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The one thing that Trump said was "it's going to be very hard to do business like this" says it all really. He is about the money not about helping Ukraine.
While Trump is playing cards Velenskyy needs to be playing chess with what are his options now.
Henry Kissinger - former US Secretary of State and one time security adviser to POTUS once said ''To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, to be a friend is fatal''
NATO may very well be resting on pillars of sand now and the tide is coming in fast - Perhaps someone should remind our current Taoiseach that being neutral is not all that bad after all !
Zelensky got a well aimed kick between the legs today from Trump in the White House followed by an uppercut from Vance for backing 'Kamel' Harris - he should have kept his nose out of it. Some of our loud mouths politicians should learn a lesson or two before it's too late and put our country first (for a change) instead of trying too hard to be relevant and be best boy in the class, it's called playing the long game.
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Facts
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The man heading over to US to meet Trump on St Patricks Day.
Something stinks, the fact Russia have been silent on this minerals deal tell me that in secret that have promised Trump they will honour it, if he stays out of their way.
Russia should be up in arms over this so called deal on '' their land'' according to their beliefs, but they're silent.
Mod: monsieur and dockysher are on a holiday from the forum so please don't quote their posts.
I think it's obvious now that there's division among the western nations on how to deal with Russia and Ukraine. The US have now set out their stall clearly: They want an end to this war expediently, They want to normalise relations with Russia, They want Europe to pay for future costs while they reap the economic benefits.
What we witnessed today was pure frustration from diametrically points of view clashing. The Americans don't want: negotiating from a position of strength, reassurance troops on the ground, further free military support.
The Americans are framing the Ukrainians, with the support of the EU establishment, as the impediment to ending the war.
We're at a dangerous time were the US decides to wash their hands of it. And despite the wishful thinking of many on here it's doubtful that the EU could replace America by the Ukrainians and Europeans own admissions
It seems like they stakes were just raised tonight after the debacle between the Trump administration and Zelensky.
Cutting though the emotion and listening to Trump and Vance's argument, they were suggesting that Ukraine is in a dire position, that it should trade land for peace. Zelensky was obviously of a different mindset. Both sides are clearly at completely opposite positions.
I noticed all the European leaders have backed Ukraine tonight after today's debacle. The big question, is will they be able to back this up with something tangible?
I don't see any imminent prospects for a temporary ceasefire, or some sort of peace deal where both sides compromise. Will the European nations be willing to back Ukraine to achieve victory?
Trump and Vance are deluded if they think Zelensky was the one disrespecting them today, only people who will think that is their cult following, but when they wake up tomorrow and see the worlds media reaction to their disrespect and bullying of Zelensky they'll get a big wake up call of the reality of what went down.
Vance is like a bad cartoon impression of being the "bad cop".
If he starts pacing up and down and making pathetic grunts while trying to damage furniture, no one would be surprised.
What choice would what was left of Ukraine have if it is overrun?
I assume its military would be pointed in the direction of Russia's "enemies".
I doubt most of Russia's(Putin's) conscripts are willing fighters.Ukraine would just join the ranks of the unwilling enlisted on pain of what we can guess if they refused orders.
Russia is a full blown dictatorship as I have heard it rumoured.
Ukraine's military vould be its (well Russia's) greatest asset.
The whole suit question to Zelensky was a total set up, no one seems to ask Musk why he never wears a suit at White House, he wanders around in his sweat pants and baseball cap
I would have liked Zelensky to ask Mr. Trump had his country ever faced a major invasion. Answer No.
And then say if invaded would the US be prepared to give up one third of its territory. Perhaps all the East Coast..
Winston Churchill in the White House
Not wearing a suit because he is at war
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All the while, Trump has done nothing to even attempt to dispel the idea that he is in cahoots with Putin.
Not a single word said by him to criticise Putin.
A very dark day for history.
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You have to admire Zelenskyy's stamina in dealing with the last three years and this last 24 hours especially. Going on Fox News takes balls when you know it's an ambush.
As things stand now, between Russia and Ukraine, if Europe intervened, who's talking about a multi-year war? I dont think so…months or maybe even weeks if Russia was hit hard enough. A massive attack on the Russian lines could trigger a complete collapse of the Russian military.
No one can talk to Trump. It's his way or the high way. Evil bastard
They are so far up their own backsides they won't notice
There's a palpable sense of disconnect between Europe and the USA tonight.
Obviously orban is an exception.
no need for blanket counter tarrifs
Specifically target companies, people, products and services related to Trump (Tesla, X) and key swing states
I said it before stab em with sharp pointy stick in kidney, Canadians doing that now,
US gdp went from +2.3% estimate last week to -1.5% according latest FED publications I linked to in parallel Trump thread
Isn’t this really about Zelensky not thanking Trump for something he didn’t do (I’m sure we could find Trump criticizing some of this support anyway)!
If ever there was a real wake up call for the EU and Europe as a whole, this is it.
That kind of question would escalate from being disrespectful to a declaration war in Trumps mind.
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The Finns have previous experience of Russki Mir, and no thanks, they have no wish to repeat it. I've worked with several Finnlander's, and to a man, they do not trust Russians in general, or the Kremlin, in particular, and are prepared for any future Russian adventures. Guns are an everyday part of Finnlander's lives, they are taught very early how to use guns, and part of this is because they don't trust Russia or Russians. Hence the application and subsequent acceptance by NATO for membership. Rightly so, pity Ukraine did not apply for membership when the other Ex USSR states did.
