it was handled very badly alright. They should have started with Crowley and over the championship if prendergast had surpassed Crowley than fair enough. They should have let it happen naturally, instead they tried to force it and they made a complete balls of it. They even had ex players and the media saying prendergast has overtaken Crowley , trying to sell it. Do not be surprised if prendergast goes to the lions, farrell has the arrogance to double down on his error.
What a load of shite
Agree they should have started with Crowley and let Sam impress with his minutes off the bench. There would have been no controversy if he won his way into the team from the bench. Dropping a player who was part of a six nations winning team the previous season and bringing in a young man with very questionable defensive ability was never going to sit well with a lot of people.
Ah, I don't think the SP/Crowley situation played any part at all really, have a look back at those games, the 10 didn't play much part in what was going wrong. The same problems that Ireland had in the first four games with SP were also evident in the game with Crowley.
I also don't think that the Irish team are that affected by the squad choices, they're professions through and through, and it was relatively easy to justify picking SP over Crowley, as Crowley was in bad to average form coming into the tournament. No player is going to be cut up over a player being dropped for form.
Andy Farrell has many traits, arrogance is not one of them, quite the opposite which is why he can get teams to rally around him
I hate this line that comes up about Crowley.
"part of a 6 nations winning team"
So were a lot of other players. That doesn't mean they cannot be rotated out. It is not like he dragged Ireland kicking and screaming to the title.
A 6 nations team that won the same amount of matches as this year. also Prendergast seemed to take the jersey in autumn so the crying in those couple of posts about it happening in the 6N is at best nonsense.
A line usually trotted out by the same people who normally complain about conservatism and not giving chances to any new players.
Farrell and Ireland are in a no-win situation with a small minority of people. It is what is and they're not for turning.
Given my post started this discussion, can I just point out that the people jumping straight to "Whhhhaaaa if they'd only picked my favourite player!!!", there is no possible way you could miss the point by a greater margin.
the form thing isnt really true though. he was fantastic away to northampton right before the 6Ns and away to ulster before christmas, a relatively poor game away to castres in europe is colouring people's perception a bit (although the team in general was well below standard that day). even going back to the AIs, he didnt do anything too special against NZ but again the team in general was well below par for the majority of the match, but he was played very well against Argentina and when he come on against Aus.
so, taking the below standard goalkicking out of the equation, the 'bad to average' form isnt exactly true either
Who else was rotated out?
Crowley did a very good job. Do you disagree with that?
And just in case you think I'm from Munster, I'm not. I'm a Connacht fan and I go support other provinces in tournaments where it doesn't hurt Connacht. I have no bias towards Munster or Leinster.
I'm always praising Leinster for all the great work thru do in their academy and I often say that players on the fringe of the Ireland team, like Max Deegan, should be part of the 23.
And I simply said that putting Prendergast on the bench to start his career would have made the transition a lot more acceptable for most people, who are not Leinster fans.
Who was the last out-half to walk straight in as starter for Ireland?
You simply cannot take a goal kickers stats from the tee out when assessing their performance. I dont believe you'd be trying to exclude his goalkicking if he was going 100% every week.
How would you describe Crowley's form from the start of the season up until the start of the 6 nations including goal kicking?
SP didnt walk straight in - he was in extended squads and toured with Ireland and didnt get a minute of gametime. He then benched and then took the jersey.
It was a truncated timeline but he went through the usual steps, probably expedited by Crowley not being in great form for either his province or country.
Prendergast did start his test career on the bench, even that was after touring SA and getting no game time.
He went through the exact same process as everyone else. This toxic bollicks about media hype, preferential treatment and all that is just lads being salty.
Worth remembering that Jack Crowley got a much faster elevation to the national team than Prendergast. Funny how that gets forgotten so much.
He absolutely was not fantastic against Ulster before Christmas. He was a complete mixed bag, as he had been all season to that point.
Even against Argentina, he was very good and then blotted his copybook with a very rough 10 min before halftime. I don't think Prendergast would have gotten the chances he did if Crowley had played as well as he did last season.
I don't know why you are talking me about the media stuff and preferential treatment stuff.
As I said he should have started the six nations on the bench and after a game or two been brought in as starter and none of the stuff you mention would have happened.
That's common sense.
Whose goalkicking stats are you referring to?
Crowley his last game and Prendergast now.. if they improve just 5% along with the additional 10-20 caps before WC.. pretty bloody great place to be for Ireland.
Mof Edit
Warning issued.
He started straight away in the Six Nations. None of the other stuff matters.
Why are you telling me about all the stuff that went on? As I said, if he started on the bench in the six nations and then got in after a couple of games there wouldn't have been any of that stuff going on.
It would have been common sense.
Now we are in a quandary, he had a 70% goal kicking success rate and horrendous defense.
Do we now go look for another out-half?
Neither him nor Crowley have covered themselves in glory this year.
gatland was pretty good at that too. but gatland was considered a very arrogant manager.
How good was Prendergast this evening? Exceptional performance really. Over to the Irish coaches to get those sorts of performances from him in green.
Hard to say, but that Leinster team beats Ireland. Jodie & RG / Slimani game changers, Jordie is at a different level. Tadgh B, Mac & Bundee all starting in any team in the world but this Leinster team for the all jip the coaches got for strategic changes on defence , are at a different level
The last molecast touched on that, the difference in performance from the players is stark. They look so different from the anemic effort seen in the 6Ns, non Leinster lads as well.
The difference is, he won't get an armchair ride at international level against tier 1 teams.
But it's the coaches fault if he underperforms 🙄
This is based on absolutely nothing whatsoever. It would only be true if we kept losing, otherwise changing your starting outhalf mid tournament would have gone down like a lead balloon. It is also just a silly premise anyway, he started the 6N cause the coaches thought he was the best player to start. Plenty of players before him have started their first 6N match and plenty more after him will also.
The totality of both of their performances have been "ok" and both have the ability to be better and have both shown performances of that nature, if not consistently. It's really not that much of a quandary or a problem. It's a generally positive situation.
For me, the SP/Crowley debate is fairly overblown, to be honest.
Two good players competing on merit in a position that we've historically only one one clear starter in is good news to me
The somewhat more interesting thing for me is the improvement in form outside of the Irish set up. Both are performing better than they did in the 6N, albeit we didn't see as much of Crowley as SP. You can legit say that SP is more protected at Leinster, but his defense has also clearly improved in the last few games. Not fully there yet still, but definitely better. Crowley has also improved, which has had a marked improvement in the entire team.
I think everyone should be happy that we've got two young tens who are clearly improving match by match.
As I said, people complain when we don’t pick new players and they complain when we do. You are arguing that we should pick the players that will create the least discussion among fans. That’s a new one, I have to say.
Yes, they have.
The idea that coaches should pick players to placate a small section of " fans" is one of the more moronic things I've heard, even for this forum.
it’s a game of tiny margins, add Jordie Barrett to any team and the outcome can change. World Cup 23 or Championship 25
When playing for Ireland he won't be playing behind an absolutely dominant pack. Last night peoves nothing IMO.
