow colouring.. bleugh.

If your concerned about sat fats, then fine eschew butter, but for the sake of your health don't replace it with frankenfoods full of chemicals that even a rat won't eat.

i guess it depends how much you use, I use prob around 50g (minimum) per day of flora or butter if no flora available and if I were a sedentary middle aged woman (i.e. around 1200 cals per day maintenance) I couldnt justify taking in a third of that from butter, but each to their own !! we all know trans fats are bad so avoid cheap spreads (i.e. some own brand ones i wont mention) .. IMO dairygold light is the best of lower calorie spreads .. or better still use soft chese (phily) as an alternative as its great melted over veg etc too

El_Dangeroso

corkcomp wrote: »

i guess it depends how much you use, I use prob around 50g (minimum) per day of flora or butter if no flora available and if I were a sedentary middle aged woman (i.e. around 1200 cals per day maintenance) I couldnt justify taking in a third of that from butter, but each to their own !! we all know trans fats are bad so avoid cheap spreads (i.e. some own brand ones i wont mention) .. IMO dairygold light is the best of lower calorie spreads .. or better still use soft chese (phily) as an alternative as its great melted over veg etc too

Isn't dairygold made with made with butter and vegetable oil? What have they replaced the fat calories to make it 'light'? Chemicals more than likely.

I just find it odd since you counselled me against sausages for all the rubbishy chemicals they contain (I have almost completely cut down too, barring the odd indulgence of a Saturday morn

)

That 50g of that spread has a Omega 6:3 ratio of 20:1, it's universally acknowledged the ratio to maintain health is closer to 1:1. As omega 3 and 6 compete on the same metabolic pathway, and 6 is more dominant, too much omega 6 will reduce the bodies ability to utilise omega 3, leading to a whole host of health implications. If you have 30g of fishoil a day, then it balances out.

Along with the fact that Omega 6 promotes inflammation and oxidises incredibly easily, and oxidised fat is the exact opposite of an anti-oxidants that we keep getting advised are so good for us.

Avacadoes make a delicious spread or unsweetened peanut butter, but vegetable oils are a really unhealthy food.

corkcomp

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Isn't dairygold made with made with butter and vegetable oil? What have they replaced the fat calories to make it 'light'? Chemicals more than likely.

I just find it odd since you counselled me against sausages for all the rubbishy chemicals they contain (I have almost completely cut down too, barring the odd indulgence of a Saturday morn )

That 50g of that spread has a Omega 6:3 ratio of 20:1, it's universally acknowledged the ratio to maintain health is closer to 1:1. As omega 3 and 6 compete on the same metabolic pathway, and 6 is more dominant, too much omega 6 will reduce the bodies ability to utilise omega 3, leading to a whole host of health implications. If you have 30g of fishoil a day, then it balances out.

Along with the fact that Omega 6 promotes inflammation and oxidises incredibly easily, and oxidised fat is the exact opposite of an anti-oxidants that we keep getting advised are so good for us.

Avacadoes make a delicious spread or unsweetened peanut butter, but vegetable oils are a really unhealthy food.

of course the better choice would be neither butter or spreads but my HDL to LDL ratio is right where it should be now and I believe this is largely due to cutting down on saturated fats .. oh and trust me, you are far better off without the sausages for a whole load of reasons (the hormones and antibiotics injected into pigs is only half the problem, the fact sausages are only made up of about 50 - 60% pork is an entirely different story!) if i had to chose between excess omega 6 consumption and sausages there would be no contest!

soundsham

miss.piggy wrote: »

Eviledna

Thanks for your replies.
I certainly didn't post this topic to get into an argument with you or anyone else
I agree in part with what you are saying about propaganda etc. but I think that people should research these things and all the information out there for themselves and in the end make a decision on what to eat/ what way to live. I think this is preferable to blindly following what the all powerful global organisations tell you.

whats the big secret about naming whatever book your reading then at least someone who has or wishes to read it could see where your coming from.............

or maybe you work for kerrygold

cnocbui

Anyone wishing to get the low down on fats and oils should have a look at this:

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html

It is notable that the author was highlighting the dangers of trans-fats a decade ago, whereas it is only very recently that the dangers have come to be wore widely accepted.

That whole site is worth a look as it has a wealth of information:

http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm

jam_mac_jam

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Isn't dairygold made with made with butter and vegetable oil? What have they replaced the fat calories to make it 'light'? Chemicals more than likely.

I just find it odd since you counselled me against sausages for all the rubbishy chemicals they contain (I have almost completely cut down too, barring the odd indulgence of a Saturday morn )

That 50g of that spread has a Omega 6:3 ratio of 20:1, it's universally acknowledged the ratio to maintain health is closer to 1:1. As omega 3 and 6 compete on the same metabolic pathway, and 6 is more dominant, too much omega 6 will reduce the bodies ability to utilise omega 3, leading to a whole host of health implications. If you have 30g of fishoil a day, then it balances out.

Along with the fact that Omega 6 promotes inflammation and oxidises incredibly easily, and oxidised fat is the exact opposite of an anti-oxidants that we keep getting advised are so good for us.

Avacadoes make a delicious spread or unsweetened peanut butter, but vegetable oils are a really unhealthy food.

Is this all vegetable oils very unhealthy? Would olive oil be included in that?
Thanks by the way for the information, interesting, I will have to read up on this.

miss.piggy

soundsham wrote: »

whats the big secret about naming whatever book your reading then at least someone who has or wishes to read it could see where your coming from.............

or maybe you work for kerrygold

Sorry I haven't had access to the internet for the last couple of days.
I'm glad to see my post has stimulated some debate.

The book I'm reading is Anti-cancer a new way of life by Dr. David Servan-Schreiber

cnocbui

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is this all vegetable oils very unhealthy? Would olive oil be included in that?
Thanks by the way for the information, interesting, I will have to read up on this.

From the above link I provided:

Olive Oil contains 75% oleic acid, the stable monounsaturated fat, along with 13% saturated fat, 10% omega-6 linoleic acid and 2% omega-3 linolenic acid. The high percentage of oleic acid makes olive oil ideal for salads and for cooking at moderate temperatures. Extra virgin olive oil is also rich in antioxidants. It should be cloudy, indicating that it has not been filtered, and have a golden yellow color, indicating that it is made from fully ripened olives. Olive oil has withstood the test of time; it is the safest vegetable oil you can use, but don't overdo. The longer chain fatty acids found in olive oil are more likely to contribute to the buildup of body fat than the short- and medium-chain fatty acids found in butter, coconut oil or palm kernel oil.

rubadub

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Isn't dairygold made with made with butter and vegetable oil? What have they replaced the fat calories to make it 'light'? Chemicals more than likely.

I mentioned this earlier, usually water & gelatine, or water and other thickeners, better & cheaper to put a small bit of butter on and run your toast under the tap or spray with water!

El_Dangeroso

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is this all vegetable oils very unhealthy? Would olive oil be included in that?
Thanks by the way for the information, interesting, I will have to read up on this.

Olive oil and avacado oils are fruit oils and are really high in Oleic acid with is monounsaturated and good for the heart.

Cold pressed virgin seed oils like sunflower are ok as they are relatively high in oleic acid too. But they have to be cold pressed virgin oils in a dark brown bottle as the Polyfats in them oxidise quite easily. Also don't fry with them but they are fine for dressing salads or making mayo.

The one's you have to watch for are the industrially extracted oils, such as corn oil, rapeseed, sunflower and soybean. The label regulations don't require the naming of which oil so normally state 'vegetable oil' on the ingredients list.

I sent an email to hellmans and they told me it is made with genetically modified soybean oil. Have been making my own mayo ever since from mild olive oil.