Edogbo is apparently out til after the AIs.
We should be very capable of handling Japan with Baird or Ahern in the second row I think. Would give a chance for Prendergast to come in at 6.
I'm doubtful Edogbo will be involved, not certain he's rejoining the squad coming off RTP, but I'd welcome his inclusion if he is there.
My team for the weekend would be something like this.
mccarthy kelliher clarkeson ryan beirne baird conan doris jgp crowley lowe osbourne ringrose tob frawley
boyle mccarthy bealham casey prendergast aherne prendergast hansen
Gaaah, forgot that. So, Ryan and Henderson the only options, assuming Ahern is there as a six? Edogbo on the bench?
Said it before and I will say it again, nienabaar getting the leinster gig has been the downfall of leinster and Irish rugby, attacking play, players skillset etc very bad now, ringrose is more of a battering ram now than a creative force he can be, thus issue allied to POC, goodman etc not being up to scratch either has caused us to decline unfortunately
There may be some of that from certain posters but if you ( generally, not you specifically) are starting to see every post through provincial eyes then you will assume that's the case. If you put your Ireland cap on, Crowley was objectively not great at the weekend. Nothing to do with any other player or his club team, just didn't go great. There were some mitigating factors, quality of possession, quality of opposition, lack of previous opportunity etc. But really Jack won't be happy with how it went for him overall.
That being said, moving on. I would select Jack again this weekend and ask him to deliver the coach's plan and fix a few of the errors and deliver a decent win. I would also be asking Sam to come in with the job done and close it out with a mature performance, no headlines just solid.
Izzy is injured. Don't think he travelled, even.
That is the concern though really. The set-piece, mauling and rucks and our forwards play in general is what sets everything up for Ireland. This team, and most teams, are not capable of creating anything without it.
The tight-five without Beirne (who Always plays 80 mins) is going to struggle against good test teams.
My harsh assessment: Porter and Furlong are not what they once were and with respect to Paddy McCarthy, his best days will be ahead of him, and unfortunately for Bealham and Henderson, they are behind them.
Boyle, McCarthy, Clarkson, Ahern need to be selected for Japan and Australia.
I think we'll see a second-string side, most of those who started in Chicago will drop to the bench or out completely. A long flight followed by a short turnaround isn't great player welfare. Maybe something like (assuming Beirne is out):
McCarthy Kelleher Bealham
Ryan Izuchukwu
Ahern Doris Timoney
Casey Prendergast
Stockdale Aki/Henshaw Osborne TOB
JOB
I really hope we see Osborne in the centre, and hope we don't see Henshaw at 13. I think/hope he still has a lot to offer, but only at 12.
I haven’t seen any pundits or match reports describe Crowley’s performance as poor. If you’ve seen something that specifically rates him that way, could you point it out? From what I’ve read, most analyses have mentioned that he wasn’t at his best but stopped well short of calling it a poor showing.
Selection for next game will be interesting, does he pick mainly the same side, injuries aside, and say to them, go win, improve and be ready for last two tougher tests, seems to have been Farrells MO in previous years. what good does resting an underbaked starting 15 do. Changing 10 again will only cause more moaning when it comes to SA game as to who should start, he said he's picked on form, that doesnt change losing to the AB's.
Well I would look at the lineout/ruck work AND the number 13. They are not mutually exclusive.
There have been some comments on Crowley that to me crossed the line into nonsense, but that's largely the same on most topics here.
Most of the criticism of him has been justifiably fair IMO; he had a poor game on Saturday. He wasn't on his own, absolutely, but he was poor. I'm not saying he should be dropped (and don't think I've seen any other posts saying he should), but he certainly didn't bring his form from Croke Park with him.
The over criticism of Crowley when he plays ok (not brilliant) is also beyond ridiculous if you ask me. Sure, he made a few errors and tried things that perhaps weren't on, but many players were sub par on Saturday and even the great Beauden Barrett fluffed a few kicks, one particularly badly (the dimensions of the pitch didn't help the kickers IMO).
I'm guessing it's a push back to SP's dropping and the way he is lambasted from left right and centre for every small misdemeanour, which I don't agree with either. His form I believe is suffering at the moment because of it. Must we hammer these two young 10's every time they make mistakes until they're both devoid of any confidence?
Give any examples, so?
In my synopsis of the game I was critical of Crowley (justifiably), but was more critical of Ringrose, and also flagged Sheehan, O'Brien, Osborne as not really lighting it up. The bulk of my praise was for McCloskey.
MOD EDIT
Is Hansen out for the whole series?
I never mentioned the lineout. You said 'we don't need replacements in either position' So I will ask again. Are you happy with the present incumbent of the number 13 Jersey?
So you are happy with the number 13 position?
I am far more concerned with our backs than our pack. Despite the issues with lineout we had parity up front in terms of possession and territory, its how we used it that bothered me most.
Up front I was happy to see Baird deliver a good performance and Paddy McCarthy looked promising. Agree with everyone that the lineout needs a big fix asap.
Big issues at 10 and 13 and no obvious replacements for me. Farrell and Goodman will need some serious chats about what we are trying to do. Henshaw, Aki, McCloskey and Farrell all in the wrong age bracket regardless of form and we could do with blooding a couple of options but not very fair on guys to be bringing them into a tactical **** show.
His kicking from hand is tragic
I mean, literally his previous game before this (Leinster), which went a long way towards forcing his selection for this game, his kicking from hand was excellent.
It didn't go well for him here, but that doesn't mean his kicking from hand is "tragic".
"Created absolutely nothing" isn't completely accurate either. In the lead up to our try, he did really well, going blindside and offloading to Sheehan for huge inroads, from which Ireland get a penalty, which he kicks to 5m, and we score our try off the resulting lineout.
One of only 3 offloads all day fwiw. And the linebreak stat has been updated to 2 (vs NZ's 6, for example, off more carries).
It's also way more difficult to manufacture a linebreak when your carriers aren't punching holes and commiting defenders as effectively as the opposition (Ireland's post-contact metres were less than half of NZ's 157, vs 320).
That's all part of the context. It was definitely an issue but it can't all be pinned on Crowley.
We already know Crowley is a proven test player based on the 2024 6N and how he played in SA that summer.
We really don't know that, and it's abundantly clear that Andy Farrell didn't either.
We had 5 22 entries, same amount as NZL managed. Maybe the question needs to be rather than the 10 why are we only winning 69% of our lineouts despite having 6 test lions in our pack and then why is our ruck clear out and protection so poor…maybe instead of making excuses let’s actually fix these problems, you could bring Sexton back in at 10…it’s not going to help our test lions win their lineouts and it’s not going to help them clear out and secure ruck ball.
That's literally what I said, so I've no idea what the 'making excuses' bit is about. I literally said that no one player cost us the match and that 80% of them were flat.
Baird was the best Irish forward on the pitch.
Honestly, what game were you watching?
Things are never as good as they seem, and never as bad. I expected ireland to lose that game. If you didn't, you are deluded..
Imo, Jury is still out on TOB to take over the mantle on the right wing. Hard worker but maybe not international quality. I will be keen to see how Balacoune goes against Spain.
Looking forward to seeing Farrell at 13, offers a real attacking treat in the 13 channel.
Stockdale has rediscovered his confidence, so excited to see him go. He still looks as though he lost that edge of pace since he broke into the irish team. Injuries taking there toll I imagine.
Shame for McCloskey and the injury. Looked dominant and dangerous on each carry. Haven't seen Mccloskey look as aggressive at the line in a long time.
I think Harry bryne has to jump prendergast in the pecking order.
Ah come on, Baird had a great end to last season, had a stop start season at the beginning last year but has put in excellent club performances since then.
He warrants his position at present & is showing signs of becoming a leader on lineout calls.
Its up to him to keep his standards up...i don't see another 6 who has shown anything of the consistency he is starting to show....Ahern needs to put a club run together before being considered imo but thats not a pre requisite of Farrell as shown by other selections...thats just my own opinion.
The others you've mentioned have plenty of credit in the bank.
There's alot of knee jerk reaction to Sat.
If it was game 4 of the series & we were to play again I'd fancy us...NZ were there for the taking & a more cohesive team would have performed much better.
Lets wait til all games are played
Exactly we need new blood, nothing against ringrose but as u say all he seems to do is go for the big defensive hit, his creativity is poor, he is very bad to bring his wingers into play preferring to go himself usually, I'm not saying to discard him totally but give someone else a chance at outside center
In fairness, no one is scapegoating anyone - saying player X had a bad game is not the same as player X cost us the match. 80% of the team was so flat that there's plenty of blame to go around
The 10 debate is going to keep going for a number of reasons, but primarily because it's such a pivotal position and we don't have a clear first choice or a proven test level player. Like, Dan Sheehan was pretty poor on Saturday but we know he's probably the best hooker in the game so we can hope it was a once-off. Ringrose was absolutely appalling but he's got years and years of quality performances behind him. We can't say anything remotely similar for any of our options at 10.
Not worried about lineout, its been brutal for 3 or 4 years now, we cough up 3 or 4 per game, and our scrum is always seems to be under pressure
POC clearly isn't coaching them to do what they did on the first lineout for example, but we are in dire need of a change there. Just said it in the match thread, it's depriving us of a primary attacking platform for far too long now. Couple that with Goodman being known for his set-piece launch plays, which we just can't run off lineout now.
Even when we are securing our own lineouts, it's not quality ball and that extra half-second makes all the difference. It seems to be in their heads at the moment too; I'm sure everyone watching was tentative going into the first lineout, and then that happens. POC has to be replaced at this point.
Yeah rinse & repeat, it'll be sorted & collapse again this time nxt year or 6N 27 or more worryingly at rwc 27
Honestly if POC was in any other international set up he'd be gone
