To maintain the population the birth rate has to be 2.3.
We face a very challenging problem. What should we do?
How do we encourage Irish women to have more children?
Within this newest generation they are facing population collapse.
So you can't name any Irish culture that is dying? So pretty much alarmist hyperbole.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0618/1455322-gaa-continues-to-experience-global-growth/
Over the last 10 years, there has been an almost 100% rise in the number of GAA clubs operating outside of Ireland, with more than 500 now in existence across the international units.
I assume this makes you very irate given the bloody Irish pushing their culture onto the world.
Wonder if there will ever be a topic of discussion where immigrants aren't ushered to the front and centre of the problem. Housing crisis? Blame immigration. Crime? Blame immigration. Cost of living? Blame immigration. Problems with tourism in Ireland? Blame immigration. Irish couples aren't banging out 3 to 4 kids minimum anymore? Blame immigration. Culture is changing? Blame all the other things that caused far more profound cultural changes in Ireland such as changing attitudes towards religion, urbanisation, the impact of American and British culture, the rise of technology in the form of smartphones and social media immigration.
Or, I don't know, maybe if migrants just disappeared tomorrow then Irish people would just start making babies like there's no tomorrow and we'd be transported back to the undefined time where monoethnic Ireland was problem-free.
what else would you describe it as?
I believe they already answered you. It's alarmist hyperbole.
I'd also call it racist bullshit since you've made a direct link between this and multiculturalism.
Why should they? They don't owe the world children.
The population isn't going to collapse. This is just more of your Chicken Little shtick.
The only Irish culture is drinking?
Seriously? Borderline racist there. Would you like if I said the only traveller culture was fighting?
There's plenty of Irish culture. The GAA is one that'll start to struggle in coming years - it's understandably dominated by Irish people, being part of our culture. Our language is another - it's well on the way to being an optional language on the school curriculum. Ireland is generally a very tolerant culture - other incoming cultures are much more intolerant. Our food and our shared cultural memories and our music and so on - all part of our culture.
It's fairly clear when you travel to other countries that their culture is different to ours in many ways - but are you saying you can't see the difference between being in Norway or the US or being in India for example? Do you think there's no difference between an Irish football fan abroad and an English football fan for example? (Most of the world with experience of the two would absolutely say there's a huge difference) But that's what your comment implies, and is clearly not the case.
If we are in a scenario today where there is not enough housing available why would we want the population to keep on increasing ?
If we rebranded the housing shortage as a population excess then all of a sudden a falling birth rate is a good thing.
Pension funding in the future is obviously going to be a challenge, that was going to be the case anyway, so there will just have to be taxation increases and changes that may be unpopular, such as the re-introduction of third level fee's to balance the books.
The birth rate has indeed been falling for decades. And actually from a sustainability point of view, that's a good thing - provided we acknowledge it and live with a more stable population (which we're not doing).
But do you really think pricing young people out of homes has no impact on birth rate? Do you not think that can exacerbate a natural decline? Really?
I dont get this at all.
My wife and I both work permanent jobs.
We dont have any relations close by, that can help us on a regular basis
We have 2 kids - 1 in creche and the other in afterschool.
Both of these are massively subsidised by the government. Every year they seem to get cheaper. You just need to be organised when looking to get your child a slot.
If the kids are sick, we take turns taking a day off of work.
It is most definitely hyperbole. Claiming government policy is cause the drop in the birth rate is laughable. The birth rate has been falling for decades. How many kids do you have? you parents? Grandparents? For the vast majority, there's a significantly decline across those generations.
Not only that, but a large part of the population growth is immigration. So you'd need to know rate among those the irish population to make and claims of irish cultural specifically.
They need to see having a family isn't a burden.
Or, and this might blow you mind, you need to see that having children is not an obligation.
Huh?
The last policy saw mass emigration and mass unemployment, negative equity and bull dozing of housing estates.
Also what culture?
The only "Irish Culture" that seems to decreasing is drinking.
What specific culture are you suggesting is dying?
This is the messaging I'm talking about. We should embrace the positives children bring, not paint them as hard word and a negative. Our children and youth literally are our future, and we need to encourage that mindset.
So what you're saying is that there will be no young people.
Whereas what will really happen is that there will be slightly less young people. Because this isn't an extinction level event.
BTW, for over a hundred years our population dropped until the 90's. And (un)surprisingly, we're still here.
People point to housing, cost of childcare etc for a falling birthrate but while important I think it misses the main reason. Children are work, very hard work and to add to that massive expectations and requirements are placed on modern parents. It's not like years ago when parents could let children essentially rear themselves.
Couples know that children place a massive burden and limitation on their own freedom. Even if the state provided completely free childcare, the birthrate would be much the same.
But to call it "cultural genocide" is alarmist hyperbole.
I don't agree. A policy which actively hinders people having kids and contributes to a culture dying out - what else would you describe it as?
…patience op, just wait till a sh1te load of us start retiring, and we then end up with too many retirees in the country, compared to workers, then the fun will begin!
…we re not gonna encourage people to have more kids, that ship has sank, the only real solution is immigration, but shur best of luck encouraging that one now!
The governments current housing policy is a direct result of a policy that helped bankrupt the state.
It wasn't very long ago we were bulldozing housing estates.
Now the main quick solution is to dismantle some of the guardrails that were put to place to prevent another bubble.
And in some ways this is catered for in the current programme for government with more ambitious housing targets, to achieve these we will need workers from abroad willing to come here.
Agree with this.
The government's housing policy is a form of cultural genocide. If young people can't afford - or even find - a house, they're going to have fewer (if any) children. It mightn't lift the rate up to 2.1 (which is replacement, not 2.3) but it would certainly help.
It's a quiet national scandal really. Killing culture in the name of multi-culturalism. You couldn't really make it up.
On the money as always.
Young people need hope, they need to believe in having a future in the country. They need to believe home ownership or even long term affordable rentals are attainable. They need to see having a family isn't a burden. It's all about messaging and having achievable goals. Also the importance of family and roots in a community also need to be nutured.
Personally think Ireland is lost, people have lost sight of what is important, family and health. Solve these issues and people will have more children.
TBF to the past government they have invested a lot in subsidies for children, increasing children's allowance, pre school subsidies, free meals and books, etc. We also have pretty generous maternity and paternity leave. The pay rates maybe need to be looked at.
We also have a work culture that is pretty sympathetic to time off in the main.
More needs to be done, but that will probably require cuts elsewhere or a rise in taxation.
There was always going to be a changeover from banning women from the Civil Service once they got married to where we are now.
I know many people who would have loved to have a 3rd kid or more,
But the expense of it
Crèche can be more than a mortgage!
Lack of parental sick days to cover the kids getting sick
The price of just surviving, nevermind living is through the rough.
You mean, another million foreigners.
We heard the same thing when the Polish started to arrive 25 odd years. It was nonsense then and remains so.
The largest cohort of our Immigrants are Irish returning our 2nd are from the UK.
Many of them 2nd and 3rd generation Irish.
Our birth rate is above the EU average which is lower than historical primarily driven because women don't want to be treated like cattle anymore.
It's increasing but artifically so through the wholesale importing of refugees and asylum seekers who then (once they stay long enough and get citizenship - because that's all you need to do in this country!) bring the rest of the family with them.
That's fine except that evidence elsewhere suggests that these refugees will be generally less productive than the locals and more likely to be a drain on the public purse than a benefit, and so while they may have more kids (as historically our own welfare class do), the natives who are paying for all this and struggling to provide for themselves never mind (potential) offspring are left behind.
None of this matters of course if you are a globalist or see nationality and identity as a "bad thing" to be diluted in favour of the multiculturalism idea(l)/ideology, but even though this country is changing rapidly in the last 5/6 years in particular, it's not particularly for the better.
Not all of that is the fault of inward migration of course, but the pressure it's putting on a society that was already unable (for various reasons) to deal with long-standing social, economic and infrastructural issues has been immense and the negative effects - division, polarisation, stretched resources and favouritism/bypassing of rules others must abide by, out-of-touch politicians playing to this demographic for kudos internationally rather than dealing with the aforementioned existing problems, etc etc - mean that the natives are even further discouraged to start families or even remain in the country in some/many cases.
The problem now is that this shift is irrevesible and gathering pace thanks to short-sightedness, greed and inertia. In anoher decade or two many of us won't recognise the country we grew up in because of all of the above mentioned issues and problem that will be exacerbated as time goes on and the failure to properly address it when we had the chance.
To maintain the population the birth rate has to be 2.3.We face a very challenging problem. What should we do?
Invite Elon Musk here if he ever falls out with Trump. He'd have half the women of Ireland up the duff in jig time. Plus he could sort this out in his spare time
We should encourage the right people to have children... that being workers, young working couples before they need IVF
But that would take a major shift in several policies, the big issue is House prices. House prices are unsustainable, many working couple living with parents. They earn too much to get council properties or affordable property but have to save well into their 30's to get a house by which time fertility rates drops
Recently in Dublin 2300 applied for 46 apartment's in Dublin for "key" workers. I'd love to see how many people who never contributed to society in a meaningful way got council property in Dublin areas that would be ideal for workers to live in.
Young workers commute 100's of KM a day because they can only barely afford homes in Carlow and are stressed to bit saving to cover costs while planning for kids they can't afford. Or they are living in mum and dads box-room before taking on the lifetime commute.
Young working people are screwed in this county, unfortunately they are not in a position to screw each other and make more future workers.
Did your previous proposal to keep women back in the home, barefoot and pregnant, not catch on?
The population is increasing. Check the census figures for the last few.
Only here for procreation as a species. If ya don't you die out.
Of the people in my work circle, the majority who had children had them in their late 30s or older. Some of the men were in their 50s and women early-mid forties. When you start having children at this age, you'll be having one or two. As someone who was born into this scenario, the upside is that your parents will tend to be relatively financially comfortable but there are big downsides too. You can easily end up dealing with illness and death of parents before you've come close to establishing a career and life for yourself. This affects your own ability to have children.
This "replacement" theory of yours…
Do tell us more and by the way, what's your favourite colour?
