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Romanians being forced home yay or nay?

Irishcrx

So according to the news, 70 + of the Romanians which have sustained abuse in th enorth are now flying home, whats peoples opinions? I for one don't see it as a really bad thing, I don't like them outstraight, i've had them attempting to rob me before, begging on corners every where I look, never working, raping the government for anything they can. Good ridance I say. Maybe the north are on to a way of getting them out. However I don't condole them being outright assaulted.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0626/racism.html

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0ubliette

Jakkass wrote: »

No, I think it's a terrible idea. I am good friends with someone from Romania, and I think that ethnic / racial discrimination is something that we should be past in the 21st century.

Again, youre probably friends with ROMANIANS, not roma.
Romanians, fine. But im gonna echo the sentiments of most people so far and say that ROMA, are NOT welcome. 13 of them live in ONE house on my road, and to say they treat the place look like a dump is an understatement.
If they ever want respect (which im sure they dont want and could care less about) they should maybe try not treating whatever country they currently live in like a ****hole and having zero respect for indigenous people/property

Euro_Kraut

Unless you personally know the 70 people (including a week old child) and have had bad experiences with them than wanting them to leave is simply racist.

If you have had bad experiece with other people who happen to share the same ethnicty - than holding a grudge against those people as individauls. To hold grudes to against an entire group of people is simply ignorant.

annabellee77

For people who just can't comprehend the difference between Romanians and Roma Gypsies - look at it this way, it's like Irish travellers emigrated, got a really bad reputation abroad the same as they have here (deserved or not is another thread), were known as "Irish" and every time we went abroad were classed in same bracket.... Now can you imagine the reaction!!!

Use your intelligence people!!! (assuming there is some!)

philologos

I'm quite honestly amazed at how many people have applauded the Northern government for insisting that these Romanian people who were kicked out of their homes by Loyalists should leave Northern Ireland because they were abused for their ethnicity. I think it's a great shame that this happened.

Do people honestly think it is right that these people are being sent to Romania because they were abused and kicked out of their homes?

Nice to know that the churches are all united against this disgrace of an event:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0618/breaking6.htm
http://www.presbyterianireland.org/News/news2009/news0684.html

N.B - I couldn't care whether they are Roma or Romanian, in a freedom loving Western society all people should have equal opportunity if they are given permission to live in a certain country no matter what colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation and so on.

annabellee77

Jakkass wrote: »

N.B - I couldn't care whether they are Roma or Romanian, in a freedom loving Western society all people should have equal opportunity if they are given permission to live in a certain country no matter what creed, colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation and so on.

+1 well said

Just to clarify my last post wasn't implying that I thought they SHOULD have gone through this. Just so stupid some people can't seem to make the distinction between Romanian and Roma

briano

Holy ****, there was me thinking I was going to boards.ie, when I seemed to have ended up on stormfront.

0ubliette

Jakkass wrote: »

N.B - I couldn't care whether they are Roma or Romanian, in a freedom loving Western society all people should have equal opportunity if they are given permission to live in a certain country no matter what creed, colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation and so on.

Theres a massive difference between discriminating against someone solely down to skin colour or sexual preference, something nobody can make a decision about and is simply born with, or discriminating against people who actively make the choice to beg/steal for a living, have babies solely because the Romanian government gives them an allowance for every child they have, live in filth, have no respect for either their own property or the property of those around them, and have no intention of working. Im sorry but i couldnt give a **** if youre white, black, green, or what, but if thats the reason youre coming to this country, you shouldnt be let in to do whatever you like.

Honestly, do you live near any roma? and im asking this in all seriouness. Because i find it hard to imagine that anyone could live near them and NOT be a bit prejudiced against them.

Davei141

Jakkass wrote: »

N.B - I couldn't care whether they are Roma or Romanian, in a freedom loving Western society all people should have equal opportunity if they are given permission to live in a certain country no matter what creed, colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation and so on.

Should they be allowed do what they like too? Begging, thieving and scamming through life, they can do that in their own country. Roma Gypsies are just scumbags, exact same as our scumbags. The only difference is they have a darker skin tone. If this story was "scumbags from dolphins barn run out of neighbourhood by local residents for causing a nuisance." Would you be on going on about giving them freedom to do what they like? Lets not kid ourselves, this isn't about their creed, colour, religion, gender and sexual orientation, Its about how they conduct themselves. Simple as.

markopantelic

i dont think their culture has a place in a society like Ireland or Romania/Slovakia or anywhere else they are in much larger numbers, for me personally I don't think they have any self respect but i've never had any problems with them, so no i'm not happy they are being forced out(although they are being forced out of a different country but on this island)

What I would like to see in Ireland is a ultamatium(if thats the word) to the roma here, its a disgrace how they have kids and bring them into a world where they have no hope

Bandit12

Get rid of em.:)

PaulieD

Paityn Glamorous Penicillin wrote: »

I really dont know why we are letting roma gypsies into the country, we know they come to rob, steal and milk what they can from the government they should be turned around at the border. Could you imagine if a big crowd of them arrived at a US border they would be shot before they would be let in.

When they come up selling flowers/picking pockets at night in Galway I usually point them in the direction of Shannon airport.

There are a lot of them in Canada and America claiming asylum from Czech Republic!

http://czechdaily.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/roma-asylum-seekers-from-the-czech-republic-to-swamp-canadian-refugee-shelters/

"Hundreds of Czech Roma have left their country to seek asylum in Canada since January 2009. Canadian authorities fear that the situation might get out of control, the National Post in Toronto wrote. The influx is motivated by the Roma’s conviction that they are constantly being discriminated against and that the Czech authorities fail to protect them from the attacks by extreme-right movements".

Running Bing

Jakkass wrote: »

N.B - I couldn't care whether they are Roma or Romanian, in a freedom loving Western society all people should have equal opportunity if they are given permission to live in a certain country no matter what creed, colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation and so on.

And if this equal opportunity is refused? if instead the person wishes to leech off the system, beg, steal, intimidate? Are we expected to support these people? Welcome them with open arms and tolerate or simply ignore their actions?

Now like you I could not care less whether such a person is Roma or Romanian. Or American, or French, Italian, Chinese or Australian. Such people do not belong here imo.

Again I don't think its a race thing. God knows there are plenty of Irish criminals and lowlifes that I would love out of the country if it were possible.

Irishcrx

K-9 wrote: »

Suppose it depends on if they actually did any of those things or are they victims of stereotyping, you know, like you just did there?

Actually no, I wasn't stereotyping I was giving my opinion on personal expieriences that I have had with them which have all been bad.

Bandit12

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

i would love to pork one of those old fat roma women with the gold teeth

Reported :pac:

Iang87

good news any chance they could swing by Limerick and take some of them with them

markopantelic

thing with the roma is, how do you react to them when they are playing music and stuff? what makes them difference from your average street performer. are the ones who play music not wasters?

also how much roma are in ireland? the fact is that as a people they have been victimised for centuries, i mean how many of them were killed by the nazis?

charlie chaplin was a roma apparently.

Davei141

briano wrote: »

Holy ****, there was me thinking I was going to boards.ie, when I seemed to have ended up on stormfront.

When you have no conviction in your opinion, muddy the waters and play the stormfront card eh.

philologos

0ubliette wrote: »

Theres a massive difference between discriminating against someone solely down to skin colour or sexual preference, something nobody can make a decision about and is simply born with, or discriminating against people who actively make the choice to beg/steal for a living, have babies solely because the Romanian government gives them an allowance for every child they have, live in filth, have no respect for either their own property or the property of those around them, and have no intention of working. Im sorry but i couldnt give a **** if youre white, black, green, or what, but if thats the reason youre coming to this country, you shouldnt be let in to do whatever you like.

No there really isn't a difference. You are generalising people of minority group X, based on the behaviour of a portion of group X. I personally believe that people should be assessed as individuals in respect to their actions. It's the only way we can effectively decide on these things. It is also why our justice system is based on innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. If our judges were like you, if a Roma person was suspected of pick pocketing you'd have them accused guilty before hearing the evidence. Why can't we apply this innocent before proven guilty to our views of ethnic / racial minorities. That's what I really can't understand.

You make it out as if every Roma steals for a living. To be honest with you when 75% of Roma live in poverty I'm quite frankly not surprised why they steal. If I were starving I would probably steal particularly if I was trying to provide for myself and my family.

In other countries in the Balkans the Roma have been put into prostitution out of desperation by higher gangs. I don't think we are being reasonable in understanding the situation that these people are in before we suddenly leap into judging them.

0ubliette wrote: »

Honestly, do you live near any roma? and im asking this in all seriouness. Because i find it hard to imagine that anyone could live near them and NOT be a bit prejudiced against them.

I've encountered quite a few yes. I unlike you do not believe that I can base my view of 100% based on a group of individuals.

Davei141 wrote: »

Should they be allowed do what they like too? Begging, thieving and scamming through life, they can do that in their own country. Roma Gypsies are just scumbags, exact same as our scumbags. The only difference is they have a darker skin tone. If this story was "scumbags from dolphins barn run out of neighbourhood by local residents for causing a nuisance." Would you be on going on about giving them freedom to do what they like? Lets not kid ourselves, this isn't about their creed, colour, religion, gender and sexual orientation, Its about how they conduct themselves. Simple as.

Everyone is subject to the law, don't be so ridiculous. They have been given entry into Ireland for a reason, therefore I think they should have every right to settle here.

The real solution for the Roma problem would be if charitable projects could be set up to find housing and work for these people, giving them real opportunities. Perhaps also to disperse them around amongst other cultural groupings so as to challenge them to integrate and not to form ghettos. Why aren't we talking business if we truly want to solve the problem though?

Booting a minority only works until you find that you have several other groups of minorities that will have to integrate. There is great work in Ireland happening among Afghans who speak Farsi to integrate them into Irish society through church organisations. I've heard great things about this.

These people are all just like you and me when we get down to it, except they have had to endure much harder than you or me. As such I prefer to be a realist and think of solutions rather than take the far-right xenophobic (and that's exactly what it is) line of booting minorities out.

I'm not particularly nationalistic. I feel that some people take a ethnic view of what Irishness is, it won't work in the future. Being Irish must be subject to change. I personally consider the Irish as the people who are currently living in Ireland. As the demographics change, so does what it means to be Irish. Personally I think the Roma, Romanians, Afghans or anyone else coming into this country are as entitled to it as I am if they have legal permission.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Are they good-lookin tho'?:D

munchkin_utd

Its very hard to discuss these types of topics and come out of it without looking like a racist if you arent in favour of inviting the whole world to live in your back yard.

Roma have nothing (that i can see) to offer Ireland, north or south, so I wouldnt be in favour of importing more of them.

They are not some band of ultra skilled highly motivated workers that Ireland desperatly needs.

Essentially they are a beggar race. They are in general illiterate and in Romania they experience 90% unemployment so the work ethic is pretty much non existant.

To be fair to them, they are pissed on from a height in Eastern Europe. In Belgrade for example there are shanty towns full of Roma, akin to what you see in the slums in India.

Still and all,
is their bad treatment in East Europe a reason to fill Ireland with thousands of these beggar people that have nothing to offer Ireland except more social welfare, health and education costs?

P.S. I myself am an emmigrant but unlike the Roma I came with a degree and a masters and am paying half my salary in taxes and health insurance (in Germany). I am paying my way here and i despair when Ireland is seen as a soft touch for spongers that have nothing to offer.

PaulieD

markopantelic wrote: »

the fact is that as a people they have been victimised for centuries, i mean how many of them were killed by the nazis?

Whats that got to do with anything? Most nationalites/races have been victims of injustice. Does that mean we should allow them all into Ireland at the expense of the taxpayer? Ireland is not a charity, it is a bankrupt country, the message should be made clear, foreign nationals who come here to live off the state are not wanted.

Also, do you ever stop harping on about the Nazis? Hitlers dead. Nazism is dead. Build a bridge and get over it.

0ubliette

Jakkass wrote: »

No there really isn't a difference. You are generalising people of minority group X, based on the behaviour of a portion of group X. I personally believe that people should be assessed as individuals in respect to their actions. It's the only way we can effectively decide on these things. It is also why our justice system is based on innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. If our judges were like you, if a Roma person was suspected of pick pocketing you'd have them accused guilty before hearing the evidence. Why can't we apply this innocent before proven guilty to our views of ethnic / racial minorities. That's what I really can't understand.

You make it out as if every Roma steals for a living. To be honest with you when 75% of Roma live in poverty I'm quite frankly not surprised why they steal. If I were starving I would probably steal particularly if I was trying to provide for myself and my family.

So theyre all tired, poor starving huddled masses now?? And were all horrible racists for not wanting to help them, is that it?
Doesnt look like theyre starving to me, they all have cars (2 in each house they live in round here actually), and most of the girls ive seen have a mouthful of gold teeth. Perhaps if they were so desperate for food they could sell a car or the gold, eh?
And yes there is a massive difference between saying 'no, dont allow homosexuals or black people into the country', and saying 'no, dont allow a group of people who are known for actively engaging in criminal or antisocial behaviour and have no intention of working or actively contributing to society in to do whatever they like.'

And youve seen a few in person yeah? Good for you. Try living with some man, youd change youre tune fairly fast i guarantee. The two houses near me where they live are practically mini halting sites. Not to mention the sudden increase in burglaries and their harrassment of elderly people in the area.
Im not saying anyone has the right to run someone out of their home, thats not right, but i am saying that perhaps if these people didnt behave like scum people wouldnt treat them like scum.

markopantelic

what are u talking about? the thread is generally about roma, the ones going home weren't in ireland to begin with(replying to PaulieD)

emma6606

The Roma Gypsies should all be quarantined before being allowed in here in the first place... dirty smelly gits - coming over here with their exotic diseases.

The thoughts of my hard earned tax money being given to them turns my stomach

I think its a waste giving them accomodation, when there are plenty of Irish people that need a place to live... especially with homes being repossessed during the recession...
Enough of our own people are loosing jobs and unable to cope with mortgage repayments...

If we got rid of some of those gypsies we'd be able to look after more of our own

Nemesis

I don't like Stormfront or Nazi's but maybe I shouldn't tar them all with the one brush.

I'm sure there was/is good decent Nazi's it was just a few giving the rest a bad name....

Anytime I've had a dealing with Roma they have tried robbing me. (about 6 occasions)

Was talking to a friend yesterday about this issue and he said his best workers and most decent guys he had were Romanian.

These very Romanians however really have a dislike for the Roma and label them as thieves and beggers.

I don't know who the Romanians in the North were the thieving begging type or the hard working/good type.

Hmm the word 'Type' isn't very nice for groups of people.

PaulieD

Jakkass wrote: »

Everyone is subject to the law, don't be so ridiculous. They have been given entry into Ireland for a reason, therefore I think they should have every right to settle here.

They need a work permit to reside in Ireland and the UK, as they are Romanian citizens. Are the Department of Trade and Enterprise issuing work permits to beggars now? Of course not.

Therefore, they are legally entitled to nothing. They got a free flight home. They should be thankful for that.

PaulieD

markopantelic wrote: »

what are u talking about? the thread is generally about roma, the ones going home weren't in ireland to begin with(replying to PaulieD)

They where in Ulster, which is part of the island of Ireland.

markopantelic

emma6606 wrote: »

The Roma Gypsies should all be quarantined before being allowed in here in the first place... dirty smelly gits - coming over here with their exotic diseases.

The thoughts of my hard earned tax money being given to them turns my stomach

I think its a waste giving them accomodation, when there are plenty of Irish people that need a place to live... especially with homes being repossessed during the recession...
Enough of our own people are loosing jobs and unable to cope with mortgage repayments...

If we got rid of some of those gypsies we'd be able to look after more of our own

What is it about those three words?

And don't worry about houses, we could house the entire roma population in europe with all the vacant estates around ireland at the moment.

philologos

0ubliette wrote: »

So theyre all tired, poor starving huddled masses now?? And were all horrible racists for not wanting to help them, is that it?

I don't think you are racist for not wanting to help them. I just don't think that your assessment is fair in any respect. It certainly encourages ethnic hostility. If helping Roma is a clear solution to stop the poverty that they endure, and the effect of that poverty.

0ubliette wrote: »

Doesnt look like theyre starving to me, they all have cars (2 in each house they live in round here actually), and most of the girls ive seen have a mouthful of gold teeth. Perhaps if they were so desperate for food they could sell a car or the gold, eh?

Do they all? I don't think this is a correct notion. I am sure that a few have made a living for themselves in Ireland alright, but how you can say just because you have seen a few who do live comfortably that all must be living comfortably is a clear logical fallacy.

0ubliette wrote: »

And yes there is a massive difference between saying 'no, dont allow homosexuals or black people into the country', and saying 'no, dont allow a group of people who are known for actively engaging in criminal or antisocial behaviour and have no intention of working or actively contributing to society in to do whatever they like.'

No there isn't at all. If homosexuals had been in poverty and had resorted to theft to provide for themselves it could well be them who you would be ranting on about. Likewise with blacks. Let's be realistic here.

The funny thing about this is when people say "Send them back home". Where on earth is their home? They do not have a country of a nation. They are an ethnic group with Indian descent. They have no homeland, so when you say "send them back home", you are really saying let another country deal with these "filth", "scum", etc because we in this country do not have the compassion to help.

0ubliette wrote: »

And youve seen a few in person yeah? Good for you. Try living with some man, youd change youre tune fairly fast i guarantee. The two houses near me where they live are practically mini halting sites. Not to mention the sudden increase in burglaries and their harrassment of elderly people in the area.

I'd like to hope I wouldn't become xenophobic. I certainly would consult the authorities though. People say the same type of things about Muslims. People said the same things about Jews. I just hope that people eventually will be able to engage with these people and find a solution to the overall problem. Isolation and marginalisation can have strange effects on a group of people. IMO, Ireland should be inclusive, rather than exclusive.

0ubliette wrote: »

Im not saying anyone has the right to run someone out of their home, thats not right, but i am saying that perhaps if these people didnt behave like scum people wouldnt treat them like scum.

So, you are kinda saying the Loyalists were justified. Even though these people were Romanian, not Roma? Totally different group of people being discussed here.

Daroxtar

markopantelic wrote: »

What is it about those three words?

And don't worry about houses, we could house the entire roma population in europe with all the vacant estates around ireland at the moment.

At 40 of the fkkrs per house , ya we could.