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So our education system suffers because of rich old people

Shmuck

Because rich people over 70 just don't feel like paying for medical cards god bless them, our education system, one of the key factors in the celtic tiger will suffer.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1022/budgeteducation.html

Because rich people who could easily afford to pay for medical cards bitched and moaned, there is now no chance of the government backtracking on their plans to increase class sizes. The long term competetiveness of our economy will now be dramatically reduced. It's widely accepted that improvements in our education system was one of the main reasons in our economic boom.

But sure what do old people care, they only care about number one, **** everyone else, **** the future of Ireland, they'll all be dead and buried when the **** really hits the fan so what do they care. Selfish bastards :mad:

I'm gonna ****in deck the next old person I see on the street.

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rossie1977

axel rose wrote: »

Agree with fighting irish here. A lot of these 'rich' oaps were paying some of the highest levels of tax back in the 1980s, (I think it was 54%-too tired to check).
Many were paying mortages when interest was at 16%. They were the ones that were keeping the country up when the last recession was at its worst. (That would be the recession when people were actually poor and not in debt).
The least that can be done is that the government can look after their health in later years.
As for the crap that there are elderly millionaires using medical cards....whatever dude :rolleyes:. The reality is that they would be availing of their private healthcare. I wonder how many of these millionaire oaps have actually applied for the medical card?

some were here, however some were not here during the 1980s, my mother is a housekeeper for a pair (brother and sister) who spent their life in england and have houses all the place (sold one for 250k two years ago), never worked a day in ireland come back home and get a medical card and abuse the system completely now they have it

partyatmygaff

eh, according to my history teacher when we asked her what she does when she has a few free classes in a row she says she goes around to a nearby shopping centre to spend the time there

To top it off shes one of the schools best teachers too

partyatmygaff

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Bif of a contradiction there: one minute you're nosey wnough to look though teachers timetables, the next you couldn't care less...?
Why don't you take the oppertunity now to ask Janey?

Ah ya see, I only want to see what they end up doing all day just to see what they have to do compared to the students, I couldnt give a crap how long they spend correcting my work or planning lessons tbh(No offence intended to any teachers btw)

byhookorbycrook

Class Size: Irish classes are already the second highest in Europe. Next year, your child’s class could be even more crowded.
English Language Teachers: Hundreds of English language teachers will go in schools. The only help most newcomer children will now get is in an already over-crowded class. This will affect all pupils.
School Books: Funding for free books for poor children is withdrawn in 90% of schools.
Substitute Teachers: From 1 January 2009 there will be no substitute cover for teachers on uncertified sick leave. Schools may have to send children home as the government won’t pay teachers.
Equipment Grants: All equipment and resource grants for resource teachers working with special needs children abolished.
Traveller Children: Funding of €4.3m for Traveller children slashed.
Library Books: €2.1m is gone from school library grants.

Online petition here

http://www.petitiononline.com/class08/petition.html

and there's a protest outside the Dáil on Weds at 6.30

hopalong85

janeybabe wrote: »

You're right....there are days when teachers have less than 8 classes a day. The free classes are usually for planning and correcting. I would rarely sit down for a chat!

yeah, and what time does your working day finish? how many months paid holidays do you get per annum? planning and correcting?! lol most of the "correcting" my homework etc. got involved about 5 ticks and some random mark that popped into the teachers head.
serious amount of incompetent teachers out there imo who have no right to be "educating" anybody.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

hopalong85 wrote: »

yeah, and what time does your working day finish? how many months paid holidays do you get per annum? planning and correcting?! lol most of the "correcting" my homework etc. got involved about 5 ticks and some random mark that popped into the teachers head.
serious amount of incompetent teachers out there imo who have no right to be "educating" anybody.

I'm sure you'll be backing that last statement up and citing examples...?

hopalong85

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I'm sure you'll be backing that last statement up and citing examples...?

why would i do that? i said imo, so it's hardly like i'm stating it as fact or anything. from my own personal experience though, and from talking to friends who went to different schools, there are a lot of incompetent teachers in secondary schools in this country. some of my teachers were actually a serious joke, coming in late constantly etc.

axel rose

rossie1977 wrote: »

some were here, however some were not here during the 1980s, my mother is a housekeeper for a pair (brother and sister) who spent their life in england and have houses all the place (sold one for 250k two years ago), never worked a day in ireland come back home and get a medical card and abuse the system completely now they have it

Oh for Gods sake Rosie! You know TWO PEOPLE who you hear are wealthy, earned their money abroad and have a medical card. :rolleyes:

Are you really suggesting that this example gives any weight to your arguement? Could you not have looked for a smaller sample?

On a separate point I would question your mothers professionalism..she appears to have little respect for her employers private business.

Trotter

amacachi wrote: »

Half an hour of marking a day as well I suppose.

I forgot it's blasphemy to criticise teachers.

Its fine to criticise teachers, just be accurate in what you're moaning about. It takes hours to mark work if its done right, and very few do 5 out of 9 every day. Thats just made up. Criticise away, but get the facts right first.

Anyway, the old "you get too much money and holidays" nugget I see all the time on boards is just odd. Its not like people who come up with that were banned from teaching. Do the postgrad, get the holidays and the huge money! Its that easy! Honest!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

hopalong85 wrote: »

why would i do that? i said imo, so it's hardly like i'm stating it as fact or anything. from my own personal experience though, and from talking to friends who went to different schools, there are a lot of incompetent teachers in secondary schools in this country. some of my teachers were actually a serious joke, coming in late constantly etc.

Nope. You never said it was opinion, and it very much looks like you stated it as fact. Experiences are fine, but without them you post looks spiteful and backup by nothing stronger than gossip and insinuation.

partyatmygaff

Trotter wrote: »

Its fine to criticise teachers, just be accurate in what you're moaning about. It takes hours to mark work if its done right, and very few do 5 out of 9 every day. Thats just made up. Criticise away, but get the facts right first.

Anyway, the old "you get too much money and holidays" nugget I see all the time on boards is just odd. Its not like people who come up with that were banned from teaching. Do the postgrad, get the holidays and the huge money! Its that easy! Honest!

hey here now, Im not making this up people, I have seen most of my teachers timetables one way or another atleast 6 or 7 have 5 (Some of them even have 4 classes on some days).

Lesson planning is surely not that horrifyingly difficult and most if not all my teachers seem to make it up on the fly (works well too)

Correcting i gotta agree with though especially for English teachers and the subjects where essays can and will stretch out to 8 pages long EACH, But its not as if they have a deadline to get the homework corrected by, my english teacher for example took 2 months to get our copies back.

hopalong85

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Nope. You never said it was opinion, and it very much looks like you stated it as fact. Experiences are fine, but without them you post looks spiteful and backup by nothing stronger than gossip and insinuation.

yup. i certainly did say it was my opinion. "imo" is short for "in my opinion". my experiences and the experiences of many other people who went to different schools are that there are a serious amount of incompetent teachers in irish secondary schools.

i'm not spiteful at all lol. i did fine in in my leaving, but that was down to me, not my teachers. hey, i might even become a teacher myself someday, 3 months paid holidays every summer, that would rock man! not to mention thos tax free cash in hand grind classes!

hopalong85

Trotter wrote: »

Its fine to criticise teachers, just be accurate in what you're moaning about. It takes hours to mark work if its done right, and very few do 5 out of 9 every day. Thats just made up. Criticise away, but get the facts right first.

Anyway, the old "you get too much money and holidays" nugget I see all the time on boards is just odd. Its not like people who come up with that were banned from teaching. Do the postgrad, get the holidays and the huge money! Its that easy! Honest!

postgrad?! huh?! not all of my teachers had postgrads that's for sure! have the regulations changed or something?

Stark

Good work if you can get it. Permanent teaching jobs are hard to come by these days, most teachers have to do years of going from contract to contract and being paid by the hour.

Trotter

partyatmygaff wrote: »

hey here now, Im not making this up people, I have seen most of my teachers timetables one way or another atleast 6 or 7 have 5 (Some of them even have 4 classes on some days).

Lesson planning is surely not that horrifyingly difficult and most if not all my teachers seem to make it up on the fly (works well too)

Correcting i gotta agree with though especially for English teachers and the subjects where essays can and will stretch out to 8 pages long EACH, But its not as if they have a deadline to get the homework corrected by, my english teacher for example took 2 months to get our copies back.

I'm a primary teacher. I spend 2-3 hours a day on admin and planning after my class has gone home. I'm not asking for a medal, just the respect that I do the same work as anyone else.

Anyway.. The government can well afford to make cuts elsewhere and not increase class sizes. Kids can't lobby like builders and bankers, so its a no brainer.

Interestingly, here's a pre election broadcast from the Green Party.
The first 30 seconds is enough really.

RandolphEsq

Stark wrote: »

The correct term is "old dear".

You can't say 'old' as that implies negative connotations and that they are somehow a lower class to the rest of society.

I think the correct term is the non-not-so-young

heyjude

Shmuck wrote: »

Because rich people over 70 just don't feel like paying for medical cards god bless them, our education system, one of the key factors in the celtic tiger will suffer.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1022/budgeteducation.html

Because rich people who could easily afford to pay for medical cards bitched and moaned, there is now no chance of the government backtracking on their plans to increase class sizes. The long term competetiveness of our economy will now be dramatically reduced. It's widely accepted that improvements in our education system was one of the main reasons in our economic boom.

But sure what do old people care, they only care about number one, **** everyone else, **** the future of Ireland, they'll all be dead and buried when the **** really hits the fan so what do they care. Selfish bastards :mad:

I'm gonna ****in deck the next old person I see on the street.

I think you'll find if you check that the concessions to the building industry in the budget far exceed in value the savings that would have been made from removing medical cards from over 70s or from the education cutbacks, but in all the furore over the medical cards, people seem to have missed the fact that given a choice between our children, our elderly, our lowest paid workers and our builders, the builders were the clear winners, while the other three were 'put to the sword' with attempted cutbacks(some now partially reversed).

If Fianna Fail had given a bit less to the building industry, they could have avoided the other issues altogether, but the builders paid for their tent in Galway and now they're collecting their dues.

partyatmygaff

Trotter wrote: »

I'm a primary teacher. I spend 2-3 hours a day on admin and planning after my class has gone home. I'm not asking for a medal, just the respect that I do the same work as anyone else.

Anyway.. The government can well afford to make cuts elsewhere and not increase class sizes. Kids can't lobby like builders and bankers, so its a no brainer.

Thats primary school which is different, im talking about secondary schools here and so is everyone else i think but Primary School teachers do have more work to do since they teach everything in the class from Irish, maths, english, history, P.E., SPHE all by themselves and thats why primary school teachers plan out lessons to keep pupils interested and so they can learn.

Secondary school teachers on the other hand are either one of 2 things
Incompetent mentally retarded fools with no grasp of what they're doing (Yes there are some people this bad)

or

Absolutely great people who somehow can get you to learn and know what they're teaching inside and out.

Still though secondary schools imo have a much easier time than primary school teachers (Well atleast for Junior infants upto 2nd class or so when they're still little kids)

is_that_so

Shmuck wrote: »

But sure what do old people care, they only care about number one, **** everyone else, **** the future of Ireland, they'll all be dead and buried when the **** really hits the fan so what do they care. Selfish bastards :mad:

I'm gonna ****in deck the next old person I see on the street.

Nah, sorry can't see the connection myself no matter how hard I try but we shouldn't let that get in the way of a very fine rant.
Be careful now you might meet these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygy7UDADXDg

[Deleted User]

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055404215

our education system is gettin cut backs not because of elderly people but because they are gonna spend 6.5 BILLION keepin property prices too high

In particular the scheme will screw people who have ALREADY BOUGHT and are in negative equity as it only benefits newly built houses

i.e developers.

check out the link. Fight back

themont85

Teaching is a great life from what my old teachers told me. Most had all their lessons planned out on their laptops from the moment the curriculum is set. One of these teachers, who i'm friends with now, just revises these lessons slighltly for a curriculum change. Correcting can be upto 4 or 5 hours extra per week for him on top of classes. Now he would be one of the organised teachers i had. I had a couple though who were blatently disorganised and often told us how 'hard' and 'stressful' teaching is. Whilst the teachers i would chat too who are organised would say how great their job is. Its not a walk in the park because unlike some teachers in Ireland, it was expected to get decent results from your students in state exams. Also of course they could have students who may not be 'academic' and need extra help, these are the unquantifiable things they don't show up in the pay slip.

Between his regular teaching salary, supervision, rugby coaching, doing a few grinds a week and doing bits of work in his holidays he gets 65,000 a year. Not bad money really when you think about it for his age(in and around 40).

Biro

Typical Fianna Fail muck. If they really wanted to save money from schools they should concentrate on firing absolutely useless teachers. (despite what other teachers will tell you, crap teachers do exist in their hundreds and give all teachers a bad name). Also give them a 5% pay cut, maybe a bit less, depending on how many crap ones get the boot. That's the way any normal industry works. But they're too chicken to do that, cause they're afraid of the unions.
I'm sure any teacher with half a brain would rather a 5% pay cut than to join the back of the dole queue. That would mean that pupils aren't suffering, in fact they'd be helped. They could do the same right across the public sector. This idea of not being at risk of loosing their job for being crap at it is a joke.
Cutting funds for special needs kids really is a sick joke, from the same people smiling at the cameras when the Special Olympics were here saying "We Care".
The first OAP medical card proposal was a joke, but I've no problem with this one. €1400 a week income for one household is more than enough to cover Plan E VHI with all benefits ticked if need be, and plenty to spare.
Lets call a spade a spade here, it's a recession and tough decisions have to be made. I've no problem with the extra tax I have to pay and the extra VAT on the goods I buy (although I think it's a bad idea to discourage spending when spending is what's needed) But the wrong ones have been made here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

hopalong85 wrote: »

yup. i certainly did say it was my opinion. "imo" is short for "in my opinion". my experiences and the experiences of many other people who went to different schools are that there are a serious amount of incompetent teachers in irish secondary schools.

i'm not spiteful at all lol. i did fine in in my leaving, but that was down to me, not my teachers. hey, i might even become a teacher myself someday, 3 months paid holidays every summer, that would rock man! not to mention thos tax free cash in hand grind classes!

My apologies, you did. What can I say - it's late?! I'd still do a LOT more research into the amount of time spent on outside-classroom work before you commited you future to it, though. I think most of the bad teachers you were referring to were the ones that went into it for the exact same resons you're thinking of going into it for.

partyatmygaff

How many teachers here in this country or in the world actually go in to educate students for "the future generations"

?

Well?

I doubt many actually go into teaching for the good of the pupils, its either because they like teaching and think its for them OR they want the benefits

Trotter

partyatmygaff wrote: »

How many teachers here in this country or in the world actually go in to educate students for "the future generations"

?

Well?

I doubt many actually go into teaching for the good of the pupils, its either because they like teaching and think its for them OR they want the benefits

What has any of that got to do with FF's decision to cut education??

Why is this descending into yet another teachers are bad, make them work for less, question their motives.. discussion?

Ah.. Whats the point.. We're all crap at the job and in it for the holidays. Dock half my wages and use it to drop the numbers in the class. That'll keep the builders happy, and sure let the teachers moan. :rolleyes:

Slán

EamonnKeane

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Class Size: Irish classes are already the second highest in Europe. Next year, your child’s class could be even more crowded.

English Language Teachers: Hundreds of English language teachers will go in schools. The only help most newcomer children will now get is in an already over-crowded class. This will affect all pupils.

School Books: Funding for free books for poor children is withdrawn in 90% of schools.

Substitute Teachers: From 1 January 2009 there will be no substitute cover for teachers on uncertified sick leave. Schools may have to send children home as the government won’t pay teachers.

Equipment Grants: All equipment and resource grants for resource teachers working with special needs children abolished.

Traveller Children: Funding of €4.3m for Traveller children slashed.

Library Books: €2.1m is gone from school library grants.

Online petition here

http://www.petitiononline.com/class08/petition.html

and there's a protest outside the Dáil on Weds at 6.30

I hate that phrase "newcomer children". "Immigrant" is not a curse word. In relative terms, all children are newcomers to this world.

But €2m off libraries ... in my primary school each class got to pick about 10 new books for their class bookshelf each year. I don't see how it could be much worse.

Also, the Irish Centre for Talented Youth had ALL of its funding removed. So our potential Nobel laureates, who already spend 80% of the school day bored out their minds with understimulation, haven't even got this one thing. Also, funding for "special needs" education, aimed at the top and bottom 5%, almost all goes to the vote-winning Down syndrome kids; the geniuses are left to their own devices. When one of them is picking up a Fields Medal in 2040, you can be sure Brian Cowen junior will be shaking his hand and saying "shur tis a great day for de cuntreh"

Bob the Builder

Teachers do great work, and sure the holidays are brilliant, but there's a lot of estra work involved. As you settle into the school, in terms of experience, it gets to the point of devoting less time to planning classes.

I have one teacher, close to retirement, does feck all work outside of class times, and is a good teacher. I have another teacher who is brilliant, spends hours everyday correcting essays. I can hand up a 10 page document to her, and she'll have it back to me the next day corrected, just like a leaving cert exam.

However, the decision to slash extra budgets to the schools are full of bullshít. I was in favour of tightening the belt, because I said thats what was required to wake us up, and get the country actually working again, but what the government have done has just penalized us students by removing all our grants, and laying off alomost all the subteachers.

Education is taught completely wrong anyway, and the lack of technology infrastructure, home access to internet, and traditional linear teaching methods, means that the work that students do, the study, the revision, is being disregarded because it's been taught wrong and students aren't being told the correct ways to learn. The whole 5 year post-primary cycle is based around the two different bursts of 1.5 week long exams. So essentially, you spend 5 years, or sometimes even 6 years at school, just to get past 3 weeks of exams.

Budget, or no budget, the public service is arseways, and this is just highlighting the lack of ability of the education service throughout the country, and the defecincies we had. In the 'good times', we spent millions, if not billions of euro 'researching' stupid subjects, rather than reforming bullet holes, defecencies and training teachers correctly.

Moral of the story, the whole fúcking department is a shambles, and the budget '09 only highlighted it. Education system suffers because of laziness, and overpaid stupidity, lack of leadership and organisation, inexperienced politicians at the top of the system, and a budget '09 that looks like it was created by a 19 year old non-smoker, beer drinker with no job, on the dole.

FX Meister

amacachi wrote: »

Half an hour of marking a day as well I suppose.

I forgot it's blasphemy to criticise teachers.

No point arguing with you. You don't work anyway.

eddiehobbs

What is needed is more productivity from the teachers. Extend the school year by a month, plenty of time for that bigger class size then.

amacachi

FX Meister wrote: »

No point arguing with you. You don't work anyway.

Ah, nicely done.

Not working means my opinion isn't valid?
I can only go by how it was in school for me little over a year ago and there were 41 active teachers with 25-28 classes being taught at any one time. even at 28 classes that works out at an average of just over 6 classes a day each they had to teach.
One particular teacher has written several books, mostly during class time it would seem, when he spends 5 minutes calling out answers to homework, tells the student to read and then types for about 25 minutes.

I had a couple of wonderful teachers, ironically they were the ones who were teaching between 35 and 40 classes a week.
They managed this without late nights devoted to lesson plans or anything else. Homework was corrected at the start of class and then we continued from where we were the day before. Nothing complicated about that.

What annoyed me about all teachers is that they would quite happily openly criticise other teachers in front of a class, yet no-one else could say a word against them.

There are some great teachers out there, but there is an awful lot of deadwood whether anyone cares to admit it or not. Students in one school have been complaining for several years about an alcoholic teacher, but nothing is done. Meanwhile younger teachers who could actually bring something good to the pupils can't get a look-in and that's gonna be even more of a problem over the coming years.