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https://x.com/jurgen_nauditt/status/1992470232766497191?s=20
Can we get an update from the concerned when they see nuclear weapons flying overhead towards Ukraine?
duplicate
“Both sides” how very neutral sounding.
Alas here I come to ruin it all yet again by asking if you any objection or comment on the Russian practice of bombing Ukrainian children in their beds. Care to offer your input…or shall we allow the embrace of silence to illustrate a picture of…”neutrality”
Mod - we've said bon voyage to monseiur for now so no need to quote him.
Monseiur , your post gives a fairly detailed side of the Ukr position re its leader, his character, his laughable skills in the context of being a national leader, corruption, etc.
I am now looking forward to your post on Putin and covering the same areas. It should not take you long because Putin has been in poser - and around power for so long that you are ‘spoiled’ with reams of information , documents, knowledge, press conferences, etc, etc, etc.
‘————- weakening the Ukr military’ FOR STARTERS.
A good hit
Russia has now given IT’s 28 point plan to the US that will bring the SMO to an end. In order to bring a ‘bit of balance ‘ to the process of being an end to the war Trump should now invite the Ukr to submit its ‘28 point ‘ plan
‘ Schoolboy’ stuff Recom JD. It is the Us that has no idea of the overall picture ie A sovereign state has been invaded. And continues its SmO in a most BrUtAL way and Ukr MUST be urgently assisted to send RU back to the pre 2014 borders FULL STOP
State Department spokesman effectively saying that what Republican Senator Mike Rounds said Rubio told Senators is "blatently false".
I believe Rounds. King also says it. This was written by Russia. It even has Russianisms in the text.
Marco Rubio stating the framework for negotiations is based on input from both sides.
Seems to be some division in the Trump administration over the plan or else they are starting to distance themselves from it. Senator Mike Rounds says he spoke to Rubio who said it was not a US proposal but one that was received.
As Michael Weiss posts on X about this:“So either King, Rounds and everyone else up here are lying about what Rubio told them (which is what the State spox just tweeted out) or there is some late attempt to disown this thing. How can Ukraine, Europe go to Geneva when U.S. Senators are saying they're meant to negotiate a "Russian wish list" put in front of them by American officials?”
It’s a well known Russian tactic to ask for the impossible, it’s just Bizarro world strange to have the US president as their mouthpiece.
But, I see this Russian move as a great sign Russia is in trouble. Their economy HAS to be in trouble… hence the Gold sell off. But, Russia also knows there’s a clock ticking on agent Krasnov’s power and therefore usefulness.
Currently President Trump has, in his own parlance, holds all the cards. The Supreme Court (his appointee’s), and both the Senate and House. This gives him dictator/Monarch like powers. A dream for Putin. But, time is ticking. That power looks to have a shelf life of about a year, thanks to the upcoming mid terms, when it’s very much looking like the Republicans will get a drubbing. MAGA is split, where some do care if he is a Paedophile. He’s also a disaster on the economy… and there is no hiding from the cost of living crises. His blaming of Biden is looking more and more ridiculous.
His Lowness, might be humbled a lot sooner, if the Supreme Court rules against his Tariffs. I give that a better than 50/50 chance. It may not take much before Republicans see Trump as more of a hindrance than help in their reelection. The turn, with Trump going from all powerful to being a lame duck, could happen very quickly.
To summarise/ TLDR Fùck Trump and doubly Fúck Putin.
Does the confirmation it’s a Russian “peace plan” not do the opposite? Removes pressure from Ukraine, surely.
Trump proposing it gave it a veneer of respectability. Now, with this confirmation, it makes Trump look weak and foolish (actually read “weaker” and “more foolish”).
Deliberately leaked to put pressure on Ukraine?
It's a Russian-made list of demands, this is starting to be confirmed now by US senators.
https://x.com/nickschifrin/status/1992359070435582150
Why would the Russians object to it? It’s basically their plan and brings nothing but trouble for Ukraine.
My understanding is it's an American proposal having taken into consideration different viewpoints including the Russians. The Russians most likely won't agree to it if it's substantially amended in Geneva. Zelensky won't split the alliance by rejecting it, It'll just mean a continuation on the present course until one side flinches.
The problem is the baseline for negotiations is tantamount to what Germany faced in 1918 and 1945 when they were either facing inevtiable total impending collapse (1918) or an actual collapsed nation (1945).
Ukraine holds a lot of the territory Russia wants, territory Russia has very little chance of seizing by force at the current rate. It has strong, fortified positions, and an intact military that is inflicting horrific casulties on Russia.
A baseline of "give us everything we want, strip your military, forego NATO and forget about the horrific warcrimes we comitted while reintegrating our barbaric nation back into the global economy penalty free" is no baseline at all.
It's just not realistic even as a starting point.
Trump is about as reliable as a paper condom. His opinion changes with the wind, whatever his personal motive. Just a few weeks ago he was waxing about how Ukraine might win back all its territory, now he's pushing a deal that goes Mach 3 in the opposite direction.
Nothing gets signed unless all sides agree. Trump said it himself: If Zelensky doesn't have anything to stop the war then fight on
It gets worse, the entire US administration is ran by complete morons.
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/russian-wish-list-lawmakers-say-marco-rubio-told-them-leaked-28-point-peace-plan-for-ukraine-is-not-trumps-deal/
Why would the Russians object to it? It’s basically their plan and brings nothing but trouble for Ukraine. If Zelensky rejects it he may split the alliance but if he accepts it as is he’ll certainly split his own country. He has to hope that Trump will get distracted by another shiny object very soon.
So it's gone from a deal on the table that Ukraine has to accept by a Thanksgiving deadline (no mention of Russia accepting, then again it's their proposal) to just a framework…. Is it normal for people to sign a deal and then that deal turns into a framework? I always assumed they sign a framework and then work towards a deal?
Trump is pushing for talks. His 28 point plan is what him or his team thinks might be a resolution. He has stated it's a framework to base negotiations on and is not a final document. People are getting unnecessarily fretful over it. The Ukrainians or the EU don't have to accept any of it. The Americans are getting high level teams from the US, Ukraine, and Europe together in Geneva tomorrow to work out a negotiating position.
Yes, Trump and Co are pushing for a resolution. Nobody has to accept any of it, not the Ukrainians, but also not the Russians.
After 1990, Russia could have prepared itself for reconciliation with Europe, maybe even EU membership, like a normal country. Instead it chose the path of a 19th century empire, attacking and terrifying its neighbours. Let’s hope a day of reckoning is not too far off for the tsars’ wretched successor.
Every country has corruption. As a former Soviet republic, Ukraine had the worst possible start in this regard but is trying hard to root the disease out, unlike Russia where corruption remains the norm.
I like the way Ukraine is required by the Trump (Putin) plan to have an election within 100 days whereas Russia hasn’t had a proper one of those in Lord knows how many years.
Ridiculous, the tells Ukraine to agree to the demands by thanksgiving and then says they are not the final demands. Despite the crap you read, both the Dems & GOP support Ukraine and can see Putin for who he really is. They may disagree with the funding etc… but by and large they support Ukraine and see Russia as the agressor.
Maybe in light of the vote on Epstein files, the GOP will grow a backbone.
What is shiþ is that this was so predictable and that even if it is walked back to any extent it seems inevitable it will resurface in another month or so.
Has this episode put an end to the supposed talk of harsher sanctions on Russia?
Were they due to come into effect around now? (conveniently)
That last part is probably the most likely. He's already walking back the plan saying it's not the final draft etc. He's facing a lot of pushback from Republicans over it too.
Exactly. Putin's strategy with this plan is to make Trump to lean on Zelensky. If Zelensky agrees with the plan, this will deal a huge blow to the Ukraine's morale and will damage Zelensky's credibility, weakening the will of Ukrainian people to fight. If he doesn't agree with the plan, no more weapons/intelligence data for Ukraine from Trump.
For Putin, it is a good game. He will not stop the war in any case, regardless of whether the plan is accepted or not.
But I think that both Putin and Trump are going to lose here. Trump needs Ukraine now. If he stops all support for Ukraine, it will be bad for him personally — no chance for the Nobel Peace prize, he is seen as a loser who caved to Putin and got nothing in return, and his ratings drop further as most Americans favour Ukraine in the war, plus the USA loses huge money from the EU due to weapons sales.
It is likely that Trump will let the plan's deadline expire and won't stop the intelligence sharing and weapons sales. In that case Putin will be seen as a loser.
