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Tabula Rasa connecton problems (tracert incl)

DaZulu

I am having trouble connecting to the tabula rasa servers. I get stuck on a 'Sending Server Request' message after logging into the game. I've managed to get into the game once and play for 20 minutes before being disconnected. So I ran the plaync network tool and it ran a trace...

Route for Eu/Europe (206.127.147.196)

Tracing route to 206-127-147-196.plaync.com [206.127.147.196] over a maximum of 30 hops:
  0  mycomputer [192.168.0.136] 
  1  192.168.0.1 
  2  10.94.128.1 
  3  089-101-162193.ntlworld.ie [89.101.162.193] 
  4  213.46.165.53 
  5  nl-ams-rc-01-pos-0-1.chellonetwork.com [213.46.160.13] 
  6  213.46.183.186 
  7  ge-3-1-7.ams11.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.75.57] 
  8  so-2-1-0.fra10.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.82.86] 
  9     *        *        *     

Computing statistics for 22 seconds...
            Source to Here   This Node/Link
Hop  RTT    Lost/Sent = Pct  Lost/Sent = Pct  Address

  0                                           mycomputer [192.168.0.136] 
                                0/  10 =  0%   |
  1    1ms     0/  10 =  0%     0/  10 =  0%  192.168.0.1 
                                0/  10 =  0%   |
  2  ---      10/  10 =100%    10/  10 =100%  10.94.128.1 
                                0/  10 =  0%   |
  3   17ms     0/  10 =  0%     0/  10 =  0%  089-101-162193.ntlworld.ie [89.101.162.193] 
                                0/  10 =  0%   |
  4   14ms     0/  10 =  0%     0/  10 =  0%  213.46.165.53 
                                0/  10 =  0%   |
  5   48ms     0/  10 =  0%     0/  10 =  0%  nl-ams-rc-01-pos-0-1.chellonetwork.com [213.46.160.13] 
                                0/  10 =  0%   |
  6   48ms     0/  10 =  0%     0/  10 =  0%  213.46.183.186 
                               10/  10 =100%   |
  7  ---      10/  10 =100%     0/  10 =  0%  ge-3-1-7.ams11.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.75.57] 
                                0/  10 =  0%   |
  8  ---      10/  10 =100%     0/  10 =  0%  so-2-1-0.fra10.ip.tiscali.net [213.200.82.86] 
                                0/  10 =  0%   |
  9  ---      10/  10 =100%     0/  10 =  0%  mycomputer [0.0.0.0] 

Trace complete.
############### Ended: Path Ping/Trace Route Tests

Any ides what's up with that packet loss?

and is that my problem?

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Ard

K84 wrote: »

Hello from Ireland!

Contact your ISP and email them a copy of your tracert. The more pressure Chello get from other ISPs the faster we can all get this fixed!

I already did that (phoned them)
But my traceroute looks like that :

206-127-147-196.plaync.com [206.127.147.196]
  1     1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     *        *        *     [timeout]
  3     *        *        *     [timeout]
  4     *        *        *     [timeout]
  5    43 ms    41 ms    42 ms  uk-lon01a-rd2-stm64-pos0-0.aorta.net [213.46.160.137]
  6    46 ms    43 ms    43 ms  uk-lon01a-ri2-pos-4-0.aorta.net [213.46.174.142]
  7    44 ms    45 ms    51 ms  ge-6-13.car3.London1.Level3.net [4.68.63.117]
  8    54 ms    54 ms    53 ms  ae-32-54.ebr2.London1.Level3.net [4.68.116.126]
  9    58 ms    54 ms    54 ms  ae-2.ebr2.Amsterdam1.Level3.net [4.69.132.134]
 10    48 ms    53 ms    54 ms  ae-1-100.ebr1.Amsterdam1.Level3.net [4.69.133.85]
 11    56 ms    53 ms    53 ms  ae-2.ebr2.Dusseldorf1.Level3.net [4.69.133.90]
 12    45 ms    50 ms    53 ms  ae-1-100.ebr1.Dusseldorf1.Level3.net [4.69.132.129]
 13    59 ms    54 ms    54 ms  ae-2.ebr2.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.132.138]
 14    51 ms    48 ms    48 ms  ae-21-52.car1.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.68.118.47]
 15     *        *        *     [timeout]

Tech support guy said "everything's fine, we're not blocking any ports, we're not doing anything with p2p traffic, it clearly looks like TR server problems"

K84

Just an update, I still haven't heard back from Mr John Brocklebank at UPC, he said he would contact me last Monday, it's a full seven days later now and I've sent the second reminder email.

DaZulu

This is disgraceful behaviour by the two companies. Neither seem to show any willingness to try and troubleshoot the situation and seem happy potentially losing a lot of customers because of it.

I haven't heard back from UPC about it either. At least PlayNC get back to you quick enough even though they say it's not their problem.

DaZulu

Looks like we've fallen into the 'Will not be solved' area of things

jaggeh

its not just tabula rasa. eve is going tits up on ntl too

Ivan

I think its time ye started voting with ye're feet then and take ye're business to another ISP that doesnt have the same issues. Especially if NTL is unwilling or incapable of using their own considerable weight to move things along.

K84

Customer (Andrew Rayner)
12/24/2007 09:35 PM Please can you re-open my previous ticket. Otherwise I will continue with this and you will need to take it upon yourselves to read my previous ticket to understand the background.

Your lack of action continues to infuriate me and I will be seeking a full refund for the product if a resolution cannot be found.

I have fully cooperated with my ISP and have been supplying them with tracerts and it's taking some time. Of course it's taking time when the developer of the game doesn't even bother to contact ISPs or backbone companies to flag the issue. I bought this game more than 2 weeks ago now and have not had one second of play.

Please observe the following course of action another developer is taking in trying to retain customers in this official thread by the developers:

http://community.enemyterritory.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11040

You will also see that the issue judging by the timedates was resolved in DAYS once the developers set in. Please advice me on how I can obtain a refund if the issue cannot be resolved.

My efforts towards playNC continued.

NTL still haven't got back to me - I will be looking to get out of their contract as soon as possible now.

K84

Sidenote: All NTL customers please contact John Brocklebank at NTL. He is dealing with my issue and would be best placed to 'help' any others out with similar problems.

I also cannot play Enemy Territory now.

K84

John,

As a further update, my experience has been constricted even further now as I am also unable to connect to a game called Enemy Territory:
Quake Wars. Unlike playNC with Tabula Rasa, iD software contacted Tiscali and fixed the majority of the UK based connections based on bandwidth prioritising for Quake Wars. However playNC insist it is an issue with NTL and not with them and they cannot fix it.

Here is another thread to review on connection problems http://community.enemyterritory.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11040. In it includes instructions on how test to see if the connection works. Open 2 command windows -

1. Into the first paste: telnet etqw-180.auth.mmp3.demonware.net 3074
2. Into the second paste: telnet etqw-180.lsg.mmp3.demonware.net 3074

'Leave it for few minutes. Is the screen still blank (well, maybe cursor underscores are still there. Ignore those.)?
If so, type in some random chars and hit return. Do you lose the connection? Any messages?'

My connection is reset as soon as I type 7-8 characters into the second window.

It is now 2 weeks since I was told I was waiting for a same-day response. I have phoned NTL/Chorus customer support and they inform me that you are simply dealing with it and I'm being fobbed off with 'We'll let you know before the end of the week... in a few days', yet I have heard nothing. They say they are also 'unable to contact you as you are based on Dublin and the call centre is in Limerick'. My primary use of the connection provided to me is to play games online, and NTL is preventing me from doing that. Under your terms and conditions, subsection 8:

Section 8: Management of Network
The Services are provided on a best efforts basis and we can not guarantee minimum bandwidth delivered to the customer and we can not guarantee that all data traffic can be transported complete and without delay.
UPC reserves the right to take whatever actions may be necessary to manage its network for the greatest benefit of the greatest number of subscribers. To this end, UPC reserves the right to restrict access to the Services and or to impose data traffic restrictions at its discretion (1) in order to implement new facilities, (2) to allow for data retrieval, and/or (3) to maintain service levels.
You expressly accept that any such actions on the part of UPC may affect the performance of the Service.

I currently take issue with the 'best efforts basis' as currently I have not received a response for 2 weeks after being informed it would take less than 24 hours - 'best efforts' seems somewhat stretched. I will be looking to seek legal advice if I cannot be connected to games that I purchase legitimately in Irish Retail stores to play on an Irish ISP that will not connect due to the lack of service offered. I also cannot be given a refund for some of these games due to their nature as they contain software keys.

I really do hope that this issue can be worked out before I take it futher.

Regards

Andrew Rayner

This is my email I have just sent to John Brocklebank (Technical Support) at UPC.

DaZulu

any chance of a pm with his email address or will i just address it to him in the subject?

cheers

Hello Andrew.

Thank you for contacting PlayNC Customer Support.

You can re-open any ticket yourself by using the "My account" tab from the PlayNC website.

It has been explained to you in the petition reference: 071204-002947 that we do not contact ISPs for connectivity issues on their side. Appart for the game you are mentionning there's no online gaming company doing so. We can not offer any refund neither for the game as the problem doesn't come from our servers which are working totally fine.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards,
GM Julien

PlayNC Customer Support Team
http://plaync.com

Is there someone writing on a book on the 'How nots' of customer service that would be interested in this company's response?

K84

I have just emailed the RTE business corespondents a summary of the whole NTL connection filtering debacle and the possible illegality - maybe they might take an interest, who knows.

AntiVirus

Looks like the same problem I'm having with Trackmania

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055206456

DaZulu

After no replies to the emails I have sent before. I am sending one final email with all the problems I have found with NTL.

Dear Sir or Madam,

Over the past 2 days my NTL broadband connection has been simply atrocious on both computers in the house. If I managed to connect to the internet at all, websites might load say half the page and then the connection would cut out before the rest was loaded. My IRC client would connect and disconnect every couple of minutes suggesting that the connection was doing the same. I waited until today to see if the problem would resolve itself. It is slightly better in that I can connect to sites after a few minutes but the connection is still connecting and disconnecting like before and is simply unsatisfactory.

This is not the service that was advertised. If NTL are upgrading or repairing, some notice would be appreciated, a note on the website even.

To attempt to fix this my end, I have reset my router and modem numerous times, reconfigured my firewall, turned off my firewall, completely reset my router, checked for blocked ports on my router, scanned for spy-ware and viruses and even reinstalled windows. The problem persists.

I have noticed, over the past couple of months, that the NTL broadband connection I have is quite unstable in that when it was "working" before it might go down for a day, or half a day, once or twice a week at random or would disconnect for an hour or so a day.

Myself and many others on NTL broadband cannot connect to the following website, they appear completely blocked and my router or firewall are not blocking them:
http://del.icio.us/
http://www.geocities.com/
http://www.venueofscottsdale.com/

The game Tabula Rasa is also unplayable on my NTL connection and is the same for many people on NTL. A number of us tried to resolve this issue by contacting NTL and the game company but neither seemed bothered about trying to fix the problem and both blamed each other. I myself sent a couple of emails to NTL about this and personally I received no replies. This doesn't say much for your customer service department either. See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54565471#post54565471 for more information.

So my question to you is… Are NTL going to do something about these problems, which are disgraceful for an ISP, or am I going to have to ask you to cancel my account because you are not providing the service that I give you money for and was originally advertised and originally received?

Yours Faithfully,
Adrian Payne,
Account Number: ***

This has become a disgraceful service in my eyes and they are showing a great lack of communication with their customers. It's not what I originally received when I first signed up to NTL broadband.

K84

Stick it to the man Dazulu, I'm STILL waiting a response from NTL.

DaZulu

Still no reply from the email above that I sent to NTL after a number of days and the problem has come and gone and come and gone etc.

Ivan

Have you considered ringing up and referencing your email that you sent in, DaZulu? Short of that, I'd just go ahead and cancel it altogether.

I've no idea what broadband services are available in your area, but even ripwave or clearwire have to be better than that. I know I for one wont be even considering NTL when I move back to Dublin in the next few weeks.

DaZulu

Still no reply.

Ye, I'll be doing that very shortly.

If NTL is the only available isp near me, I'm going to use pidgeons. Utterly rubbish isp and service - you can quote me on that.

adamo

Hi,

Just wanted to say that I fully support you in getting things sorted with NTL and NC Soft.

As you can guess I'm also on NTL and I'm experiencing mentioned problems.
You can add Lord of the Ring Online to the list of games that works bad on NTL "broadband". Better then Tabula Rasa, it works occasionally but you can experience connection drops, often disconnections etc.

I fully sign under statement that NTL does not provide their broadband service as advertised. There are no any information in the contract that service is limited in anyway while in practice it is.

I'm not customer right or law expert but I believe NTL is guilty of not providing service they are charging for. (Wondering how to prove it though)

As for NC Soft European GM response is as you guys said example of terrible Customer Service and also shows total luck if interest in customers satisfaction.
Saying that they seems to be correct that that is not their fault. As NTL as our provide is not proving fully working Internet access.

And as you said already NC Soft of course could get things sorted with NTL much faster then customers as us. If they would be a will on their side.

I'm wondering if contacting NC Soft Head Office (not sure if that's US or Korea) would be a worthy move here. Though as far as I remember NC Soft EU and other NC Soft branches are separate entities.

Anyway guys I hope you will be as persistent as you've been so far!

Good luck!

esskay

Hi,

A local ISP where I live installed new traffic shaping equipement lately and being fairly new to the whole ISP thing they only left the default ports unthrottled. A friend of mine who is a subscriber had to ring them multiple times to get ports "opened" for the likes of WoW and Lotro. Have you made NTL aware of what ports are required to connect to TR? AFAIK tracert uses it's own ICMP port and would be considered "normal" traffic. I would give NTL as much info as possible if I was you, as them may be routing traffic on to the relevant networks, but if this is only their "approved" traffic it may not include your TR traffic. Plus, if these tech support folk are as bad as you say do you think they will look this stuff up themselves? As I was feeling generous I thought I post the relevant info here to make life easy for you :-)

Originally Posted by From NCSoft Support
"If you are using a router, make sure TCP ports 80, 2106, 7777, 7790, 8001 and 8101 to 8104 as well as UDP ports 7780-7784 are opened within its settings."

I am not sure if this is all the ports required as these instructions are for opening ports on your own firewall/router to allow incoming traffic on to your network, but chances are most of the ports required are there.

Hoping to see y'all on the battlefield,

EssKay

Ivan

I dont think the problem is in getting them to open ports, sadly its much worse. The problem is in getting them to even entertain the notion of opening ports.

AntiVirus

Ok I've been having the same problem with Trackmania Nations and Trackmania United but have now managed to get a work around and it works!!

Here's instructions on how to do it, it should work for any game thats blocked by traffic shaping.

http://www.tm-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11243&p=85910#p85910

Eschekt

AntiVirus wrote: »

Ok I've been having the same problem with Trackmania Nations and Trackmania United but have now managed to get a work around and it works!!

Here's instructions on how to do it, it should work for any game thats blocked by traffic shaping.

http://www.tm-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11243&p=85910#p85910

damn... a lot of ppl with tr (or ntl) problems. my friend and me bought the game yesterday and got trapped too. actually i'm trying this little workaround from the link above, hopefully it works not only for tm.

Greedy

..we're in this together

TheDoc

from a legal stance.

The game company TR have a working product and have no issues from their side. They are not obliged anyway to compensate subscribers for game purchase of account subs. They are covered on their side bcause their product works.

NTL seem liable. Your internet connection is down to your use totally via the user policies. After having a glance through it, there is no mention of any restriction to gaming.

Your best legal case would be chasing after NTL, through consumer rights. You are paying for a service they are failing to deliver on.

You will not receive any refund or sympathy from game shops for your troubles, and they are not obliged to put any notice regarding connection issues, as the game is a working product.

Contact consumer affairs and explain your case...NTL are liable here. Those guys are great help in getting you help.

If all fails you will be stuck with changing ip, if you havnt got an alternitive, you have to try wait for a ntl pr saving face.

i just cringe a little when people jump to legal action as it usually totally fails.......

but get the focus right, ntl are the problem for you, not the game developer, you could understand how they are reluctant to help.....why spend their money fixing a problem thats not theirs

and they will probably get the same treatment as you

its a sad story and i feel for you guys...i was gna switch to ntl when i heard of their "8mb" lines, but thankfully stayed with eircom and never being happier.

but definitly contact the consumer affairs office, might even advise action against the gaming stores....as consumers should be made of all product changes or known faults or changes before sale.

Bring it back to the shop and say " This game is not compatible with ntl isp service, and i was not informed"

Tehnically under consumer rights, you have a fair complaint.

For atleast an exchange or voucher