If Byrne shows some decent form in Europe and the Christmas interpros, then he’ll have a reasonable claim for the 6N squad, but until then we don’t really know what his level is.
No
He did have a good game v Argentina A
Are you trying to compare Butler to H Byrne? not really a comparison is it
From what I've seen. Short answer - no
Yes, Tony Butler with 32 minutes this season and 5 career starts, is totally analogous to capped international Harry Byrne.
Tony Butler is getting regular minutes for Munster, should he be brought into the Irish Set-up?
I’m more of a glass-half-full type, to be honest. I think Byrne’s performances this season have been really encouraging. If he keeps getting regular minutes for Leinster, there’s no reason he couldn’t be brought into the Ireland setup. After that who knows
In terms of starts, Byrne went over to Bristol in December as backup for their backup. I wouldn't read too much into his minutes last year! Do you know how many starts Prendergast made for leinster last season?
And just like Prendergast, Harry was parachuted in purely on talent and future potential. No reason not to have another proper look at Byrne, while we wait to see if Prendergast can actually stick a tackle or pose a genuine running threat!?
If Crowley is afforded the same forgiveness for the NZ game that sam was given all last year, and Crowley can come back with the form that destroyed leinster a few weeks ago, I'll be happy.
Someone pointed out that the midfield and the backs in general had no penetration or creativity, this can't be stressed enough. no linebreaks compared to 6 (or 7) from NZ is an embarrassment.
The backs from the A game can't be ignored Balacoune Postlethwaite and Kelly were electric.
A good 10 makes it a lot easier for everybody.
Giving up scrum penalties should be added to the list. But the players have the pedigree and the new kids have tons of ability. If this is the bottom and we can start to rebuild from here Ill be very happy.
People need to stop obsessing over the outhalves. The real problem is the platform. The midfield has been blunt, predictable and offering absolutely nothing in terms of creativity or go-forward. And the lineout is coughing up possession like we don’t actually want the ball. Until Ireland fix those basics, it wouldn’t matter if you had Byrne, Crowley, SP or prime Sexton at 10 , they’d all look bang average behind the same slow ball and zero shape.
His appearances for Leinster this year have looked good though. He also played some great games for Bristol. I think the argument that getting away from Leinster for a season, in a different environment, different priorities and a different coach may have had a good effect on him. He's only ever been coached by Leo with some interludes in Ireland camp. I don't pay much attention to him but intuitively a break like that can be very positive. And Im not sure he's much worse than the other two at the moment. We'll see how it goes for SP on Saturday but on the evidence so far neither himself nor Crowley will be coming out of this series with a spring in their step.
I think the Harry Byrne reigniting his career in Bristol arc is a bit much. He played fewer minutes last season than the season before and starter fewer matches. He started 7 games for Bristol, 2 of which were in the Premiership Cup.
Once McGinty was back he basically disappeared - he had 31 minutes of gametime from April til the end of the season.
Harry Byrne had the humility to go to Bristol and benefited from it. He's playing really well since he returned, and looks like a guy who has changed his attitude. It's insane to write him off.
I think Harry, when he's playing in the form he is currently, is a better all around player than the other 2. Not to say that they can't develop and overcome their deficiencies. There's a ways to go til Feb, and given Farrell's general attitude of giving lads a lot of runway, I doubt he'd be quick to move on.
There's a tension bubbling in the team, of players being picked on reputation over form, where the potential exists for a rapid change in the complexion, especially in the backs. When you look at the WC, 9 thru 13 are spots that could see a lot of change over.
Byrne did well with Bristol when he got a good run. He never got that before, he's still young and possibly has a lot more to offer than the other two. He needs to get a shot if he's doing it for Leinster.
100%. I just think we should draw a line under Frawley, Carbery, Byrne.
its a while since i read it but as far as i remember, in rob kearneys book he said JC was becoming the preferred option at 15 for the leinster coaches but Schmidt preferred Kearney, it was hinted there was some IRFU intervention and JC then went back to covering 10 from the bench
I think the idea is that in 22 months time, when the RWC actually begins, one or two of them will indeed be the finished article, or as near to their peak as they're going to be.
Your suggestion is probably preaching to the converted. Andy Farrell above all people knows that he didn't have another Jonny Sexton waiting in the wings. Most teams don't.
Currently, I don't think any of Crowley, Prendergast, Frawley, Carbery or H. Byrne are good enough to get us through to the pointy end of RWC knockout games. I think we'd be much better off working out a play style around that, rather than endlessly trying tens until they each prove they're not the finished article. A number of those players are quite young, and you'd expect will improve (or need to improve) some aspects of their game.
Connacht have to do what's best for Connacht and bringing in a part time injury prone or inconsistent out half is not in the best interest imo. I definitely don't want to see either. We don't need cover at centre or full back either.
If he does it will be at the expense of one-off the two current incumbents. I don't see us ever starting 3 10s in the 6 Nations unless injury is a factor.
He's playing well though, it will be interesting to see what happens at Leinster over the next two months.
If he stays healthy, and playing the way he has, I expect Harry to start at least 1 game in the 6Ns.
Is it not patently clear that the only 10 to challenge Crowley & Prendergast into RWC 27 is Harry Byrne ? 3 games like he had in his past 2 and he’s right up there in contention I would have thought well ahead of all others mentioned
Frawley did well at 12 last year, with Osborne at 13. He's a 12, and should be left to play there.
I think he could be a very good 12 if we left him there, but it was never likely to happen in any game of note with Henshaw at Leinster. He's absolutely nothing but a stopgap cover at 10 though.
You're not missing anything on Frawley really. I think a lot of the calls made online for him to play at 10 are coming from people who haven't watched him regularly.
Lancaster and Cullen assessed him every day in training for years and decided that the Byrne brothers were better 10's. In terms of athleticism Frawley has the advantage over all of them. But his decision making and technique frequently let him down when he was playing at flyhalf. Passes would go behind the intended recipient or to the inside shoulder, forcing them to check their run.
I like that he has the balls to make the big play. We wouldn't have beaten South Africa in 2024 without him. But clearly he has never demonstrated to the coaches that he's someone that can guide his team through a game.
Not sure you can claim he is going backwards, he is still in the Ireland squad. He played in AI last year and then got injured. His form when he returned meant he wasn't getting into Leinster team. That was form and also recovering from injury
This year his form is better and he is back in Ireland squad.
Would any of the above have changed if he was at another province?
Lancaster played him at 10 early on in his career and then moved him to 12 as the second play maker role, moving him to play under Lancaster again I don't see why he would move him back to playing 10
I would be delighted to see him at full back for Connacht, with options to cover 10. Fair to assume he is still a high % goal kicker
Well if he consistently used him in one or other position, maybe his career could be rebooted, and if good or consistent enough after playing regularly enough in a good team, maybe he'd be an Ireland option in one or the other. As he is he's going backwards at Leinster.
Lancaster moved Frawley from 10 to 12 when he was coaching in Leinster. If Frawley moves now would Lancaster see him as a 10 or a 12 like he did when he coached him at Leinster?
