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Northern Ireland 2125?

downcow

I am interested in peoples thoughts about the future of Northern Ireland. As things stand OWC ranks fifth in the world of areas under the same continuous authority. I think we just have England, Wales, Japan and maybe a wee principality ahead of us.

It seems some Republicans think this is about to end, but we have heard that so many times before.

Current trends would not suggest that there will be a ‘ successful’ united Ireland poll in the foreseeable future, but let’s put ourselves in the shoes of an optimistic fantasising Republican and let’s say there is a successful poll, what happens then?

Northern Ireland currently exists as a country of sorts, in the same way as Scotland, Wales, and England, within the United Kingdom. So if we had a united Ireland, surely it is entirely reasonable to expect Northern Ireland to remain as an country of sorts within a united Ireland. I think there are many unionists and nationalists that will struggle terribly with this position, but I am very comfortable with it. My love is for Northern Ireland and as long as it remains, I am ok.

Currently, if you’re born in Northern Ireland, you’re born British, but you can apply for Irish nationality. I guess a change would be that you will be born Irish but can apply for British nationality. That change is not worth losing sleep over.

Is there anyone out there who believes that there will ever be a fully united island, no devolution, no Northern Ireland football team, no ni flag, no soda bread, etc, etc?

I am really interested in your honest reflections

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FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832142#Comment_123832142

Who promised to defend the OO and what has it to do with a southern border Presbyterian trying to distance herself from them?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832147#Comment_123832147

I am not so sure about your hive mind reference. His attacks on HH certainly carry more subtlety than the direct sectarian abuse she has received on social media, but they are of the same mind.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123831880#Comment_123831880

That is only one way of looking at it.

The other way of looking at it is that public discourse down here has got so extremist that any kind of links to any kind of unionist organisation is met with hostility. A rap group named after an IRA torture method gets huge popular acclaim, Up the Ra becomes a song celebrating Irish identity, any attempt to look at both sides of the conflict such as commemorating the RIC gets attacked etc. Just look at the fuss being made over who can speak Irish that 80% of the population can't understand.

Any candidate operating in such a skewed political atmosphere would obviously distance themselves from the OO, no matter what they thought of it.

Day by day, week by week, political controversy after political controversy, we are getting further and further away from the ideals of the GFA which looked for unity of the people.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832222#Comment_123832222

Typical blanch carry on.
Criticise or question FG, you put a label of some description on it - 'homophobic' 'sectarian' 'misognistic' then insist that is what the issue is.

Not responding to that rubbish. Man up and deal with the issue raised not one you invent.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832260#Comment_123832260

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123828765#Comment_123828765

"why is the granddaughter of an Ulster Covenant signatory"

What about this description Francie? Why did you use it?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832279#Comment_123832279

Because she has a Unionist background she has always been proud of and didn't disown.
She has disowned her attendance at Orange events.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832222#Comment_123832222

The, 'hive mind' reference was in relation to Downcow taking Francie's point and using it to make a claim about, 'Republicans on here'.

Given you've claimed you support Unification, 'Republicans on here' would include you. I assume you'd prefer if Downcow didn't take Francie's opinions as yours?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832336#Comment_123832336

Well yes, that is one interpretation of "hive mind".

Mine is that I see Francie's interventions as being a slightly modified and moderated version of the rabid republican hive mind dressed in nice clothes.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832365#Comment_123832365

In this exchange alone, we have three self-professed Republicans with three very differing perspectives and desired outcomes....pretty hard to argue about a hive mind in that context really.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832405#Comment_123832405

blanch and his labels again.

Ardillaun

If you’re from Ulster you’ll usually have associations with groups or people that can be viewed dimly by somebody. I know I do. Unless crimes are alleged I’d just own it and say yes that was then, a very different time. In the ‘good old days’ it was hard for Protestants to avoid groups like the OO. Ditto for our crowd. We need to develop a more tolerant view of our shared tribal past if we are to ever put it to bed.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832651#Comment_123832651

I couldn't disagree too much. Sure I historically had disreputable types on both sides in my own extended family. I find it curious that Heather Humphreys tried to lessen her connections to the OO, but wouldn't hold it against her particularly. Her FG connections are more of a blocker for my vote than her Protestantism or her Orange connections.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832147#Comment_123832147

I wonder what reform Francie would have in mind for the OO? Its rules are not that much more strict than the Catholic church? In fact it does not have the power, control or influence in N.I. that the Catholic church has here, so I fail to see the problem? I think deep down he would like to see it gone altogether; even though the flag is green white and orange, he wants the orange gone?

As Downcow said lots of republicans have been saying how the orange order would be safe and tolerated and welcome in a united Ireland – but maybe the mask has slipped with the many hundreds of very negative remarks to HH about the OO on facebook etc, even though she was never in it and is not now and says she is a proud republican and wants a U.I.?

FrancieBrady

The DUP getting a belt of good old fashioned Paisley fire and brimstone wasn't on my bingo card this weekend.

Enoch Burke on X: "BREAKING: CHAOS AT DUP CONFERENCE AS BURKES EXPOSE LGBT PROMOTER PAUL GIVAN Tonight DUP Minister of Education Paul Givan was confronted for his promotion of LGBTQ+ ideology in schools. The DUP are holding their annual conference this weekend in the La Mon Hotel outside Belfast. https://t.co/7JRa5K86V3" / X

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123818052#Comment_123818052

Don't know where this is coming from. There is no designated gaeltacht in Clondalkin (or anywhere in County Dublin).

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832234#Comment_123832234

excellent post

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123836198#Comment_123836198

It's an Irish Language Network (Líonra Gaeilge) under the Gaeltacht Act 2012. To be a Líonra Gaeilge certain criteria has to be met.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123826868#Comment_123826868

this little clip just effectively sums up the attitude of you and SF on bonfires and indeed all unionist culture.
listen to a unionist happy to condemn behaviour that is wrong from his own community, challenge sf for not doing likewise.
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNdpX1ScH/

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123836426#Comment_123836426

This is pure 'woe is me' again.

I have NO issue with your culture and it's expression as long as it respectful and non toxic and as long as you treat people as equals.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123836444#Comment_123836444

you are just confirming what he was saying.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123836992#Comment_123836992

Has a Unionist rep, including Mr Burrows EVER brought a motion forward to regulate toxic and sectarian bonfires including those that happen in their own communities?

Of course they haven't, they don't have that vision.

As long as somebody somewhere is singing Up The RA they can point over there and carry on with their behaviour.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123837041#Comment_123837041

The easiest way to catch them out is to stop singing "Up the Ra" and naming rap groups after torture methods.

Simple as.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123837240#Comment_123837240

Girls in a shower room or young musicians aren't POLITICIANS blanch.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123837249#Comment_123837249

and neither are kids around a bonfire.
if you can’t see how sectarian sf is by constantly focusing on the others issues and ignoring kneecap etc, then you are in a sad blinkered place

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123838141#Comment_123838141

Back to ‘kids’ now?

So you can’ show a single Unionist motion to control toxic and sectarian acts.
Says it all.

Not that it is related Kneecap faced the law for anything they might have done.

Unionist politicians have a coniption if the law is used to control their sectarian parades and bonfires.

We saw what happened to parades when they ran out of road and we’ll see the same with bonfires.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123837249#Comment_123837249

The members of the Northern Irish hip-hop group Kneecap were all born between 1997 and 1991, so I would not call men aged between 28 and 34 "young". Also the Irish national womens soccer team what sang up the RA were all women, not girls.

If you want an example of kids who are / were not politicians, look at the innocent kids who the 'RA (the military wing of the party you support) tried to murder the same day as the Enniskillen boming, with a bomb 4 times bigger than Enniskillen.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/ira-tried-to-massacre-boys-and-girls-brigade-1118713

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/if-the-iras-plans-had-worked-out-differently-this-border-townland-would-have-been-devastated/a954988124.html

So when most of us who were around in the eighties hear of "young girls" as you call them or "young musicians" chanting Up the 'RA, we realise their ignorance of what really happened should be no defence of their offensive behaviour.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123839683#Comment_123839683

I asked had any Unionist politician proposed measures to control and regulate sectarian and toxic displays at bonfires in their own or other communities.

If you know of any please post.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123837249#Comment_123837249

Serious politicians like Micheal Martin call out toxic nationalism.

Sinn Fein politicians don't.

"Up the Ra" is a disgraceful sectarian chant. No ifs or buts about it, it causes huge offence to the victims of the PIRA. You will defend it like you will defend rap groups naming themselves after torture methods.

Politicians are not the only ones who can influence society for good or bad. Cultural icons like musicians and sportswomen can also influence. They are not kids.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123839726#Comment_123839726

So no answer to the question:

had any Unionist politician proposed measures to control and regulate sectarian and toxic displays at bonfires in their own or other communities.

That is obviously because no Unionist politician has.
But if a party works on the ground to end toxic and sectarian public displays and calls it out and tries to introduce regulation and control, it is pilloried by none other than yourself and others.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/sinn-fein-condemns-dissident-republican-bonfires-as-anti-community-and-calls-for-regulation/a1856550509.html

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123839747#Comment_123839747

So in response to my question, you whatabout Unionist politicians?

I have explained this to you before and I will explain it again, no unionist politicians is asking for my vote, what they say is a matter for their electorate. However, Sinn Fein are asking for my vote and claim to be an all-Ireland party, so the question is relevant to them.

So tell me, why aren't Sinn Fein politicians speaking out against sectarian chants of "Ireland for the Irish", "Up the Ra" and the misuse of torture symbols by rap groups?

Sinn Fein will condemn dissident bonfires, but not their own ones in Derry.