He's one of the most in form Irish players for the last season. I'm delighted for him. As you say, it's makes the summer tour almost inexplicable.
I think Doris might be available for NZ. The podcasts said he might be and might even be available for Leinster this week agaisnt Zebre this week. But I don't know if he's travelling to Chicago today.
Agreed with all of this tbh.
The broader benefit to a selection like this (and TRC said as much in the previous page) is that there has to be some kind of recognition for provincial form, and that provincial players feel there is a pathway for them from province to the Ireland team.
You'd be hard push to argue Farrell doesn't desevere this, even if it did take an injury to Henshaw and Aki. I wouldn't wish injury on anyone, but hopefully if we so unfortunately suffer some in the coming weeks (which is always likely) we'll see a few more calls of this nature.
Cian Prendergast fills that role of backing up Doris and Conan already within the AI squad. Team will probably be something like the following, with a few selection headaches in certain positions:
1 Porter, 2 Sheehan, 3 Furlong, 4 Ryan, 5 Henderson, 6 Beirne, 8 Doris/Conan/C Prendergast, 7 Van der Flier, 9 Gibson-Park, 10 Crowley, 11 Lowe/Stockdale, 12 Aki/Henshaw/McCloskey, 13 Ringrose, 14 T O'Brien/J O'Brien 15 Osborne. 16 Kelleher/G McCarthy, 17 Boyle/McCarthy, 18 Bealham/Clarkson, 19 Baird/Ahern, 20 Conan/Timoney/C Prendergast, 21 Casey/Blade, 22 S Prendergast/Frawley, 23 Henshaw/McCloskey/Lowe/Stockdale/J O'Brien/Bolton/Farrell.
Its not only Ringrose, im of the opinion that Farrell sees Osbourne as the next 13 to be selected if Ringrose goes down.
Hopefully T Farrell will get time against Japan if henshaw is ruled out.
Osbourne is fast becoming the new Frawley, plugging gaps without nailing down a starting position. We've seen so little of him for an extended run in any particular position it's hard to see how he'll go.
Didn't see this comment when I made mine, I'm of the same view. That game at 15 in South Africa was very encouraging but it's such a small sample size still. Very hard for players to break into the Irish team
You're right about Osborne. Played 13 for Leinster in our URC QF and SF victories and was pretty good too. Also started at 13 for Ireland against Georgia and for the Lions.
It's clear that the coaches also view him as well able to cover outside centre at a high level. We just really need him to nail down a permanent position.
I think he was originally named to start at 13 for the Portugal game too, before being pulled out after getting the Lions call up.
I think 12 is his position, don't think he has enough pace to play 13 or 15.
Personally see Osborne as the long-term 12. You'd have to think he's most likely to start at FB in Keenan's absence, but personally I'd be a lot happier if he was being bedded in at 12 now tbh.
I suspect he's probably not an option to start on the wing going forward; narrowing his selection like that might mean more gametime for him at centre at least.
Osborne’s lack of pace was on show against Munster. Got caught in possession and isolated on multiple occasions. He might make an international 12 but he’ll never be a top class back 3 player.
I agree with you about 12 being the position for Osborne long term. He's a good passer, line runner and offloader. His ability to pop out a pass whilst being tackled is something I'd love to see Leinster make more use of.
I'm not sure he fits the mould of inside centre that Farrell and Cullen want though. Aki, Henshaw and McCloskey can bend a defensive line with a direct carry. Osborne isn't as powerful a carrier.
None of them have been particularly effective at that for the last season or so. Far too much head down running into walls from our centres lately. We need players who can threaten a break or use passing to exploit a gap. McCloskey is probably the only one who's actually good at that. Aki has in the past, but he's more prone to boshing now and for all of Ringrose's positive attributes, he's always been a selfish carrier. Gavin and Cooney look very exciting for exactly those reasons, and we've seen the value that Osborne can have at 12. The try he created Vs SA being a great example.
He'd want to be playing v Zebre, as good and all as Doris is it's a tall order to come back after nearly 6 months out of the game straight into a grudge match v NZ.
I’m a fan of Cian Prendergast, but I think he fits the no.6 spot in a similar fashion to POM ie good lineout option and busy player but I don’t think he is in the same class as a carrier as Coombes or able to finish against the physicality that the ABs will bring. If we need a replacement for Doris mid game I’d be a lot happier seeing Coombes coming onto the pitch. Not sure if AF would take that step now though.
It's not always a bad thing. Elliot Daly and Jodie Barrett have made fine careers out of playing across multiple positions.
For sure, I'm just not sure he can do it to as high a standard across all positions. But he gets pulled around so much it's hard to gauge with him. Not sure I like him on the wing and 15.
Be thankful that Farrell is capable of making corrections. I'm delighted for Farrell, was a big admirer of him during his Connacht years.
Don't you mean corrections forced on him by circumstances!? (I.e. injury to his favoured & woefully out of form Henshaw for instance!?)
well at least they did not need to be knocked down by a bus.
what is the story with Hugo K. Any idea when he will be back?
He hopes to be back around the end of the year, according to Bernard Jackman who says he heard it from Hugo.
Joe McCarthy said he hopes to get back during November (same source)
Over on the General Rugby discussion thread there's an interesting point being made by @Bart97 in there for sure that would relate to the Irish squad for RWC2027. If you were to pick out the players across the provinces that should be at their peak in 2027 from Irish rugby who would be the best 15-23 that would fit that bracket right now projecting forward 2 years from now? Then take that group, and think about if they were the collective selectors for the remaining spots, would they rather select the players that are past their peak or the players that are not yet at their peak, or break it down and make decisions on a case by case basis? Every position has a different age bracket for peak age, and some individuals will be outside of the norm so it's really up for debate as to making selections. Then the interesting part is compare that team/squad to what it is most likely going to be given the current approach of drip-feeding in players here and there very gradually while keeping the incumbent players in the jersey as long as possible. I'll give it a go later.
It's still pretty subjective though - how are you defining peak? The best player on the pitch last Saturday night is 3 months away from his 34th birthday.
Johnny Sexton was 33 winning World Player of the Year, Bundee was the same age when he was nominated in 2023. There are plenty of guys in Irish rugby who are 25 and don't look ready for the next level.
It's taking advantage of circumstance, yes, but he could have selected Gavin, Postlethwaite or another young prospect. Instead, he's rewarding form.
It sounds like you're just determined to find fault with him regardless of what he does.
Den Kelly has been tearing up trees for Munster at centre. At the moment I'd have him above
Osbourne in ability and pace. I've see Osbourne throw a few dud passes for green and blue.
Kelly is a big leader in the team and instantly improves defense. Seems to link up well with Crowley / Farrell too which is a bonus.
JGP is having more and more dud performances. Since the last 6Ns he is starting to look a bit lost, plus he doesn't really pair up well with Crowley.
I know Andy is a big fan of cohesion, so a possible combination of Casey, Crowley, Dan Kelly and Tom Farrell would probably have more playmakers that the current lot. I don't really see Ringrose or Henshaw as playmakers.
Peak ability, generally for a back that will be younger, for a front row will be older. Put it this way, if you were looking to use limited resources to sign a top player, you'd want to get them at the beginning of them getting into their prime and hold onto them for about 4 years to get their best years out of them before going back to the market to get the next top player beginning their prime years. Say roughly I'd estimate the following: (Playing Number) peak age, prime years, (1) 30, 28-32, (2) 29, 27-31, (3) 31, 29-33, (4) 28, 26-30, (5) 29, 27-31, (6) 28, 26-30, (7) 27, 25-29, (8) 27, 25-29, (9) 27, 25-29, (10) 28, 26-30, (11) 25, 23-27, (12) 28, 26-30, (13) 27, 25-29, (14) 25, 23-27, (15) 27, 25-29.
It might be a good idea to select a starting 15 for 2027 based off that age profile, and supplement it with another 8 older and another 8 younger, and 2 more for a squad of 33. Then compare that with the expected 33 that will slowly evolve now. Then consider, are there players now entering their prime that need to be getting more capps over the next 2 years to get them ready?
Munster fans love to bring up that we won a 6N with Crowley at 10 as justification for why Crowley should start (which is fine). But Crowley’s halfback partner for that 6N was JGP. So by their own logic shouldn’t that mean JGP and Crowley do pair up well? Not sure what the evidence is that they don’t pair up well is. That being said, JGP has been off form and I’d like to see Casey get a start or two against a tier 1 team.
An in form JGP should start but a JGP from last Saturday night shouldn't even be on the bench.
Himself and Lowe were easily the worst two players on the field on Saturday evening. He spent more time trying to milk penalties than playing the ball and then you can in his indecision and poor execution. Terrible.
It's a pity it's NZ up first and not Japan, ideally you'd want the players that played poorly the other night to get a game together at national level to iron out kinks.
I'd back Farrell to get a performance out of them but if they don't it could make for a long AIs
