It's Osborne and "the coach views the young player as more valuable in a different position" is a completely different argument to "the coach always goes back to the tried and tested"
I agree that I'd prefer to see Osborne at 12 but Henshaw came in cause we had no one else to play 15 anyway.
There's no shortage of young lads who could've been worth trying out in that match. Postlewaithe, Gavin, Forde, Tector, Cooney etc. We learn nothing from playing the same old bunch.
I don’t really disagree but the idea that he picks exclusively on form as a rolling policy isn’t true either. Healy was playing well by his sell by date, arguably so was pom. Their replacements are not a big drop down so who can say that wouldn’t have been the case a campaign or a season earlier? NZ drop players once their form dips, the replacements aren’t always better but it leaves players knowing there is a very tiny margin of error that will be tolerated. See Riko this season. Established Irish players have a lot more wiggle room, and they know it.
You've named 4 x 13s there and the other guy hasn't nailed down either center spot yet.
I suppose that's because you have "haven't learned anything" about them yet.....
over the years I’ve seen the Asterisk mentioned besides loads of sporting achievements and honesty can’t remember what most of them were for. It’s used a a put down and made out to be a big deal and is generally just nonsense
As far as Connacht players are concerned there's a fair few that should be in consideration. They've all been around the A and emerging teams.
The one I'd say should be a starter for Ireland is Gavin at 13. He's an incredible player already. Cian Prendergast and Sean Jansen are two excellent back rows. Cathal Forde is a 12 and really needs to get looked at, not sure if he's good enough for Ireland but he's been solid for Connacht.
The other one that needs serious looking at is Shayne Bolton, he might be the best 11 in the country, he's rock solid.
those 13s could've been played yes? Given they're likely to be in contention by 2027. It's not just 12 where there are options aplenty. Forde and Tector both have been playing at 12 primarily also.
Charlie Tector? For Ireland? Sweet jesus.
The backline against Japan featured a player making his debut, a player earning his fourth cap, a player earning his tenth cap and a former first-choice player trying to find his way out of the test wilderness. In what sense is this the "same old bunch"?
The fixation on Henshaw is absolutely bizarre. People have turned against him so much that they can't see the wood for the trees.
It's also completely overlooked that he played well against both Japan and Australia.
Rubbish, Joe's Irish record will always be qualified by that failure, as will Farrel's if he fails again.
Why? Because Ireland fail to win a knock out match. That's a very odd barometer for success. Being ranked number 1 in the world is a much more meaningful.
I think that's the point tho.
Nobody really remembers astericks mentioned besides loads of sporting achievements, but loads of people remember them against sporting failures.
The QF ceiling is going to remain a millstone around the neck of every Irish coach until it's broken.
Both these coaches have had plenty of success but if you think anyone (including them) considering their tenure will gloss over the failure to win a WC knockout you'r kidding yourself.
I never said that did I?
Referring to your point about winning a knockout being a "very odd barometer for success". It's fairly significant barometer for a coach of the world's number 1 team.
What to lose a knock out game. It happens. To be the best ranked team takes a body of work not a random 80 minutes
Is the rugby World Cup the only show in town and the four years between just filler. I don’t think we can say that for all teams. Not for the 6 nations countries where the tournament actually means something, not for Argentina who are fighting to build themselves into a dominant force. Certainly not for Australia who are chasing a return to their good days.
I think it is fair to say O’Sullivan kidney Schmidt and Farrell have all made mistakes at World Cup time. But they also achieved a lot great things and Ireland have been very successful over the last 25 years. Irish rugby improved even to a new level in the last 5 years but we still have required some imports like Aki, Hansen and park to make the leap and that’s the rub. Rugby Is more popular then it ever was but still it is far behind other sports in popularity with GAA no 1 by a distance in many parts of the country. For Irish rugby to build the depth required to consistently challenge for World Cups the game has to grow more deeply into rural Ireland and that is the challenge the IRFU face, if it goes after the GAA heartlands the GAA will have no problem punching back regards access to Croke park and other facilities.
All in all, when you look at the health of the four provinces and the international team and factor in the low overall playing numbers , the population of the island and the very tight budget required to run rugby teams especially top level academy programmes, we are punching well above our weight.
Ireland’s consistency at the top table was remarkable when you think about it.
So your ONLY two suggestions for starting at 12 for Ireland against Australia are Charlie Tector (no need to progress that madness any further) or Cathal forde, a guy who has switched between 12 and 13 for connacht, and who's most recent appearance in front of the Irish coaches was benching for Ireland A against Spain.
Fair to say that your learnings have a long way to go.
And to repeat for emphasis, we hockied Australia. Record points scored and record winning margin.
"Tried and tested" didn't do too bad did they.....
Fun fact. France have never won the RWC and have not won a knockout match since the 2011 final.
Is the current French team and coach considered more of a success because a load of retired players and a coach widely regarded as a disaster won two matches, 14 years ago?
You can take RWCs into consideration but dismissing Farrell's many achievements because we lost to NZ by a single score in one match is absolutely bananas.
Actually that "we learned nothing" quote is really sticking in my craw.
Who learned nothing??? Us fan.....
Who has been learning over the last two years?? The Irish coaches.
by having over 80 different players (I haven't counted to be exact, could be more) between the senior squad, the A squad and the emerging squad.
"Us fans" think we are somehow deserving of seeming our fav player or our provisional player start every game, and not just the tier 2's. "Us fans" think we deserve to get to shout for the dropping of a player we don't like, or a player we think isn't doing what they are supposed to do, or somehow god forbid makes a mistake.
At the end of the day whether "us fans" learn nothing or not is completely inconsequential to the running and selection of the Irish test team. Giving out about a team selection because "we learned nothing" shows nothing but a complete lack of comprehension as to the relationship in sports between the fans and the teams.
If a coach decides that player A just doesn't have it at test level, they are under zero obligation to start that player in a test game just to show the fans that the player isn't at that level. But that's what some fans here think should happen. Safe in the complete lack of knowledge as to why the coach doesn't think the player is good enough.
Are you happy so to go to RWC 27 with Henshaw,Aki,Stu & Ringrose?
Fun fact. The OP didn’t dismiss Farrell’s achievements. In fact, he said he was “very happy with Farrell”.
But at the end of his tenure, Farrell’s RWC record will be a significant part of determining his success or otherwise. It’s not the be all and end all. But it is important in the context of judging any Irish head coach 1) because of our record there, and 2) because of our comparative success outside of it.
I'm willing to lay good money that those four will not be our first choice four centers for rwc 2027.
Do YOU think they will be?
You bring up a fair few points here thomas. i dont think world cup is only show in town for pretty much everyone. 6 nations will be core to IRFU plans as its rightfully/wrongly so key to rugbys financial future in Ireland. Hansen isnt same as Aki/Gibson Park. I dont think you can put the 3 in same category. Rugby will never get near GAA in playing numbers/overall reach of active membership but can in casual/tv support etc. Rugby has grown extensively in rural ireland and will do more over next few years as clubs keep expanding and new clubs/schools taking up the sport. GAA wont punch back about access to Croke Park as they dont see a need to stop Leinster from playing occasional game there as Ireland wont be moving games there any time soon and even then Leinster wont play in Croker again when RDS is done up. Same with Munster and PuC. Its a commercial decision and they see benefits of getting rent etc in to grounds otherwise not in use. The overall numbers playing rugby/involved in the sport(coaching/reffing etc) arent that low
I think all four will go...would I be happy about it...not really.
Who are the 4 so to displace them as first choice?
We went from winning one 6N title in 40 years to winning 3 out of 6 that Joe coached us for. There is no asterisk whatsoever against his name.
I think it's brilliant that Ireland can be the No1 rugby team in the world. That's no mean achievement., however, the one time we get to play the rest of world in competitive rugby we fail to get passed the QF Stage and that's heartbreaking, probably more so because we've been rated the No1 team in the world.
No need to displace ringrose from the squad. He'll only be 32 at rwc27.
I can't see aki travelling at all. Robbie is young enough to go if his form continues upwards. Same for big stu.
Osbourne should travel. Frawley should also probably travel. Jude can certainly force his way in there. He's been part of Irish squads from the last two years so he's someone that they are see certainly putting time into. I think one of the two connacht lads had a chance, but if it's too be forde he needs to displace aki for the big games asap.
Dan Kelly had already been looked at in camp and it within his hands to grab the jersey. I feel time will catch up on tom Farrell, who is two years older than ringrose.
As to who the actually starting centers will be in 22 months time, I think it's a fools errand to even try to predict.
Stu & ringrose are certs.
Robbie has a lot of hard miles on the clock on comparison to Stu so age isn't the only factor imo.
Osbourne will go but play where...nobody knows & he's not getting a crack at 12 for various reasons.
My concern is we are 17 games out from RWC & historically the Italy game is only real game in 6n's to tinker with, possibly add Wales into that now.
Guesstimate 8 games to play around with at best is not alot of games to bed in a new partnership.
You can't tinker too much against Italy nowadays. Very good side now.
I'm not debating the wider point about which is the greater achievement, but winning a RWC QF was an explicit, quantifiable measure of success in the report that came out of our failure at the RWC 2019 RWC.
That was a target, that was a parameter set by the IRFU itself. It's not just a wooly fans' notion.
