Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
That graphic is from World Rugby themselves. It was implemented, it just wasn't followed.
That's almost worse. Literally zero excuse.
No almost about it.
Shay McCarthy doesn’t seem that quick, he got outpaced by JGP over 25 metres in a straight footrace and hasn’t had a single moment when he has made big metres due to speed. I’m unsure if Kilgallen can stay fit. There is a serious drop off in the level of athletes at Munster compared to the Chiefs.
That's true, on more than one occasion I felt that if our lineout went to our players hand instead of the bulls hand we'd have scored
Watched the game in full on RTE player earlier this morning and I'd say it was definitely the defining factor in our game. We played notably better when we were down to 14 I felt as well so the idea that we might have won if we were up to 15 in that time is questionable
Earlier in the season we went down to 14 v Leinster for four minutes, Rowntree had to go down to the 4th officials because Leinster officials decided to stick their nose in and it caused a delay in Munster getting back up to 15. Post game the head of URC referees Trappe Henning apologised to Munster and said in future if such an occurrence was to happen again the ref would stop the game to sort it out, hey presto we go 15 minutes last night before it's resolved. It's farcical.
Then the ref allows a tap and go off the knee and Bulls score from it, he's informed by Crowley and he not the TMO decide to check the validity of the try.
Anyone who claims this ref is a good ref doesn't watch him often enough.
On Munster, we were piss poor at times and our lineout was shocking we were lucky to get the 13 points but the Bulls should never have been allowed that try.
Someone asked above about an uncontested lineout being call crooked throw, if you throw over the 15m line then it has to be straight, we lost one like that last night so maybe that's what they were asking about.
We were down a forward in a forward dominated game, we were down a man while they had a YC cancelling out what should have been a benefit to us being up a man and moreso, our 14 had to put in a bigger shift for 15 mins so probably caused so tiredness towards the end.
Add in 7 points to Bulls from a tap & go that was tapped off the knee, well yes, we might well have won and I say all that knowing our lineout was piss poor.
Semantics, but the idea that we would have won might be up for debate. The idea that we might have won, being down a player for 15 minutes in a 3 point game, absolutely isn’t.
what was archers injury?
There's no mention of John Ryan being injured on the last squad update. Presumably he starts next weekend.
Is Bartlet still with Munster or is that short term deal over?
Ryan is fit. He was one of the spare players yesterday.
That's somewhat positive news.
It's kinda crazy that it's happened twice in one season.
The only thing remotely close to it for referee incompetence from a Munster perspective that I can remember is back in the 2018/19 season, where there were 3 yellow cards given to our opposition across 2 consecutive games that were all upgraded to red (one of which came from a incident straight from kick-off).
This somehow feels even worse tho - it's not like a rugby incident that's open to interpretation; it should be a black-and-white process that can be followed.
I used to be a big fan of Piardi, but he's had 2 really poor performances recently. I'd reserve more ire for the TMO tho. It's something that should fairly easily fall under his remit and be relatively easy avoid.
Fwiw, Crowley's line kicking, I think he too often tries to get every last inch out of it (I think part of which is that it's cos we don't have the absolute power needed to bosh from inside the 22).
But I did think he showed some good variety yesterday, and also off both feet. Grubbers, chips over the top and kicks down the line.
In whatever ERC game he reffed last weekend, he didn't give a penalty try because the attacking player was too far out, I think he was close to the 5m line. It was far closer to a PT than the one he awarded against us the weekend before
Suggests to me that he was criticised in his post-match review for awarding that PT against Munster.
I wonder will he be criticised for Saturday's performance? While it was him that made the initial decision, nobody else questioned it for 13 minutes.
Even the RTE commentators initially explained it as if it was the correct decision
He probably didn't make the initial decision, that's usually on the 4th official, who is usually a volunteer ref appointed by the home team (in this case Munster) the issue is after the incident in Croke Park the URC said in future where a discussion arises about the validity of the sub or going down to 14, the ref would stop the game to get involved and sort it out. I can assure you from what I saw on the sideline on the East terrace then it was a lot earlier than the 13th minute regardless of what the commentary team saw or thought they saw
If the rule wasn't there, it wouldn't be cheating… too philosophical.
But seriously, all this rigmarole for what? A HIA isn't an injury somehow? You can fake an injury but not a HIA? Having a 3d chart to try figure out how many players should be on the pitch based on a series of occurences… It's like rugby is doing its utmost to turn off anyone new to the game, confuse fans, give refs more **** and all for what? Because one time Wasps pretended a player was hurt?
Pat lam tried lying to officials v Tigers a few years ago. Been a few instances.
harelequins
They don't want teams "hiding" potential head injuries because they are worried about going down a man because of it. Hence why you can also replace them with a previously subbed player etc.
It is certainly not perfect (if anything, a HIA is easier to "fake" than a real injury for example) but the intentions are with merit. Teams would 100% fake prop injuries to go uncontested - the rule they had to go down a man was brought in for a reason.
Bearing in mind that we were up a man for 8 minutes before the debacle due to a bulls yellow card and we scored nothing, in fact bulls scored 3, in that time. You'd be hard pressed to say we could have fixed our lineout and passing in those minutes
I'd like to believe that there were munster officials causing a fuss about this as soon as their player was sent off, Tadgh Beirne presumably made the call of which player had to go off but didn't question why it seems?
The refereeing team fucked up, no doubt, but they are far from the only ones who didn't know the rules on Saturday
A HIA is also determined by a doctor while any other injury is simply the players saying he's hurt
I think by now players would know to to " fail" a HIA if they wanted to
There aren't many fans who'd blame a player/captain for not fully understanding what was happening in the middle of a game, I'd also guess there aren't many players/captains who'd actually understand what was happening in similar instances.
I don't know why you want to pen any of this on Munster players or management the blame fully lies with the officials
Niallo was certainly in the ear of the sideline officials but he has other work to get on with too once the ref restarts the game hence why the URC said after the Croke Park incident that the ref must stop the game to sort it out. It then gives everyone time to focus on the issue.
I'd like to think a doctor could tell the difference between a head injury and somebody faking it, but if not then it's a minimum of a week return to play protocols and if they get caught I'd imagine World Rugby would come down very hard on both the player and club involved.
My expectation would be that the captain would know the rules, yes. Maybe I should further lower my expectations
The refereeing team are, however, the only party tasked with implementing the rules laws. They are solely responsible for this, it shouldn't be up to anybody else to point out errors they've made.
But why should teams who aren't doing anything wrong be made to lose a player just because a prop got injured ?
The players know the laws but at that moment in time they're busy playing the game, the refs and their officials are charged with running the game & the ref is the sole arbitrator.
Why are you expecting more from Beirne than the ref and his officials who had only one job to do on Saturday
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