Wertz wrote: » That's a very good point....methadone programmes have merely been outsourced to pharmacy shops by the HSE as a way to avoid them having to have dedicated clinics and staff. That's not to say that pharmacists don't make a good wage out of it (if they didn't why would they jeopardise potential business from "normal" customers whom 99% of probaly don't want to stand in the same shop as a heroin addict) Folks, how someone became a junkie isn't really up for discussion here....it's crying over spilt milk. The fact is that we have these dependant people and as degsy points out they can more or less hold us to ransom. The money spent to placate their addiction is small beans comapred to the financial costs of crime used to fund a habit and the money leaving the economy and pouring into some drug lord's pocket. You can say "lock them up, let them die" and whatever, but we're a civilised society...as much as many peole might want to do that, we can't... Analogies with drink aren't really applicable unless you're a chronic alcoholic....for most of these people meth doesn't even get them high; it just takes the edge off, kills the craving so they can try and get on with their day to day lives.
Wertz wrote: » If you want to pay for the branding then go right ahead, but you shouldn't expect to have the bill footed for your whim...
Archeron wrote: » http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20001203/ai_n14516176 Arent we all just perfect examples of humanity here on boards.ie SNIP Of course, it doesnt involve us, so who gives a f*ck. What a delightful attitude.
Savman wrote: » ROFL!
Savman wrote: » Its a world none of us understand and "you always fear what you don't understand". That was in Batman Begins. Good movie.
Wertz wrote: » kills the craving so they can try and get on with their day to day lives.
Archeron wrote: » Of course, it doesnt involve us, so who gives a f*ck. What a delightful attitude.
Dragan wrote: » Can i just ask why you feel that comment was worthy of a laugh?
I believe that film also had the quote "It's not who i am underneath, but what i do that defines me."?
I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you.
rbd wrote: » i don't think he belives you
rbd wrote: » I do feel that it should be a programme of depletion (of methadone not junkies) not of maintaince
Savman wrote: » While I agree with your sentiments, you have to accept that the keyboard warriors here on boards is a fair reflection of society as a whole. That's kinda the way Ireland is these days, the attitude of "brush it under the carpet and as long as them junkies stay away from me then they can die a horrible death for all I care." Me me me me. Ignorance is bliss. Most people **** themselves if a junkie so much as asks them the time. Its not the heroin addicts that are going around with guns shooting everything in sight. Do not confuse junkies with scumbags.
Wertz wrote: » That's a very good point....methadone programmes have merely been outsourced to pharmacy shops by the HSE as a way to avoid them having to have dedicated clinics and staff. That's not to say that pharmacists don't make a good wage out of it (if they didn't why would they jeopardise potential business from "normal" customers whom 99% of probaly don't want to stand in the same shop as a heroin addict) but ultimately it's just another cost cutting excersise....soemthing the HSE seem to be good at in terms of patients; less so with their 20 layers of beauracracy...
Wertz wrote: » Oh definitely....I've been trying to find answers on google but medical opinions seem to vary widely on how long methadone programmes should last. Some say months, some say years. But replacement therapy, if it's working, should definitely be with an eye to weaning people off the replacement substance too. You shouldn't even need to tell addicts that you're doing this (as the addiction is very psycological at this stage)...merely cutting their dosage every month by a few mg should eventually train any dependant into non-dependence. BTW methdaone itself has a much harsher withdrawl phase than heroin, which is kind of ironic...the cold turkey period also lasts longer. All that and it doesn't even get you pinned....bummer.
Savman wrote: » The whole argument of "my mate is from Finglas and he doesnt own a horse" is so ridiculous it defies any logical response. Many people from Finglas are successfull career folk. But some own horses. And some are gun toting scum. That statement is such a cliche, it makes me laugh when people use it trying to make a serious point, because it really doesnt prove anything.
Savman wrote: » Maybe, but isn't Batman the defender of weak and vulnerable?
is_that_so wrote: » I recall Pearse Street clinic he mentions and had I needed to, would certainly not have been inclined to go near the place with the constant gathering of junkies outside.
rbd wrote: » if a junkie asks they time is it more likley he ; 1..wants yer mobile 2..wants to know what time the methadone is ready 3..is on his way to a job interview and due to traffic has been delayed and feels he may need to ring ahead to explain
Savman wrote: » What does it matter, by the time you tell him the time he's forgotten he's asked. By picking on the heroin junkies, you're really just picking on the weak, vulnerable and/or stupid.
People who really have no clue and are not of sound mind. It's no different than bullying someone with a disability because that's what these people have
They can be waned off the stuff over time, let's see you try wane a pistol out of the dealers hand. Who's worse here, the guy injecting the stuff or the guy driving a Merc on the profits? It's a vicious circle, and you're just picking on the little guy cos, like the rest of us, you're afraid of the big guy.
yom 1 wrote: » For your information I dont avail of any HSE funded schemes so if I need drugs (which thankfully I dont that often) I pay for it fully, 100% me, my money, my choice. I dont expect anyone to pay for my WHIM.... but that was a first class effort in making an assumption! Like I said I can understand where the HSE is coming from but likewise the IPU knows that its, shall we say older more fussy clients, off whom they make most of their money, will not want to be given generic drugs.
Wertz wrote: If you want to pay for the branding then go right ahead, but you shouldn't expect to have the bill footed for your whim...
Dragan wrote: » While i see your point the simple fact is that the reasons some of the people with heroin problems were offering up for why they started using were similarly cliche "it was all around me" , "everyone was doing it" , "what was i supposed to do". I think we all know people who have hard lives and easy lives and i think we all know people from both paths who might have some kind of substance issue and some from both paths who have made a great success of themselves? The simple fact is that at each stage , for each person , a choice was made and accepting some responsibility for yourself never goes astray.
Savman wrote: » Leaving Batman aside, I full accept that these people have made a conscious decision to take the first hit. After that it was all downhill. Let me ask, have you never made one wrong decision? Because I see most people making bad life threatening decisions every day on the roads, they get away with it, junkies dont. Once you get in, chances are you don't get out. So while they are fully responsible for the initial dive in, they still need outside help to save them from drowning. I accept and understand the general contempt people have toward the whole thing, but the truth is this kind of dismissive mindset does not make the problem go away. In all my encounters with junkies, I've never been harmed in any way nor have I been mugged or threatened yet on the few encounters I had with local chavs I got enough of a beating to know who the real scum are in this country.
rbd wrote: » thats a skewed persective then and arent chavs english thne little scumbags here 4arent chavs
Savman wrote: » That is not the person they truly are and behind that junkie condition there was a real person once.
moco wrote: » I was listening to the radio this morning and there was this guy on methadone who can't get it saying 'I'm gonna have to go out and rob people now' That's just a disgusting way for anyone to think!
Wertz wrote: Okay, use of the term "you" wasn't general enough....this wasn't intended as an attack on your lifestyle choices, more so a dig at people with that attitude toward generic drugs to begin with. It's none of my business if you buy your pharmaceuticals, have them part funded or fully supplied by the tax payer and I wasn't making that assumption or judging you for it.
Wertz wrote: As for the IPU ending up selling brand names at a loss? Sorry but :rolleyes:
Wertz wrote: » Disgusting yes, but that's his reality. We'd all like to have heard him say "I'm gonna have to go home now and sh*t myself for a week whilst drowning in my own sweat" but he was never going to consider that avenue. Degsy, I'm not ignoring you, you know WTF you're talking about and you make some very valid points....in a lot of cases the junkie lifestyle is chosen and they're proud of it and whatever. I won't accept that they sell meth now (maybe years ago), sure haven't they to swallow it there and then in the pharmacy? I'm not going to pretned to know everything about this....like everyone, I have a skewed perspective (FFS who doesn't?) and I can only take people at their word, but of what junkies I know or have met in my area, most of them want to try and quit the gear, to get back to normal life....they know taking it was a mistake and now their lives are ruled by it. These people would be of a different generation of junkies than the old school dubs that this dispute is mainly effecting, which may be the difference...
Wertz wrote: I won't accept that they sell meth now (maybe years ago), sure haven't they to swallow it there and then in the pharmacy?
