Thanks to @Brief_Lives for this excellent table above. Although the stat I'd most like to see is Sam Prendergast's tackle 'success' rate versus Crowley's. (Or even his missed tackles/minute played v Crowley's, & then extrapolate these out to 80 minutes l, to get an apples v apples analysis say)
That won't make pretty reading for SP fan boys imho. As his tackling stats are truly horrendous!!
Also bear in mind SP is hidden in the Irish defence when he plays, putting undue extra work on VDF & Aki to compensate in defence for him, (which takes from the rest of their games), and in weakening the whole Irish defensive set in trying to find a place where SP can hide out in from opposition strike runners who invariably slice him apart when they eventually find his channel. Ireland don't have to do any such weak 10 defending compensation tactics when Crowley is on the park, that in itself, tells it's own story imho.
The squad had played together a lot and built up momentum to the stage where they utterly blew out Scotland in the first 30 mins of that match is why they started so slow against NZ is an insane take. It makes zero sense. You might have a point if you were arguing they tailed off at the end but we all know the game was lost in the opening 20.
They started slow because they mentally shat the bed. The selection in the group stages had nothing to do with it.
MOD: Do not use the term "fan boys" or anything similar on this forum
@Podge_irl writes:
...They started slow because they mentally shat the bed. The selection in the group stages had nothing to do with it."
You do realise that nerves are hugely accentuated by fatigue & being over played don't you!?.....
Teams that come out & go 0-13 down to a side they are probably better than is sure sign of side that has been over played & are a bit flat imho.
No one who has played 50 mins of rugby in a 20 day period is going into a match "fatigued".
The amount the players had played was no different to your average 6N.
To be fair, I think even the most staunch Prendergast defender will admit his tackling isn’t good enough and his completion percentage’s and tackle totals are likely to be a good bit behind Crowley. (I think it’s roughly in the 60% vs 80% range, so I don’t think it’ll tell us anything we don’t already know). For me tho, there are also occasions where Sam doesn’t get a hand on someone, and that won’t show up in the tackle stats. His chase back on kick-return imo, isn’t where it needs to be either.
Lots of stats like that one, available at the official site:
https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/stats/2025
It's poor defending like this that won't show up in missed tackle stats. -not criticising the blocked kick that led to it. I don't blame him for trying the kick.
I think he has no interest in attempting to make contact with the player running towards him.
I think he takes a change in direction as an excuse to avoid contact. This is an example.
That's not an example at all. He gets side stepped by a player then readjusts to track back and actually make a tackle. You can even see in that video that he was swerved around.
Lads at the very least you can try and make a cogent argument without the need to invent things or confirm your biases.
Really? Do you see a man who really wants to make a tackle?
If you do, then it's genuinely fascinating how we can see such different things
side-stepped?
lol
The video you posted disproves whatever argument you were making. He tracked across to make the tackle, planted his feet and was ran around. The biggest error he makes in that sequence, besides the kick, was not anticipating where the contact area would be. It's absolutely bad decision making all round.
But saying he's actively avoiding contact is ludicrous. And it certainly is not evident on the face of this video.
Swerved, side-stepped, ill adjusted. It's all the same. He failed to make a tackle and deserves to be criticised for it.
But I find it incredible that anyone can look at it and say he actively avoided contact.
I’m struggling to see what’s so bad there. He could have done better but it’s hardly damning and there are plenty of worse examples of Prendergast missing tackles.
But also, that’s the only video that “John McGrath” has ever posted. Clearly he’s very exercised by a pretty nondescript passage of play. I’m just not sure why the Prendergast debate has to be so vindictive and nasty.
Fair enough. I've no intention of getting into pages of trench warfare about it.
BTW you acknowledged one of the points I was making about putting himself out of a position to make any kind of tackle.
I think it's really interesting that we can see the same clip and come away with such different interpretations.
Sure even when he made a last ditch tap tackle against Australia some people claimed it was illegal because he was on the ground.
He's a poor tackler, especially for such a tall player. But i don't think videos of him making a tackle is evidence that he doesn't want contact.
Of course he's not in a position to make a tackle. It's because he over runs it. That's bad defence. What it isn't is some great machination in the mind of Prendergast to avoid contact.
Fwiw, I actually pulled the Scottish data together that was being requested (Townsend is indeed one of Farrell's peers). To try add some context, and not just straight totals for every game, due to very different fixture lists, I've filtered out the following games:
So new caps since the RWC, excluding the above games, have gotten the following:
Team
New Caps
Total Caps
Minutes
Games
% of Mins available
Ireland
7
29
1203
16
6%
Scotland
11
44
1554
15
9%
So Scotland have given more minutes in fewer games. Everything so far has just reinforced what my initial perception was.
It's a fair bit of work, but if there's any interest, I'll try pull the full data set together for everyone and exclude all those lower ranked teams.
you're gonna love all the new November data
You're accepting half of my point. I'll take that
You're point is SP intentionally avoids making a tackle, which unless you are a clairvoyant is ludicrous.
What is certain is he missed the tackle, we can all agree on that.
Yeah, i also said poor defending like that won't show up in missed tackle stats. I'm not doing pages and pages arguing about it.
We just have different opinions on the clip
There's differing opinions on things and there's alleging a player purposefully missed a tackle because he didn't want to take contact. You can't say same and expect to not generate a debate on that.
Sure I can. I'm not going to do the pages and pages of absolute guff that's come before this.
There's no need to be cross that someone thinks something different from you. You could, just accept it. Or argue about it on your own, I don't mind.
Feel free to have the last word and we'll end it there.
You can look at the Glasgow game from last year's CC and see him do the same thing 3-4 times. He's well experienced enough to know how to position himself in defence yet he repeatedly runs out past the ball carrier making no attempt to put his body in the way.
Sorry, but no. You posted about being able to read a players mind and are now running away from what you've started.
It's not being "cross" or whatever you want to think. You're being asked to show how you know he's purposefully avoiding contact.
You can also look at the rubbish you posted last week about Prendergast running away from Willie Le Roux when he tried to make a try saving tackle. You were called out on it and had no response.
There's accepting that Prendergast needs to improve his tackling/defence and there's whatever the jaysus is happening in multiple threads now. The level of fantasy posting about Prendergast's defensive frailties really needs to stop. He's a bad tackler. You don't need to invent scenarios to further your agenda.
I think everyone knows he’s a poor tackler and it’s something that he needs to hugely improve. Luckily he has time. He’s got to get on with it himself. It won’t change overnight so anyone who was expecting a sudden change in the last 3 months is deluded or using it as a stick to beat him with. It’s a crucial part of the game and a reason why someone like ROG will never be seen as an elite fly half by people outside of this country and why he never got selected as a starting 10 for the Lions. Luckily he had no competition for Ireland in that time. Prendergast doesn’t have that luxury.
While O'Gara might have been a poor tackler he always made an attempt to make the hit and stood his ground. I can remember Heaslip running over the top of him in an interpro for that very reason. He wasn't strong or physical but he was brave.
The ‘ROG wasn’t a great defender but he was brave’ is one of the great myths of Irish rugby. A player picking out a weak defender and going straight at him doesn’t make that defender brave.
ROG had many talents on the pitch but physical bravery wasn’t one. Going in for a poach when you’re going to get cleared out of it is a better example of bravery than being a speed bump.
