He played 6 on his international debut in November IIRC.
Imagine if we could have such an intense rivalry between two excellent young candidates in every position. It’s a good thing. We’ve bigger problems elsewhere.
I know he played back row in the past but he's full time in the second row now.
You cannot consider a lad playing full time in one position for a position he rarely played and doesn't anymore.
This is clearly rubbish. He has 5 starts at lock and 4 at blindside this season.
You cannot consider that as "full time" at lock and "rarely played and doesn't anymore" at back row.
Fully agree. I'd put him in the same bucket as Baird and Ahern. For international duty, far more likely to be a 6 option than lock against top sides.
How are Ahern and Baird remotely in the same bucket when it comes to Ireland? Ahern has never played for Ireland. He isn't in any bucket.
They are the same type of player, clearly.
Both play both second row and backrow provincially, much like Izuchukwu, but look on the light side for playing second row internationally.
Yeah, don't know how it wasn't clear, but this is what I meant. Also, I think Izuchukwu and Ahern to a lesser extent will start to put pressure on Baird if they can stay fit. Baird hasn't quite kicked on the way you'd hope.
One has nearly 30 caps and started a grand slam winning game, the other can't buy his way into an extended Ireland squad. We don't know how Ahern would be used for Ireland because he's not good enough to get into the conversation.
Zero caps speaks for itself.
Ahern is clearly in the conversation for 6 at national level, none of the guys who have been given shots have taken them and Conan seems like a perfect no.20 on the bench.
Not sure why you are so dismissive of him.
🙄 And Cian Tracey can speak for me:
First, there was the shoulder problem that ruled him out of the (uncapped) All Blacks XV game in November 2022. Then there was the head injury, suffered this time last year, that cost Ahern his place as a “training panellist” in Ireland’s Six Nations squad, before an ankle issue in early June not only scuppered his hopes of being included for the summer tour to South Africa, but the ensuing four months out also hindered his bid to make his senior international debut last November.
That’s obviously part of the context. But if you really think he “can’t buy his way into an Ireland extended squad” I’m willing to to bet €50 - to the charity of your choice - that, injury excepting, he’ll get his first Ireland cap this Summer.
No one was comparing their achievements so you can untwist your knickers. It was a stylistic commentary of the kind used to compare established internationals and non-internationals all the time.
Untwist them yourself, you don't have to reply either. I wasn't quoting you in the first place but here you are.
Squidge diving head first into the Prendergast readiness debate.
He does a good job of highlighting how he has such a different style to the more running based OHs and how his impact is different.
It's a decent video, but I feel he doesn't address the most important aspect of Prendergast's game, which is the quality of his passing. Coupled with his decision making, he is elite in that regard. Like he shows him making a pass to the wing in that video that he'd be absolutely creaming over if it was Russell doing it.
Prendergast has been excellent in Leinster's recent Champions Cup games. The pack are giving him excellent ball to work with, but he's also going beyond what you'd expect a 22 year old to be able to.
Whether it's 20 metre long skip passes, or delayed pop passes that commit defenders to him, he's creating so many like breaks. His tactical kicking has been excellent as well.
Excellent video - entertaining and informative. I learned a lot there.
Incidentally, I'm curious if your "Zero caps speaks for itself" logic extends to, say, TOB?
@AbusesToilets I think you need to watch it again. He includes several of SP's most alluring passes and talks about how they're special.
He goes into a lot of detail on Prendergast's passing, both the quality and timing.
I felt he was focusing more on Prendergast's decision making and passing at the line, rather than his more expensive abilities. Minor quibble certainly. I'd like to see him do similar analysis on the other prominent 10s, Crowley, the Smiths, Russel and such.
Felt he was a bit off base with regards Prendergast's tackling. His issue for me is an attitude one, rather than just being **** at tackling, in that he lacks the aggression or instinct to get stuck in. Whether it's possible to address that remains to be seen.
He literally says Prendergast's problem is technique and mentality.
The video is only 22 minutes long. Did you watch it through?
I did yea. He spent the video slagging his **** technique. I think he's fine when he actually commits to it, albeit it still being a soak tackle.
Connacht are doing very well bringing through talent.
So saying three out of four provinces not bringing through talent is incorrect.
he did say that SPs tackling issue was at least partly mental, but it was refreshing to see it contextualised. He doesn’t hit rucks either! The main take away is that he has a very nice range of skills, is highly dangerous as a catcher and kicker in the backfield and, importantly, he sows uncertainty among defenders because he takes the ball late and close to the line and makes decisions very fast if the picture changes. It was all well evidenced.
The list of tens who are terrible tacklers was pretty long, too.
He makes for an interesting contrast to Frawley. I remember one of the Molecasts from awhile back, possibly the Leinster vs La Rochelle 1/4 final last year, where they highlighted how many times Frawley ended up stuck in a ruck when he was on at 10. I think he has a similar range of skills to Prendergast, and is obviously far superior in his running and tackling, but just does not have the mental side to his game to be a 10.
At the end of the day, I care about a 10's tackling about as much as I would a QB's punting. It's a thing, and can be a detriment, but i'm far more concerned about whether they can run an effective attack and control a game. Prendergast can do all that, and he's not even as bad as guys like ROG or Humphreys were back in the day. He at least has the benefit of being a big lad, who's only going to get stronger.
I don’t think the mention on the video of SP’s tackling was meant to be taken totally seriously. Yes, he can improve but he doesn't need to be anywhere near the best on the team. You don’t want an out-half getting injured on a constant basis.
I'm sure you think this is some great gotcha but in reality TOB has a tiny body of work behind him and at no point has realistically been in the running for Ireland. Beyond that if he can finish the season well and injury free for Leinster that will be great.
versus:
You’ve made my point for me. Personally, I think both of them could have something to offer Ireland going forward, and offer something unique versus their competition; TOB’s outright pace, and Ahern’s pace and height+lineout ability, in a team that can lack pace out wide, and has had lineout issues.
