why not against Australia go for 9 Casey 10 prendergast 12 Crowley
You will learn a lot about players, systems, partnerships in training but the only real test is in battle.
Ireland have failed to get past the quarter final of a World Cup and we need to change that. That’s is the most important and only objective Irish rugby needs to achieve. Nothing else matters. I don’t care if the whole Irish team World Cup panel is from one province , we need to make that semi final.
and to do that we need to go to the next World Cup with a panel with test minutes spread evenly across the squad. I know very little about rugby but I do know a lot about risk management. We cannot go to the next World Cup and repeat the same exact mistakes of previous world cups . We must end the days of the inner circle being a closed off shop, it must evolve with competition, rotation and transparency.
Good point. Farrell/IRFU will peddle a line about how result in the here and now are essential to the IRFU business model. On that basis, Andy Farrell should be picking on form ahead of the 6N. To me, that means Tom Farrell should be getting capped.
A career equal to Ireland's greatest player? Probably not. Ireland's greatest ever player actually played on 5 Lions Tours, played 10, 11, 12 and 15 for Ireland and gained 69 international caps in green, 12 for the Lions and played 9 times for the Barbarians when it was a truly international side. So 90 international jerseys in a time when Ireland played 4 games a year. Gibson's career began with Ireland in 1964 and he earned his 69th and final cap in the second and final test win against Australia in Sydney in 1979 at age 36. A versatile player, he represented his country in four different positions. Prior to moving to centre, Gibson played fly half to a high level. He was known for the perception and timing of his attacking play, the focus and anticipation of his defence and the dedication and commitment with which he applied himself across a 15-year international career in which he appeared in a then-world record 81 Tests, including five tours with the British & Irish Lions.
Gibson scored 112 Test points (9 tries, 16 penalties, 7 conversions and 6 drop goals) for Ireland. Gibson's record Ireland caps haul of 69 was overtaken by lock Malcolm O'Kelly against Scotland in February 2005. The mark had lasted for 26 years. His record of 56 appearances in the Five Nations(now Six Nations) was not equalled until countryman Ronan O'Gara reached the mark in Ireland's final match of the 2011 Six Nations.
"At times when Irish rugby wasn't successful Mike was always the shining light. He played international rugby for 15 years and that speaks volumes about him. He was a magnificent player and a true ambassador for the game." Brian O'Driscoll. Ireland's second-greatest ever player.
Just saying. Recency at work.😉
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Should make zero difference, pick the best players on form. That would be Tom Farrell. If he's still in this form in 2 years time at 34 what about it. It's a CC issue, let's be honest about it. The others are on one.
The alternative is sticking with Henshaw and Aki, one being the same age and the other 3 years older than Farrell. Both of whom are way off form.
I think the issue there is that place kicking is a much easier fix than issues like a player's baseline agility or their willingness to tackle. That's not to say Prendergast won't improve, he's still young, but I don't ever see him being a real attacking threat on the line or a lad who monsters an opposition centre. He's actually a lot closer to O'Gara in style than any other fly half we've had since and if he ends up anywhere close to him that's great but this season is very important for him you imagine.
Apparently he was struggling with an abductor issue last season which didn't help. Spent the Summer with a personalised training regime and it shows. He looks fit and lean.
Yeah, the penalty to go three scores up was the key moment, along with that 10 minute defensive set in the second half. Like you said it wasn't the most straightforward kick, especially when you factor in the pressure, but it is one you'd expect a top fly half to get and he nailed it. He looks far more assured off the tee this season.
Another question is have is which of two has developed more since then end of last season
Sure, either or both of them could go on to be superstars. Might even happen by turning world cup. I can't say I'd bet on it, but it's possible
Early days but his kicking %’s off the tee this season have improved on last. I actually think the penalty last night to go 17 ahead was the winning of the game. Before that I was always wary as Leinster are capable of putting 14+ points on you inside 15 mins, but that pushed it out to a 3 score game. It wasn’t the easiest kick either and he nailed it. His footwork as well was excellent last night, but it was his decision making and kicking from hand that were the highlight.
It is a safe bet to assume no player will have a career equal to Ireland's greatest ever player to be fair. The comparisons don't do anyone any good.
Crowley will continue to get lots of opportunities if he continues playing this well. He didn't play well last season. None of this is rocket science.
I think you're right and Farrell will do something along those lines.
I really don't get this line of thinking. What's to say Crowley can't go on and have a career to equal Sexton or O'Gara. Sexton was 26 before he nailed down his spot for Ireland and even then he wasn't the finished article. He ended up on the bench in the 2011 RWC because his goal kicking wasn't up to par.
Crowley has already led us to a 6 Nations title. He's also led a Munster team to a league win down in South Africa. He's not a complete player yet but either was Sexton at his age and it's not like he's miles off. He has no glaring weaknesses but it's true his goal kicking needs work. He's an excellent defender, kicks off both feet, is very agile as evidenced multiple times last night, is powerful and fast enough to threaten the line and is more than capable of creating space for those around him.
There is more evidence than not to suggest that Crowley could have a fantastic career in green should he stay injury free and should he actually be given the opportunity. It seems all the talk of Prendergast's high ceiling have blinded people to what's actually in front of them, a very talented fly half. It's becoming increasingly clear that Irish management made a significant error in judgement. It shouldn't be compounded because people can't acknowledge that mistake. Just because a certain subset of supporters backed the wrong horse it doesn't mean that the other should be written off.
what should happen is they both start 2 games each regardless of how they go
I have no problem with Pendergast starting New Zealand and South Africa and Crowley Australia and Japan. Same across the squad. Farrell must rotate. I would like to see him try things even our own version of the bomb squad against South Africa.
Given the form of the players generally, I think they're unlikely to beat NZ (no shame in losing to NZ BTW). So whoever starts at 10 is likely to lose the jersey for the second game.
I know they both want the opportunity to play and beat NZ, but I don't think that's actually the prize it appears to be. It could be a poisoned chalice and the 10 battle will rumble on. That's actually fine as it's good to have competition, but neither is a superstar sp we probably won't emerge with a Sexton or a ROG for the world cup.
Munster were a group of 23 all fully dialled in with Crowley & Beirne leading from the front with passion and precision. Leinster were disjointed and didn’t turn up at the collision front. Ireland will be more Munster than Leinster when it comes to Autumn despite the numbers and I suspect Beirne & Crowley will once again lead
The optimistic slant is that these are quality players who did very well in the summer under Farrell and are now going back to him, so they’ve a week and a half to undo whatever the hell was wrong last night.
Ha, touché sir.
I'm not saying it's not a concern. Just saying that a lot of the problem was whatever godawful abomination of a gameplan Leinster were supposed to be trying.
It would be a lovely story but giving a player a first cap at the age of 32 would generally be met with outrage on here.
Ahh now. 'Outrage on here'
There's always outrage on here. Hardly the barometer is it?
Well, if you exclude JvdF, Furlong, Kelleher, Lowe & Osborne then yes, all their Lions were playing in their first game back.
As I said Lowe & JGP were my pick of the poorest out there last night and it's a concern for me as an Irish fan.
Ireland are not going to play like Leinster did which is one potential positive. It was also the first game back for all of the Lions (though that didn't seem to bother Beirne).
I'm sure some more players will be brought into the squad for the Japan game anyway.
If Munster can do that to Leinster, what will the international teams be thinking when facing pretty much the same team.
Leinster went 70 odd minutes last night without scoring, without scrum penalties where are their entries to the opposition 22, will Ireland face a scrum as poor as Munster's was last night.
The normal standout players were anonymous last night or worse still stood out for being so poor. Lowe & JGP come top of my list for being so poor
SA used 47 players in the Rugby Championship. They absolutely are building depth. Could you ever see us doing that in a 6N? Not a chance.
The Irish Rugby squad is a closed shop. Harder to get out of than it is to get into. Munster made an absolute mockery of Farrell’s selections last night.
Again, it’s not an either/or scenario. There’s no rule that says Henshaw and Farrell couldn’t be called up.
Henshaw, or Aki or McCloskey, should be kept or dropped based on what they might offer now and in the future.
Farrell should be picked or not picked based on what Farrell might offer now and in the future. It would be a lovely story but giving a player a first cap at the age of 32 would generally be met with outrage on here.
All fair enough FFF but tom farrell does not have the mileage on the clock now that the other centres do...esp the years & years of hard lines Henshaw has ran.
He is never getting a call up...the summer tour proved that but at least go into the AI's looking at another option...assuming Osbourne goes to 15
SA are absolutely not refreshing their squad. They have an older one than us.
I think we could be in for a bit of a reality check against NZ, SA and quite possible Aus. The team has quite clearly been in decline performance wise for the last year and while we’ve still been winning most games, which has somewhat papered over the cracks, France brutally exposed us in the 6N and what Munster did to the bulk of the Ireland team last night is very worrying. There should have been a steady evolution of the team post RWC ‘23, but Farrell opted to stick with the same guys and try to eke out every last result from them. But we’ve seen over the last year that this team is over the hill and needs new blood. But with the latest squad announcement he’s once again failed to do this. I think we all know where this is heading. You look at France, England, NZ and SA and see them brining in new guys, refreshing their squad and building depth, but Farrell is simply refusing to do this. I desperately want us to get past the quarters in 2027 but I just can’t see it happening the way we’re doing things.
But if a player is roughly the same age and in better form?
Sure, I don't disagree with any of that. But I think the chances of Henshaw making the RWC are basically zero, and if we are going to play someone who won't be at the 2027 RWC we may as well play someone who is actually playing well.
I wouldn't pick either for what it's worth.
Well, I can firmly say I have never used the "bias" argument. But, like the point I made to FTD, systems, cohesion, familiarity, parterships, gameplan all are real things that come into coaches considerations too.
Which is often overlooked on here as "he picks the best players".
Look, we'll see how it goes. With the context of everything over the last 12 months, this Autumn Internationals feels like a bit set of games for Farrell, imo. Much moreso than previous AI's.
