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It's on the websites of Irish & British papers now!
EDIT RTE website article 15mins ago.
In fairness, that’s how every European empire thought until 1914. Russia’s problem is that it never matured into a modern European state existing peacefully and respectfully beside its neighbours. When we talk to them about international relations we are travelling back to the 19th century in many ways.
So now some mansion in Killiney could be home to four drones with warheads and the operators that can fly four drones and threaten a Navy ship. And these being with nightvision.
Chemical plant in putin's terrorist state has mysteriously caught fire again.
If I believed Martin, FF and the coalition were acting bona fides and were not making some kind of attempt to appear hard line and right wing with Russia I would say haha.
They are not, all in, as they are painting themselves to be, and they are playing a very dangerous game. If they aren't going to commit troops to fight Russia, Ireland should have been pointing out Russia's errors at the beginning, stating our position and then staying out of it.
To goad and provoke them at this time is not a good strategy to take as a country if we do not intend on following through to the end. This likewise applies to most posters on here acting the hardmen.
The West has so betrayed Ukraine since independence until 2022. Disarming them of nukes and then under the Bush admin of their long range missiles to curry favour with Russia. And now wanting them to trust us with security guarantees that have no teeth.
Also Trump sees it as about land. But to the people living there its their lives, homes, property, businesses. Would you give up all that without security guarantees if Ireland was invaded?
To be fair, Ireland is not a member of NATO so its more the West generally than Ireland specifically. I think CC Verona Murphy's speech balanced very well the feelings of the people here, of supporting Ukraine without fighting in the war. But I think NATO should provide concrete security guarantees. They need to stand up to Russia like JFK and Reagan did, buit without a nuclear war.
But I have reservations about those who say under no circumstances should there be war with Russia. I think if a country is attacked, then they have a right to defend themselves. Europeans often forget the sacrifices their ancestors made against tyrants like Putin, only then they were called kings. And the kings that survived were those who gave up their powers to elected governments.
As far as I am aware there is no court judgement supporting that and it seems like an overly broad interpretation of Article 29 to me. Ukraine, as an example, is fundamentally adhering to international law in defending itself - the only transgressor of international law is Russia.
The clause preventing us from joining an EU common defence is an abomination birthed by the nonsense Lisbon Treaty campaign. Ironically there is nothing stopping us constitutionally joining NATO.
Ultimately it would need to be tested in court - which won't happen as we won't be supplying arms - but I do not believe it is remotely clear cut.
The foreign aid spending by European countries is large (116bn USD by my quick check), but the money needed by Ukraine to win (estimated as anything up to 977bn USD over 4 years) is larger so even if all the European states zeroed their entire foreign aid budgets and sent it all to Ukraine instead (lets assume Ukraine isn't in the foreign aid figures already) for 4 years it still wouldn't be enough. That is even discounting the rampant corruption in Ukraine diverting the funds or that Ukraine is running out of manpower as much as money.
The bigger problem is that the UK, France and Germany are all financially struggling and talking about making heavy cuts and/or raising taxes. Starmer, Merz and Macron are all intensely unpopular with voters. It is not politically viable to make massive cuts domestically while sending tens of billions abroad. People would want any savings in the foreign aid budget to benefit their hospitals, schools, etc. This is why stealing the Russian funds is being discussed at all. It is a desperately bad idea, but they are desperate.
As for the experience of Russian recruits, everything we know indicates it does go better for them. The ratio of exchange of dead soldiers between the two sides is heavily skewed against the Ukrainians. In June, 6,060 Ukrainians were exchanged for 78 Russians. In Sept, more than 1,000 Ukrainians for 24 Russians. In Oct, another thousand Ukrainians for 31 Russians. In November, 1,000 dead Ukrainians for 30 dead Russians.
Oh, another 'Ukraine is corrupt' for my bingo card
if all the European states zeroed their entire foreign aid budgets and sent it all to Ukraine instead (lets assume Ukraine isn't in the foreign aid figures already) for 4 years it still wouldn't be enough.
what's the other option though? what should Ukraine do? what should Europe do? how else should we stop the invading Russian army?
or do we just let Russia win? and genocide an entire country out of existence?
See it there now. I would of thought would of been more a news story on rte. Should be.
Nice
A cyber attack from russia in 2021 cost the Health Service Executive in Ireland 102million euro in direct costs and the majority of the 10billion euro worth of leased aircraft seized by russia when they launched their all out invasion of Ukraine in 2022 were owned by Irish companies. If anything Ireland has been very reserved in its response to putin's terrorist state's war against Europe.
I think we should be setting up factories to manufacture air defense and multi use drones to more directly help Ukraine cope with continued attacks from putin's terrorists.
Do they think the public are that stupid?
How are military-grade drones going to be launched in Ireland?
However, if its proven, them MANNA is finished as a business.
Interesting points there I hadn't thought about recently. To be honest I have been avoiding this in the news of any sort and I just thought, the dark nature of global events, recently, is getting too costly and tiresome. Not tiresome as in, I am not interested in people suffering, but tiresome in the way of slowly degenerating into contagion and global conflict.
Having seen your post and point, I would say yes, I would certainly want security guarantees. I thought about this around 3 months ago and my quick calculation was give up the land but Russia would have to agree to them joining NATO and the EU. That's not me revising what I said above I genuinely came to that conclusion.
The question now is - what is NATO going to be in the medium to long future - America wants out with good reason. That leaves Europe defending itself. So what we would pay now anyway for war which is really too costly for Europe, will have to be paid if we capitulate and give up Ukraine of funding and support.
The question is, are we willing to pay now, save some of Ukraine, or capitulate, and not save it, to save us from global conflict or, at least, the rest of the world vs Europe, with America chickening out for reasons of end game not being good for them in case of global conflict.
In short, Europe can't afford this financially, we can't afford it if it slowly expands globally, and the end game is a loss for the West also. It's not a nice decision to make but I hate to see Europe fighting when it doesn't want to becuase it can preserve itself by giving up Ukraine.
And that is not me backing Trump or America's plan. I want nothing but failure for Trump but I feel it's his generals and the whole security apparatus there making these calls.
Russia invades Ukraine. Ukraine's fault. Russia rapes women. Ukraine's fault. Russia kills prisoners of war. Ukraine's fault. Russia castrates and beheads prisoners of war. Ukraine's fault. Russia kidnapps children and kills their parents. Ukraine's fault. Russia kills those pro Ukraine in filtration camps. Ukraine's fault.
Russia invades Ukraine. NATO's fault. Russia rapes women. NATO's fault. Russia kills prisoners of war. NATO's fault. Russia castrates and beheads prisoners of war. NATO's fault. Russia kidnapps children and kills their parents. NATO's fault. Russia kills those pro Ukraine in filtration camps. NATO's fault.
To point the above as BS. Is not provoking. It's the Russian position. Their position is to kill and intimidate and get what they want from foreign politicians from intimidation. Pointing to four drones operating from Killiney is not goading it's the continuing intimidation of Putin's government and possibly assassination attempt outside of Russia that is the modis operandi of the dictator Putin. Four drones with possibly warheads attached to bring a plane down is all likely Putin's doing.
If the European Union is to function it can't be dictated to and have it's politicians ruled by fear from Putin and pandering to please those crimes above for fear of intimidation to their own lives and family.
Those who warned in the early 1990s about the dangers of trading with countries with dubious human rights records have been vindicated in my opinion. The politicians didnt listen because corporations wanted into the Russian market, into Russian oil, gas, mining etc. Trump in the 1900s was bankrupt after the failure of the Taj Mahal Casino and then mysteriously he was alright again.
Even Marco Rubio admitted in 2016, when a primary challenger of Trump, that Trumps businesses had declared bankruptcy 4 times.
The Guardian reported in 2017 that Deutsche Bank lent $300 million to Trump and that Deutsche Bank bank was linked to Russian money laundering. Doesnt prove anything against Trump but still.
There is a pattern in the West of some business people who get into bankruptcies and then suddenly are saying nice things about Vladimir Putin and are then out of bankruptcy. We've seen it in Ireland sometimes too.
Chance here to answer @Sand and show you're not just soapboxing with your far right compatriots.
The first thing that needs to be done is to stop doing the failed policies that got Ukraine and Europe into this problem in the first place. At every point in the crisis, going back to at least 2013/14 Europe has constantly pushed for no compromises and to always escalate, claiming that Russia will collapse if just a bit more pressure is put on it. For almost 12 years now, with objectively awful results for Ukraine and the EU.
The Ukrainians are suffering terribly. Their country is wreaked. They have not benefitted from the coup and the conflict that followed. EU has no plan to win, or even change things. It isn't going to fight for Ukraine. Its just keep doing more of the same that already failed when they actually had stockpiles of weapons and money to send. They don't anymore. But the EU has no new ideas.
Meanwhile the US and Russia negotiate over the heads of the EU. I don't think those talks will go anywhere - but the EU isn't even dignified with a seat at the table. They're not taken seriously by either side.
It's been a remarkably slow moving story, I thought it would be huge news, basically a narrowly escaped assassination attempt if true and an act of blatant terrorism on EU territory, surely only by Russian agents.
How will the EU respond? No doubt with finger wagging and "strong words".
Pathetic. It should be war against Russia
Trump says Putin wants to end the war.
A day later Putin literally says he does not want to end it, like a rapist it's "give it up or I take it by force"
Rte news are not carrying the drone story and Irish times has relegated it from top story to minor story. Maybe there's still uncertainty around what really happened?
Another reason to join NATO
@Sand "They have not benefitted from the coup"
That old coup trope again…
Or they are trying to avoid the embarrassment of it. Terrible optics for us.
So far the EU haven't even wagged a finger. Zelensky came close to being annihilated in the skies over Ireland and not a word from anyone in condemnation. Unidentified military type drones flying around for 2 hours and no-one tracked them to see where they came from or where they went. A flock of seagulls flying around dublin airport would cause more consternation. WHY?
I’m a reasonable guy. Just give me everything I want and there’ll be no more trouble.
I wonder is the drone story simply a rouse in some way designed to give us the kick up the arşě we badly need to get our act together in this regard….
Oooooh, let's see if this is true.
massive Ukranian drone strike on Russia this evening
